Force Sub Winter 1941, Russian Tanks vs Mechs (part II)

[MKSheppard]

In the same time the Magella shoots double the distance.

Did you not READ my list:

HEF indirect 10000 m

Wow, High Explosive, FRAGMENTATION!

Your mecha will be shredded by tungsten darts!

[MKSheppard]

Sorry, nothing you say is going to make a difference here. It was shown on screen. Therefore it's canon. Therefore we take it as truth.

Even when Canon violates the laws of physics? Even when you have to hold
up a blatantly disreputable site (FAS.ORG) as a source?

[MKSheppard]

At extreme ranges, nothing is direct fire.

You have to superelevate the gun to an angle, so that
the round DROPS onto the target.

[Sea Skimmer]

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/index.html

Independent sight out of fas.org, this guy seems to specialise in detailing Russian armoured vehicles, his stats are the same (in fact I suspect copied straight off fas.org).

Sorry. All I can say here is eat it. You've lost this one. The Magella cannon demonstrated the ability to do aimed fire at double the range of the T90's cannon.

Furthermore, it is stated that the Magella only carries KE penetrator rounds. Presume it's APDSDS, and suddenly the Magella shoots literally double and then some further than your precious T90.

Against targets with twenty times the cross section. Real impressive, except the T-90 can also hit small apartment buildings at up to 10 klicks with its HE round. We've also established that the mecha must have extramly light armor, which would easily make a full sized HE round effective.

And we've also long ago proven that the round can't actually hurt the tank due because it would shatter on both from the ERA and or the RHA plating, and would have to be extramly small further limiting its effectiveness.

So fuckoff fanwhore.

[Dendrobius]

I didn't hold fas up as a source. I held you!

Your table said that no direct fire goes over 5000 metres for the T90. Indirect fire was available for that range.

I told you that we saw a Magella cannon do direct fire at 10km range And when I said direct fire, you did NOT SEE THE ROUND DROP.

As I said, the scene was from the Gundam pilot's point of view, there WAS NO ROUND DROPPING!

And what don't you get about elementary physics? Jesus, the Magella round goes FASTER than a T90 round by a good 2 to 3 times, of course the distance is going to be fuckloads further, even AT THE SAME ELEVATION!

Your T90 goes out to 4000m with 1.8km/s muzzle. The Magella goes out to 10000m with 3.3 to 5km/s. That's actually UNDERPERFORMING!

[The Yosemite Bear]

Let's face it, they call the weapon a machine gun, yet it displays all of the characteristics of a Grenade Launcher.

They call the twin barreled, Design monstrosity a "Tank" firing "High Velocity, KE penetrators", yet thier weapons have the characteristics of an unguided ballistic, rocket.

The armour on the mecha, & Battleships breaks in a fasion consistant with Ceramic Composite.

Main Suit Fusiion Reactors show an explosion characteristics consistant more with a Hydrogen Detonation. (Since fusion reactors do use Hydrogen bunkerage, that's probly not a problem.

going by canon sources uses low grade materials

The most likely explanation is that after loosing half of their population, and the majority of their resources, the sides resorted to cheaper, materials, like ceramics etc.

[MKSheppard]

I told you that we saw a Magella cannon do direct fire at 10km range And when I said direct fire, you did NOT SEE THE ROUND DROP.

Than it's worthless. EVERYTHING DROPS AT THAT DISTANCE.

[SWPIGWANG]

1. uh.... didn't a leg shot by the very same 175mm knock out a Gundam?

And Don't Gundams have "magical" luna titanium armor that is considered god like in the OWY?

2. The Magella fires at 10klicks and MISSES

[Dendrobius]

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE FOR 10KM AIMED FIRE? IF YOU DON'T GIVE IT, YOU'LL HAVE TO CONCEDE THE POINT, I'M SORRY.

MKSheppard: Go do your maths you dolt. I'm sure you can do at least range calculations, for the same angle and the same mass higher velocity goes further!

Does your T90 need to elevate extensively to get its 4000m? No? Then my Magella doesn't need to either to get it's 10000m. Why? Because I'm travelling at 2 - 3 times your speed, that's why!

[Sea Skimmer]

I didn't hold fas up as a source. I held you!

Your table said that no direct fire goes over 5000 metres for the T90. Indirect fire was available for that range.

I told you that we saw a Magella cannon do direct fire at 10km range And when I said direct fire, you did NOT SEE THE ROUND DROP.

As I said, the scene was from the Gundam pilot's point of view, there WAS NO ROUND DROPPING!

How the fuck could you see the round period if its going 5 klicks per second from that range? Answer, you can't!

As for the rest of your crap, know what Shellform is?

[MKSheppard]

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE FOR 10KM AIMED FIRE? IF YOU DON'T GIVE IT, YOU'LL HAVE TO CONCEDE THE POINT, I'M SORRY.

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/ARM/2a46.html

Says right there, 10 km HEF with FCS

[The Yosemite Bear]

I wonder can we convince the people who made Scorched Earth to see if we can create a "Realistic" Tank vs. Mech version....

I wonder, can it calc recoil for firing a round with N~ force and calc, the recoil + mas&Stability of the platform, those with fixed positions get the best recoil daminging (But take more falling damage)....

[MKSheppard]

Does your T90 need to elevate extensively to get its 4000m? No? Then my Magella doesn't need to either to get it's 10000m. Why? Because I'm travelling at 2 - 3 times your speed, that's why!

As skimmer pointed out, if you could SEE the round moving, then
it was not 5km/sec.

And besides, you have no inkling of physics. So STFU moron.

[Dendrobius]

Three shots in the same spot penetrated the armour of the Gundam on its legs. It was an ambush, at less than 1km range, and the Gundam was stationary.

Nah, depends on which series. In Original Gundam, that magic luna titanium was obscene. In 08th MS, it's nowhere like that. Original, luna titanium didn't even scratch under 120mm Zaku fire. 08th, it blows up. I'm using 08th as my source here.

Missed? Let's see. It was an ambush, the pilot gunning just saw his entire unit go up in flames, and he was under beam rifle fire?

How can see see the round if it's going at 5km/s? EASY! THE RANGE WAS 10km. It took 2 seconds! COUNT!

[MKSheppard]

How can see see the round if it's going at 5km/s? EASY! THE RANGE WAS 10km. It took 2 seconds! COUNT!

Can't be 5 km sec if you can SEE it.

[Vympel]

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/index.html

Independent sight out of fas.org, this guy seems to specialise in detailing Russian armoured vehicles, his stats are the same (in fact I suspect copied straight off fas.org).

Sorry. All I can say here is eat it. You've lost this one. The Magella cannon demonstrated the ability to do aimed fire at double the range of the T90's cannon.

Furthermore, it is stated that the Magella only carries KE penetrator rounds. Presume it's APDSDS, and suddenly the Magella shoots literally double and then some further than your precious T90.

Fucking excuse me?! I fucking DARE you to email Vasiliy Fofanov and tell him he copied his info from that fucking cesspool that is fas. You retard.

[Sea Skimmer]

Three shots in the same spot penetrated the armour of the Gundam on its legs. It was an ambush, at less than 1km range, and the Gundam was stationary.

Nah, depends on which series. In Original Gundam, that magic luna titanium was obscene. In 08th MS, it's nowhere like that. Original, luna titanium didn't even scratch under 120mm Zaku fire. 08th, it blows up. I'm using 08th as my source here.

Missed? Let's see. It was an ambush, the pilot gunning just saw his entire unit go up in flames, and he was under beam rifle fire?

How can see see the round if it's going at 5km/s? EASY! THE RANGE WAS 10km. It took 2 seconds! COUNT!

HEY FAN WHORE, WRONG ANSWER.

You said WE DO NOT SEE THE ROUND DROP. The only way to fucking know that unless the camera followed the shells flight path is to SEE THE SHELL FROM THE POINT OF VIEW WE DID SEE. FOR YOUR FIRST CLAIME TO BE TRUE WE MUST SEE THE SHELL IN FLIGHT. THAT IS IMPOSSIBUL WITH A 5,000-METER PER SECOND ROUND. So which is going to be, though the fact that you can't go two posts without violating physics or contradicting yourself is hardly surprising.

[Dendrobius]

MKSheppard: All that says is 10000m INDIRECT FIRE. Read: lob!

The Magella cannon fired at that range in DIRECT FIRE.

The higher your elevation, the further your shot goes for a given mass and given velocity. 45 degrees is the best for range. And you say I don't know my physics? Dude, I'm an Aerospace Engineering Student, at the end of his 2nd year in university! I can make mistakes, but I'm not a complete dunderhead!

Perhaps you mistook me. I said the fire was from the Gundam pilot's view. We see the muzzle flash, we see a streak, and then we see impact. From muzzle flash to impact was around 2 seconds. The range was 10km. So it must have an AVERAGE VELOCITY of 5km/s

[MKSheppard]

Someone give this fucking moron a book on fucking WORLD WAR ONE
battleship fire.

[SAMAS]

Not only does the Magella cannon outrange the T90's badly

I've said it before.....

Specifications (2A46M-2 with T-90 FCS and autoloader):

Effective range
direct fire vs. 2m high target
HEAT 1010 m
APFSDS 2120 m
with FCS
HEAT/APFSDS 4000 m
HEF 5000 m
HEF indirect 10000 m

So you're admitting that the Magella Attack's 175 cannon can match the T90's indirect fire shells, and are at least double anything else it has, fire control or not, with it's standard direct fire shells?

So his point still stands.

[Dendrobius]

I'm just sorry that I don't know how to capture screenies from my VCD collection, or just hell as give the entire combat clip to you guys. Hell, go get Episode 8 of 08th MST!

Yes, I would dare. When his setting out for the T90's stats are in the exact same order and the exact same wording as fas.org's? Or I could be wrong, fas.org copied off him. Regardless, the information is one and the same.

Damn, it's 6:30pm here, I'm going for dinner, and study for my Fluid Mechanics exam tomorrow. Damn, this was getting interesting!

Catch you guys later.

[MKSheppard]

Damn, this was getting interesting!

Only in your pea-brained mind was it getting interesting

[Vympel]

[quote="Dendrobius"]

Yes, I would dare. When his setting out for the T90's stats are in the exact same order and the exact same wording as fas.org's? Or I could be wrong, fas.org copied off him. Regardless, the information is one and the same.[quote]

THEY copied off him.

[MKSheppard]

So his point still stands.

His point is invalid because it ignores the laws of physics as they exist in
the REAL WORLD, which is where this battle is taking place.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well you know fan boy's don't realize that people can't react to anything moving faster then 90mph, now with some uber-optics you micht be able to react to something moving at 300mph, from that far away, but if it's moving transonic, No amout of reflexes can, anticibate a round moving that fast. Now a computer controlled, Radar system, has a slight Chance of using a reactive armour or a point defense type canon.

Oh, it's physically impossible to See a round comming at that speed. anymore then it's possible for a deer to react to by Geo Metro at Highway speeds.