The Battle of Coruscant

[Dakarne]

In the essays section of the main site, there's a "Battles" Section.

I've adapted that archetype for the "Battle of Coruscant":

Objective:
•Drive off the Enemy Fleet and Rescue the Chancellor

Enemy Assets:
•Hundreds of Warships
•Sith Lord Count Dooku
•General Grievous
•Thousands of Battle Droids
•One Supreme Chancellor held hostage
•Flagship: Invisible Hand

Friendly Assets:
•Hundreds of Warships
•Two Jedi Star Fighters
•Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi
•Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker

History:
•All Dark-Side plots aside, since they wouldn’t apply with the replacements anyway…
•While the Republic fleet was engaged in battle with Separatist Warships, Anakin and Obi-Wan boarded the Invisible Hand, killed Dooku and rescued the Chancellor. The battle ended with the Separatist fleet escaping Coruscant with Grievous leading them.
•This battle was a Republic Victory due to the immense skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, supported by the well-equipped Republic fleet.

How would the Federation have fared in the Republic’s place?
•Replace the Chancellor with the Federation President.
•Shields aside: the Transporter, wouldn’t have much applied, because of the heavy jamming, they’d probably have beamed back some kind of blob.
•So a pair of Peregrine fighter pilots would have to attempt to do what the Jedi did, due to the fact that it was the Jedi’s skill which allowed for more reaction-timing and better skill, they wouldn’t have been able to board the ship in the first place. Much less face off against Count Dooku and General Grievous.
•The Federation loses.

Would the Federation have succeeded where the Separatists failed?
•Well, let’s replace the Invisible Hand with a Sovereign Class, the Chancellor is being held on the bridge. The Jedi manage to board in a similar fashion to before, and fight their way through a large number of Red Shirts to the bridge, kill/capture everyone.
•With the rescued chancellor, land (read: Crash) the Sovereign on Coruscant. Much the same as before: minus the Lightsabre battles and elevator problems

I give the Federation 0 for 2 in this instance...

[Bounty]

because of the heavy jamming, they’d probably have beamed back some kind of blob.

Not, if the transporter's jammed, you simply can't get a lock. You wouldn't know if you were beaming the President or a chicken soup vending machine.

With the rescued chancellor, land (read: Crash) the Sovereign on Coruscant.

Well, the Sovereign has escape pods right next to the bridge. They might make it off in time.

[Dakarne]

Well, the Sovereign has escape pods right next to the bridge. They might make it off in time.

Ah yes, I forgot that the Federation types wouldn't eject the escape pods, unlike Grievous.

Not, if the transporter's jammed, you simply can't get a lock. You wouldn't know if you were beaming the President or a chicken soup vending machine.

Good point...

[Darth Fanboy]

•This battle was a Republic Victory due to the immense skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, supported by the well-equipped Republic fleet.

This battle was a republic victory because the Separatist fleet was not allowed to disengage. They had been in the system for too long and if it wasn't for the "trap", assuming that the Chancellor was a target to be abducted, then the CIS fleet should have been gone hours ago. (Page 45 of the RoTS NOvelization)

How would the Federation have fared in the Republic’s place?
•Replace the Chancellor with the Federation President.
•Shields aside: the Transporter, wouldn’t have much applied, because of the heavy jamming, they’d probably have beamed back some kind of blob.
•So a pair of Peregrine fighter pilots would have to attempt to do what the Jedi did, due to the fact that it was the Jedi’s skill which allowed for more reaction-timing and better skill, they wouldn’t have been able to board the ship in the first place. Much less face off against Count Dooku and General Grievous.
•The Federation loses.

Replace the Peregrine fighter pilots with something a little more like the Jedi. Commando-trained pilots or Data or Worf. Next you have to better compare how these PEregrine fighters would do in place of Obi-Wan and Anakin's Eta-2s. Can they defeat the swarms of vulture droids, the Tri Fighters, and the Buzz Droids? If so can they take down the shield generator and open the hangar bay? Even then are the pair of Commandos/Datas capable of getting the President off of the ship before running into a Dooku and Grievous?

You cannot just type "The Federation Loses", more details necessary in order to be thorough.

Would the Federation have succeeded where the Separatists failed?
•Well, let’s replace the Invisible Hand with a Sovereign Class, the Chancellor is being held on the bridge. The Jedi manage to board in a similar fashion to before, and fight their way through a large number of Red Shirts to the bridge, kill/capture everyone.

In this case the above situation could be made irrelevant. Grievous and his Magnadroids had to go down to the planet to abduct the Chancellor while the Separatist Fleet duked it out with the Republic in space. The Feds in this case will be vastly outgunned on the ground and in space and won't even be able to abduct the chancellor.

[Dakarne]

Replace the Peregrine fighter pilots with something a little more like the Jedi. Commando-trained pilots or Data or Worf.

Data and Worf it is then.

Next you have to better compare how these PEregrine fighters would do in place of Obi-Wan and Anakin's Eta-2s.

They have both Pulse Phasers, Micro-torps and omni-directional phaser beams.

Can they defeat the swarms of vulture droids, the Tri Fighters, and the Buzz Droids?

Vulture Droids and Tri-Fighters: Depends entirely on the skill of any backup that they recieve.

Buzz Droids: Not quite sure, I know that the bumping into each other isn't going to work because of the build of the fighters... and there's no R2-D2 to zap a few... but aren't the Federation capable of pulsing their shields or some sort of Technobabble solution.

If so can they take down the shield generator and open the hangar bay?

Depends entirely on Data's reactions. We can assume that this might be possible... Even then, it was the Jedi's reactions that got them into the Hangar bay in the first place... So essentially: Data gets in, Worf gets killed trying.

And then Data has to face the many Battledroids... considering that the Jedi could deflect blaster bolts, and Data can't... I think it would be safe to assume that Data would be destroyed.

[Bounty]

Replace the Peregrine fighter pilots with something a little more like the Jedi. Commando-trained pilots or Data or Worf.

Worf has no piloting skills that I'm aware of.

Not quite sure, I know that the bumping into each other isn't going to work because of the build of the fighters...

Why's that ? Mere shuttles can survive freefall crashes, so a small bump shouldn't cause trouble.

but aren't the Federation capable of pulsing their shields or some sort of Technobabble solution

Rotate shield frequencies, and that won't do any good.

[Darth Fanboy]

Replace the Peregrine fighter pilots with something a little more like the Jedi. Commando-trained pilots or Data or Worf.

Worf has no piloting skills that I'm aware of.

He has piloted shuttles on his own in the past at least once in TNG (episode where he competes in some kind of Bat'leth tournament and gets knocked out of the proper reality/timeline/technobabble), but the main reason I mentioned him because there are wankers out there that would dare say that Worf or any other trained Klingon with a Bat'leth would mop the floor with Dooku.

[Darth Fanboy]

They have both Pulse Phasers, Micro-torps and omni-directional phaser beams.

And your point is what? We know this. But do they have the capability to traverse the space between their starting location and the Invisible Hand without getting killed?

Vulture Droids and Tri-Fighters: Depends entirely on the skill of any backup that they recieve.

Then you need to determine the Fed equivalent for the ARC-170s that accompanied them for part of the trip.

Buzz Droids: Not quite sure, I know that the bumping into each other isn't going to work because of the build of the fighters... and there's no R2-D2 to zap a few... but aren't the Federation capable of pulsing their shields or some sort of Technobabble solution.

BOunty covered this

Depends entirely on Data's reactions. We can assume that this might be possible... Even then, it was the Jedi's reactions that got them into the Hangar bay in the first place... So essentially: Data gets in, Worf gets killed trying.

Nice job of using evidence to back any of that up by the way. I have to honestly ask how you are defining "reactions" in this case.

And then Data has to face the many Battledroids... considering that the Jedi could deflect blaster bolts, and Data can't... I think it would be safe to assume that Data would be destroyed.

Im not arguing Data will win, in fact I don't think he'd even make it to the hangar. But I must ask why in the fuck would Data need to deflect the blaster shots? Is he swinging a lightsaber around? Chances are he would be engaging in firefights, meaning that you need to determine wether or not he can shoot his way through the ship.

[Bounty]

He has piloted shuttles on his own

Which, in Trekverse, comes down to tapping in your desired coordinates and pressing "Enter". Not the same as dodging fire and avoiding enemy craft.

Then you need to determine the Fed equivalent for the ARC-170s that accompanied them for part of the trip.

Size-wise, the ship above the Peregrine would be the combat runabout, but it's armament is probably weaker.

[Dakarne]

But I must ask why in the fuck would Data need to deflect the blaster shots? Is he swinging a lightsaber around? Chances are he would be engaging in firefights, meaning that you need to determine wether or not he can shoot his way through the ship.

He's outnumbered severely... and has virtually no cover except for his own downed Starfighter.

Nice job of using evidence to back any of that up by the way. I have to honestly ask how you are defining "reactions" in this case.

Simply put: Worf has shown only human reactions, Data is a machine and can make calculations as fast as a computer.

He's the only one capable of getting in, if at all.

[Noble Ire]

•Hundreds of Warships

Isn't it more like thousands of warships? I recall the number four thousand in total being thrown out at some point.

[Dakarne]

Isn't it more like thousands of warships? I recall the number four thousand in total being thrown out at some point.

Correction: Thousands, on either side... except if the federation is dealing with anything.

[Darth Fanboy]

He has piloted shuttles on his own

Which, in Trekverse, comes down to tapping in your desired coordinates and pressing "Enter". Not the same as dodging fire and avoiding enemy craft.

Nice job snipping the rest of my quote. But then again if we're going to talk about flat button controls, don't the Peregrines use that interface also?

Size-wise, the ship above the Peregrine would be the combat runabout, but it's armament is probably weaker.

I should have said "combat equivalent" instead of just "equivalent" then perhaps.

[Mange]

•Hundreds of Warships

Isn't it more like thousands of warships? I recall the number four thousand in total being thrown out at some point.

It was mentioned in one of the Post Notes (IIRC) that 5,000 capital ships and hundreds of fighters were in the battle.

[Lord Pounder]

Dump Worf for Tom Paris. Also wouldn't the Delta Flyer be closer in size to an ARC fighter?

[Lord Revan]

Dump Worf for Tom Paris. Also wouldn't the Delta Flyer be closer in size to an ARC fighter?

isn't also one (well two) of a kind, were as while rare ARC-170 aren't

[Glimmervoid]

Dump Worf for Tom Paris. Also wouldn't the Delta Flyer be closer in size to an ARC fighter?

isn't also one (well two) of a kind, were as while rare ARC-170 aren't

I thought Anakin had heavily modified his or some thing. The delta flyer (ever though it not a modified shuttle) is about as close as you can come to a federation ship that has be “customised”.

[Lord Revan]

Dump Worf for Tom Paris. Also wouldn't the Delta Flyer be closer in size to an ARC fighter?

isn't also one (well two) of a kind, were as while rare ARC-170 aren't

I thought Anakin had heavily modified his or some thing. The delta flyer (ever though it not a modified shuttle) is about as close as you can come to a federation ship that has be “customised”.

well at least in the main site page, special characters and/or ship aren't allowed.

[Darth Fanboy]

As I said earlier the main reason I suggested Worf is not for any exceptional pilot ability, but for combat purposes. Remember these guys have to be able to fight their way through to the President in the scenario. Worf sure as hell couldn't do it, but he has a better chance than your standard Fed pilot.

[Darth Wong]

Why are we even talking about Federation boarding actions at all? The Federation fleet would be annihilated if it attempted to substitute its own firepower for that of the Republic fleet. They would never get anywhere near the Invisible Hand, especially with the Separatist fleet's fighter screen. And they would have no chance of bringing down the Invisible Hand's shields.

[Wicked Pilot]

With the Federation as Seperatist scenario I wonder if Jedi are even needed. All the Republic Fleet has to do is ion the Sovereign, demand surrender, or cut through the hull and board with Clonetroopers. The Jedi can sit back at the temple and play X-Box.

Of course I wonder if Palpatine would even approve of such an operation if it involved the Federation. He's got to be worried about being accidentally vaporized by a stray turbolaser shot off some Venator.

[Lord Revan]

In fact now that come think of it even ioning the SCS is not needed as the Battle of Corusant is two phased, phase 1 is capture of Palpatine and I dout any federation commandos would able to replace Grievous and his elite in that part.

[Darth Wong]

In fact now that come think of it even ioning the SCS is not needed as the Battle of Corusant is two phased, phase 1 is capture of Palpatine and I dout any federation commandos would able to replace Grievous and his elite in that part.

Except that Palpatine was in on the plot and gave them inside information. They'd probably be able to just beam him out, as he would deliberately put himself in an exposed location and arrange for any protective jamming and distortion field equipment to be undergoing maintenance at the time.

They could get him onto a Sovereign if he wanted them to, but against a Republic fleet, the Federation fleet would be quite horribly mauled. The local forces wouldn't even need General Kenobi to return with his fleet to reinforce them. Since the Sovereign is much less prone to explosion than the older vessels, they'd probably just blow one of the warp nacelles off in order to disable the vessel, and then issue surrender demands.

[Elheru Aran]

In fact, I have to wonder if ground-based anti-space defenses would be adequate enough against an Federation incursion... /remembers the Hoth ion cannon, enjoys picture of thousands of said blasts against an Fed fleet...

[CaptJodan]

In fact, I have to wonder if ground-based anti-space defenses would be adequate enough against an Federation incursion... /remembers the Hoth ion cannon, enjoys picture of thousands of said blasts against an Fed fleet...

With that level of ion firepower, I'd seriously be worried about AM containment. I think they'd have to find another way of disabling a Fed ship, or perhaps use ions in localized places from fighters, but not the large cannons.