Yoda and The Chosen One

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Post by Guardsman Bass »

Lord Pounder wrote:Simple reason why Obi-wan would have been chosen. The Sith have returned, Anakin is heraled as the chosen one who would bring balance back to the force, the Jedi (Obi-Wan and the council in particular) assumed that Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith, Obi-Wan was the only Jedi in recent times to kill a Sith in combat so it makes sense to put them togeather.
It was still a divided council vote on whether to allow Anakin to be trained, and Yoda, both in the movie and in the novelization, expressed his strong disapproval of both training Anakin and of Anakin being trained by Obi-Wan.

Interestingly enough, according to the TPM novelization, although Windu initially said that Anakin was too old to be trained, when the Council vote came on whether to allow him to be trained or not, Windu voted for Anakin getting trained, since he was the "chosen one."
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Post by Havok »

Civil War Man wrote:
havokeff wrote:
Civil War Man wrote:As for Mace, even worse. He's downright psychologically abusive towards Anakin.
While I haven't read to much of the EU set in the Prequel days, I have to say that this seems to be an overstatement. I know that Mace distrusts Anakin's judgement, but abusive?
If you know someone who does not trust you, and they point that fact out directly to your face every time they get the chance, would you not consider them psychologically abusive?

When Anakin goes to Mace Windu and reveals the identity of the Sith Lord they've been searching for the entire war, Mace says his most gracious words to Anakin ever: "If what you are saying is true, then I will trust you." You're talking to a Jedi who has distinguished himself a million times in the war you are fighting, and you don't even trust him to tell the truth? Way to win the fucking hearts and minds, Mace.
Yeah, but isn't the reason that Mace doesn't trust Anakin, because he is constantly fucking up and using the Dark Side? He constantly disobeys Obi-Wan and shows blatant anger towards the council. And hasn't Anakin lied to the council about things before? Why should Mace trust him? But he does finally say "You will have earned my trust." Mace says that because Anakin has finally done the right thing in Mace's eyes instead of acting like a brash spoiled child like he has in the past.
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havokeff wrote:Yeah, but isn't the reason that Mace doesn't trust Anakin, because he is constantly fucking up and using the Dark Side?
Fucking up? Not really. Any fucking up Anakin did could be attributed to his lack of experience and maturity as a Padawan, and from all the sources I've seen Anakin became a very competent and highly decorated soldier during the Clone Wars. Using the Dark Side? Perhaps, but if our friendly neighborhood Vapaad-style-fighting master is concerned about people using the Dark Side, perhaps he should first look to himself. Didn't Jesus say something about removing the mote from your own eye before pointing out someone else's? Mace obviously holds Anakin to a different standard than he holds himself.
He constantly disobeys Obi-Wan and shows blatant anger towards the council.
So you wouldn't be angry at your bosses if they insulted you? Ki-Adi Mundi was a Knight while on the Jedi Council, but the others gave him the level of respect one would expect to be given to a Master. When Mace said Anakin would not be granted the title of Master, he made it very clear that although he was allowed to sit in on meetings, Anakin was not welcome there.
And hasn't Anakin lied to the council about things before?
Not that I'm aware of. If you are going to make such claims, though, you should have specific instances to back them up.
Why should Mace trust him?
I don't know...maybe because Anakin demonstrated his loyalty through his unquestioning service during the Clone Wars?
But he does finally say "You will have earned my trust." Mace says that because Anakin has finally done the right thing in Mace's eyes instead of acting like a brash spoiled child like he has in the past.
But even with that, a compliment by Mace is a backhanded compliment. Anakin, a notable Jedi Knight, had just gone to Mace Windu and said that Palpatine, Anakin's benefactor and the person responsible for his placement on the Council, had confessed to being a Sith Lord. Mace's response of "If what you say is true, then you will have earned my trust," means he did not put it beyond Anakin to deliberately tell a lie that would have put his main benefactor in jeopardy for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I think this displays the total absence of any trust on Mace's part.
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Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

Civil War Man wrote:Using the Dark Side? Perhaps, but if our friendly neighborhood Vapaad-style-fighting master is concerned about people using the Dark Side, perhaps he should first look to himself. Didn't Jesus say something about removing the mote from your own eye before pointing out someone else's? Mace obviously holds Anakin to a different standard than he holds himself.
Let's not forget that overall, the whole Jedi Council is itself moving towards Darkness, especially in ROTS. They constantly discuss removing the Chancellor. When we really get down to it, they are afraid of losing power and are quite willing to do much to keep it, a fact that Palpy tells Anakin.

At the very last moment, right before Anakin cut his wrist right off, Mace violated the last tenet of the Jedi Code. He tried to take what a Jedi on any other date would have called the "fast, easy and dark way" out by just slicing his apparently helpless opponent because the Way of the Light seemed too hard for him. Everything else he said is really rationalization. In a wierd sense, since to a Jedi giving in to the Dark Side is worse than death, it is arguable that in falling to the Dark himself, Anakin also may have saved Windu.

Oh Windu, great follower of the Light are you, and so Wise you are ...
So you wouldn't be angry at your bosses if they insulted you? Ki-Adi Mundi was a Knight while on the Jedi Council, but the others gave him the level of respect one would expect to be given to a Master. When Mace said Anakin would not be granted the title of Master, he made it very clear that although he was allowed to sit in on meetings, Anakin was not welcome there.
He wasn't even given the voting power of a Jedi Council member in the novelization. Look, Jedi Council, if you just don't want him on, why don't you fucking grow a pair of balls and say no to Palpatine... especially you, Mace, since it sometimes seems all you have are your balls.
Not that I'm aware of. If you are going to make such claims, though, you should have specific instances to back them up.
Now, let's be fair. Anakin did conceal his entire marriage, in itself a fatal violation. But I also don't know of any Mace would know about.
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Post by Civil War Man »

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Now, let's be fair. Anakin did conceal his entire marriage, in itself a fatal violation. But I also don't know of any Mace would know about.
I do concede the whole concealing his marriage thing, but the question was about Anakin actively lying to the council. Concealing the marriage was more of a "Of course I didn't tell you. You never asked." situation. Had the council confronted him concerning his marriage, and he said that he was not married to Padme, then he would have lied to the council.
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

To be fair, Obi-Wan explains to Anakin that largely the reason he does not have the rank of Master is because of his close relationship with Palpatine, who is, by the RoTS novelization, at odds with the Council. They simply can't trust Anakin on the Council; as Obi-Wan says, "That would be like giving a seat on the Council to the Chancellor himself!" It's a bit of a dilemma; they don't trust Anakin, and don't give him a seat, but by not trusting him and giving him a seat, they make it even harder to trust him by driving him toward Palpatine.
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Post by Havok »

Civil War Man wrote:
Fucking up? Not really. Any fucking up Anakin did could be attributed to his lack of experience and maturity as a Padawan, and from all the sources I've seen Anakin became a very competent and highly decorated soldier during the Clone Wars. Using the Dark Side? Perhaps, but if our friendly neighborhood Vapaad-style-fighting master is concerned about people using the Dark Side, perhaps he should first look to himself. Didn't Jesus say something about removing the mote from your own eye before pointing out someone else's? Mace obviously holds Anakin to a different standard than he holds himself.
Well that is kinda a redundancy isn't it? An unexperianced and immature Padawan? Thats what a Padawan is, otherwise they would just be a Jedi Knight. Still, even being a Padawan is no excuse for some of the things Anakin did. As Obi-Wan said, he just didn't know his place. He obviously screwed up bad enough on occasions to have to answer to the Jedi council, as Anakin said in The Clone Wars cartoon, when he whines about being late to another lecture by the council.

No one ever questioned his worthiness as a warrior, but that is one of the last virtues of a Jedi that should be exaulted. "Wars not make one great" and all. But even though he won almost all of his battles, he seemed to constantly fail himself, by making horrible decisions and letting fear cloud his judgement.

I may be wrong on this 'cause I'm more a spirt of the law kinda guy when it comes to SW, but isn't it said that Vapaad is dangerously close to the Dark Side, but someone of Mace Windu's experiance and power could use the style without fear of succumbing to the Dark Side?
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Post by Havok »

Civil War Man wrote: Not that I'm aware of. If you are going to make such claims, though, you should have specific instances to back them up.
Well, in this you are technically correct. I'm not aware of anything that Anakin actually lied to the council about. However, his ommisions, as they were, were far worse. He fell in love and got married. He got Padme pregnant. He killed an entire villiage of Sand people, and as far as I know he didn't tell the council, only Padme and Palpatine. I haven't read all the EU stuff so there could be more. Now all of these individually are pretty bad, but when taken all together, they definetley show a pattern of bad judgement. The council and Mace in particular, may not have known the specifics of what Anakin was hiding but I'm sure they could sense that he was being secretive with them. Seems like ample reason to distrust "the boy".
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Post by Civil War Man »

havokeff wrote:Still, even being a Padawan is no excuse for some of the things Anakin did.
No more than it excuses some masters from what they did, like how they preach total obedience to the Jedi Code over everything else, then Mace Windu turning around ready and willing to kill an apparently helpless opponent because it was more expedient.
As Obi-Wan said, he just didn't know his place. He obviously screwed up bad enough on occasions to have to answer to the Jedi council, as Anakin said in The Clone Wars cartoon, when he whines about being late to another lecture by the council.
Don't know about you, but I'd resent it if a group of people who obviously didn't like me (and made no attempt to hide it) saw fit to lecture me about something or another at every possible opportunity.
No one ever questioned his worthiness as a warrior, but that is one of the last virtues of a Jedi that should be exaulted. "Wars not make one great" and all.
Of course. A lot of Jedi Masters are people who have in the past pulled a Picard and willingly let worlds burn for the sake of teachings (like the Outer Rim during the Mandalorian Wars and the Republic attack on the Ubese homeworld before that).
But even though he won almost all of his battles, he seemed to constantly fail himself, by making horrible decisions and letting fear cloud his judgement.
A large part of him failing to meet his goals is because he had unrealistically high expectations of himself. Likely a result of him being a Jedi.
I may be wrong on this 'cause I'm more a spirt of the law kinda guy when it comes to SW, but isn't it said that Vapaad is dangerously close to the Dark Side, but someone of Mace Windu's experiance and power could use the style without fear of succumbing to the Dark Side?
The Force is kind of like a negative feedback loop. The more you tap into the Dark Side, the harder it is to resist later on. The Vapaad form relies on channeling one's emotion into the fight (I believe one description was that in order to use it effectively, one needed to enjoy the battle). As a result, many people who tried to learn it, including, apparently, Mace Windu's Padawan, fell to the Dark Side.

Side note: Vapaad is a sub-form of Juyo. IIRC, Darth Maul used a similar, but different, modification of Juyo.
However, his ommisions, as they were, were far worse. He fell in love and got married. He got Padme pregnant.
Oh no. He wants to lead a normal life. How dare he!
He killed an entire villiage of Sand people, and as far as I know he didn't tell the council, only Padme and Palpatine.
Killed a village of Sand people that had kidnapped, tortured, and murdered his mother. My heart bleeds for them.

But perhaps he hid it from the Council because, I don't know, he regretted it? And the Council wouldn't give half a shit that he did regret it? Perhaps Anakin figured that they treated him badly enough when he was doing the right thing?
I haven't read all the EU stuff so there could be more. Now all of these individually are pretty bad, but when taken all together, they definetley show a pattern of bad judgement. The council and Mace in particular, may not have known the specifics of what Anakin was hiding but I'm sure they could sense that he was being secretive with them. Seems like ample reason to distrust "the boy".
So if someone is making bad judgements and not telling you about it, under no conditions should you try to sympathize with them, to talk to them about their problems, to make an effort to show to them that they can trust you? The appropriate response is to say "Fuck you, now do my bidding" and then say it was the Force when they turn out screwed up?
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Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

havokeff wrote:I may be wrong on this 'cause I'm more a spirt of the law kinda guy when it comes to SW, but isn't it said that Vapaad is dangerously close to the Dark Side, but someone of Mace Windu's experiance and power could use the style without fear of succumbing to the Dark Side?
Actually, it involves drawing on the Dark Side. When you strip it of Stover-style rhetoric, Mace really uses Vaapad because he cannot achieve the Astralogical Reliability required of a Jedi in combat conditions - a fact he as much as admits to Obi-Wan right before Obi-Wan is sent off to fight Grievous.

As for Vaapad (concentrating on the astral rather than the physically visible swordplay), it sounds like what he does is try to isolate the Dark Side into a certain path, like nuclear radiation while drawing it. Every other person we know of failed cleanly. Do you really think Windu is so much better than they are that he really came off completely uncontaminated from the attempt? Especially when you see his last act?

Sometimes, I wonder how did that turd ever make Master, let alone sit on the Council? Yes, he's got a nice good induction so he has plenty of power, and he got that neat Shatterpoint ability. But he lacks wisdom (his idiotic tactics at AOTC and his impulsive gamble against Palpy at ROTS proved this) and he lacks astralogical reliability, ultimately worsened by his attempt to use Vaapad to compensate for it.
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
As for Vaapad (concentrating on the astral rather than the physically visible swordplay), it sounds like what he does is try to isolate the Dark Side into a certain path, like nuclear radiation while drawing it. Every other person we know of failed cleanly. Do you really think Windu is so much better than they are that he really came off completely uncontaminated from the attempt? Especially when you see his last act?
The Vaapad was highly effective against Palpatine in doing what it was supposed to do; channeling darkness through Mace's body as part of the attack, including the reflection of the Dark Force lightning that Palpatine was producing before Windu's lightsaber arm was hacked off. Moreover, it's somewhat questionable that his use of Vaapad was the reason for his choice to kill Palpatine; He had wanted to remove Palpatine by force for some time before, and the RoTS novelization makes it clear that Anakin's news that Palpatine is Sidious has utterly devastated him, on the inside.
Sometimes, I wonder how did that turd ever make Master, let alone sit on the Council? Yes, he's got a nice good induction so he has plenty of power, and he got that neat Shatterpoint ability. But he lacks wisdom (his idiotic tactics at AOTC and his impulsive gamble against Palpy at ROTS proved this) and he lacks astralogical reliability, ultimately worsened by his attempt to use Vaapad to compensate for it.
Although his anger is clearly a problem, the RoTS book makes it clear that he has learned how to avoid the problems of his darkness. Furthermore, he is a strong supporter of the Republic, and his Shatterpoint ability was highly effective before the descent of the Clouding of the Force by the Dark side.

As for his attack on Palpatine, it was not just some impulsive attack; the entire operation had been planned out. Yoda was to leave for Kashykk to draw out the Sith Lord, which Windu and the other three Jedi Swordsmasters would then take out. In fact, after Anakin's revelation, in the novelization Windu confers with Yoda, the head of the Order, so his choice to attack Palpatine was hardly 'impulsive.' They just weren't counting on the Sith Lord being so powerful, and Anakin choosing to side with the Sith against the Jedi.
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Post by Mark S »

Couple things:

I suppose an example of Anakin lying directly to the Council would be with his actions in killing Dooku. He would have had to make a report himself at somepoint and would not have told them that he had killed an unarmed prisoner. He would have lied in the report and made something else up like Palpatine suggested.

Windu may have gotten to the head of the council by being as powerful as he is and simply keeping his mouth shut. He sits there looking wise on the council, scowling and nodding his head, saying one or two words, and asking what everyone else thinks. When it comes to the battle in AOTC he can't do that.
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Post by Civil War Man »

Mark S wrote:I suppose an example of Anakin lying directly to the Council would be with his actions in killing Dooku. He would have had to make a report himself at somepoint and would not have told them that he had killed an unarmed prisoner. He would have lied in the report and made something else up like Palpatine suggested.
"...After Master Kenobi was incapacitated, Count Dooku and I fought one on one, at which point I was forced to kill him."

Point out one lie in that statement.
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Post by DrkHelmet »

Civil War Man wrote: "...After Master Kenobi was incapacitated, Count Dooku and I fought one on one, at which point I was forced to kill him."

Point out one lie in that statement.
There you go.
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Post by Civil War Man »

DrkHelmet wrote:
Civil War Man wrote: "...After Master Kenobi was incapacitated, Count Dooku and I fought one on one, at which point I was forced to kill him."

Point out one lie in that statement.
There you go.
Incorrect. Palpatine pressured Anakin into killing Dooku. In that respect, he was forced.
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Post by DrkHelmet »

Civil War Man wrote: Incorrect. Palpatine pressured Anakin into killing Dooku. In that respect, he was forced.
To quote a wise old man:

"What I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

Our points of view differ. Pressure may equal force, but it does not equal irresistable force. You imply by that statement that there was no other way besides killing him.
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Post by Civil War Man »

DrkHelmet wrote:To quote a wise old man:

"What I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

Our points of view differ. Pressure may equal force, but it does not equal irresistable force. You imply by that statement that there was no other way besides killing him.
It's true. Points of view differ. You know whose point of view I was channeling? Anakin's. You know, the guy who would say it.

The statement is a page right out of Palpatine's MO. You tell the truth, but that doesn't mean you be honest. The statement simply said, "I was forced to kill him." It does not mention that it was done to a helpless opponent or that it only took a little verbal persuasion from the Chancellor to push him that far (side note: Anakin immediately regretted the murder afterwards), but neither does it try to claim that either of those aren't true.
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Post by DrkHelmet »

Civil War Man wrote: It's true. Points of view differ. You know whose point of view I was channeling? Anakin's. You know, the guy who would say it.
Whereas I was channeling how the council would feel about it.
The statement is a page right out of Palpatine's MO. You tell the truth, but that doesn't mean you be honest. The statement simply said, "I was forced to kill him." It does not mention that it was done to a helpless opponent or that it only took a little verbal persuasion from the Chancellor to push him that far (side note: Anakin immediately regretted the murder afterwards), but neither does it try to claim that either of those aren't true.
I can't argue with that.
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Post by Civil War Man »

DrkHelmet wrote:
Civil War Man wrote: It's true. Points of view differ. You know whose point of view I was channeling? Anakin's. You know, the guy who would say it.
Whereas I was channeling how the council would feel about it.
1) That assumes the Council knew that Anakin had Dooku helpless and killed him anyway, and there's no evidence of that, AFAIK.

2) It's been a while since I've seen ROTS, but my impression of Mace Windu's reaction to Dooku being dead was "Good, the fucker's dead. We'll deal with Grievous later. Anyone want a soda? I'm gonna go get a soda."
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Admiral Drason wrote:I think its harsh to say Obi-wan had brushed the Dark Side just because he lost his cool when Qui Gon died.

He lost his cool that dosent mean he actually brushed the dark side. I mean the kid just lost his father like figure and he knows he has to fight a Sith Lord. I dont think any Padawan would have done any better in the face of those events.
Nitpick: StarWars.com verifies Obi-Wan's brushing of the dark side.
StarWars.com wrote:When the Jedi became separated, Maul killed Qui-Gon with a well-placed saber strike. Kenobi, enraged, attacked Maul. This barrage was deflected by Maul who used Obi-Wan's touching of the dark side as a conduit for a Force attack; using the Force, Maul pushed Obi-Wan into a deep mining pit.
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Post by GeneralTacticus »

Civil War Man wrote: 1) That assumes the Council knew that Anakin had Dooku helpless and killed him anyway, and there's no evidence of that, AFAIK.

2) It's been a while since I've seen ROTS, but my impression of Mace Windu's reaction to Dooku being dead was "Good, the fucker's dead. We'll deal with Grievous later. Anyone want a soda? I'm gonna go get a soda."
Not sure about the film, but the novelisation has Mace reacting along the lines of "Best news in I don't know how long". Hell, it has Mace bringing up Dooku when he's arguing with Anakin over whether to kill Palpatine:
Rots novelisation, page 334, wrote:Mace yanked his arm free. "He's too dangerous to be left alive. If you could have taken Dooku alive, would you have?"
"The bird let out a slow chicken cackle. It sounded like a chicken, but in her heart she knew it wasn't. In that instant, she completely understood the concept of a chicken that was not a chicken. This looked like a chicken, like most of the Mud People's chickens. But this was no chicken.

"This was evil manifest."

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Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

Guardsman Bass wrote:The Vaapad was highly effective against Palpatine in doing what it was supposed to do; channeling darkness through Mace's body as part of the attack, including the reflection of the Dark Force lightning that Palpatine was producing before Windu's lightsaber arm was hacked off.
I'm not denying it was effective. I hadn't yet decided whether to throw in with the "Palpy threw the fight" camp or not, but Mace definitely came as close as anybody to killing Palpy until ROTJ at least.
Moreover, it's somewhat questionable that his use of Vaapad was the reason for his choice to kill Palpatine;
I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt by thinking that it was the subtle contamination of Vaapad that influenced his hand.
He had wanted to remove Palpatine by force for some time before, and the RoTS novelization makes it clear that Anakin's news that Palpatine is Sidious has utterly devastated him, on the inside.
Yes, I know. That attachment, in itself, is supposedly against the Jedi principals.
Although his anger is clearly a problem, the RoTS book makes it clear that he has learned how to avoid the problems of his darkness.
I won't have called his Vaapad solution a real one. It seems like more a form of escape, an abandonment of Jedi ideals to say the least. Even he knows it, he describes it as "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."
Furthermore, he is a strong supporter of the Republic,
That would be fine except he has an attachment, as the novel makes clear. The film went to an effort to analogize Windu vs Palpy with Anakin vs Dooku, and in the novel, the parallel is further increased. One loves the Republic, the other has a more personal love. Both wind up being played by Palpy for fools.
and his Shatterpoint ability was highly effective before the descent of the Clouding of the Force by the Dark side.
A nice trick does not a Master make.
As for his attack on Palpatine, it was not just some impulsive attack; the entire operation had been planned out. Yoda was to leave for Kashykk to draw out the Sith Lord, which Windu and the other three Jedi Swordsmasters would then take out. In fact, after Anakin's revelation, in the novelization Windu confers with Yoda, the head of the Order, so his choice to attack Palpatine was hardly 'impulsive.' They just weren't counting on the Sith Lord being so powerful, and Anakin choosing to side with the Sith against the Jedi.
Note that in the novel, how Mace dealt with Anakin's bit of news was quite different from the film - the distrust of Anakin in the film wasn't present in the novel version. Regardless, I'd withdraw that one, since other people were also in it. However:

Overall, the plan is hasty, and the most surprising thing is that Yoda went along with it. He actually already saw the danger of moving quickly all the way back at P.128 (hardcover). But their fear of the Sith (remember Jedi, no fear) moved them fast into active motion, pushed by Windu (he was obviously the Hawk of all this).

As for the idea to immediately grab Sidious after they knew he was Palpy (in the novel, Mace trusts Anakin - at least according to Stover's astral analysis of Windu), I can only describe as foolhardy.

Consider:
1) The guy is clearer a bigger threat than imagined because he can be one foot away from the Jedi and they never got him.
2) He's no longer an elusive target - they know where he is. To retain his hard-won political advantage, Palpy must stay around in sight. So a hasty attack is no longer as vital.
3) He got the legal advantage (a hilltop the Jedi never tried to take for themselves and it is way too late now), but he has also hyped up the Jedi appropriately during the war . Even Palpy can't reverse from supporting to totally discrediting the Jedi in one night.
4) He's in even more direct control than they thought.

So they went. The film actually saved Mace some face by cutting the conversation short. Instead, in the novel, we hear Palpy casually maintaining his legal advantage. Mace didn't even try to refute. The supposedly had most of the evidence already - why doesn't he even try and throw it in Palpy's face. Even if he had succeeded, he would have some explaining to do - of course, he has already decided to take control of the Senate.

The attack was clearly hasty. The clearest sign is in their contingency planning for failure. Surely they knew that failure meant the annihilation of all above-ground elements of the Jedi Order, yet apparently zero planning had been done for this. There is only a hasty order to arm the Padawans and lock the doors - not a whole lot of good that would do against the determined attack that would come after a failure. The rest of their assets (even Obi-Wan, may I add) was left completely hanging out in the open, perfectly in the sights of clonetroopers. If they had delayed for even two hours warning (say by sending the secret codes for disperse right after Grievous was killed and then waiting two hours), a lot more Jedi might have been able to hide out.
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Civil War Man
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Post by Civil War Man »

GeneralTacticus wrote:
Rots novelisation, page 334, wrote:Mace yanked his arm free. "He's too dangerous to be left alive. If you could have taken Dooku alive, would you have?"
I didn't know about this line (since I don't have the novelization), but I definitely would have brought it up if I did.

Apparently the sentence I constructed for Anakin so he could tell the Council what happened without either elaborating or lying was used, as I notice Windu specifically used the word "could". It would seem that Anakin did tell the Council that he was forced to kill Dooku, and no doubt the masters were all too eager to believe him.
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