Force Sub Winter 1941, Russian Tanks vs Mechs (part II)

[MKSheppard]

If it crosses 10km in 2 seconds in the anime, the shot does 5km/sec.

Even if you can see it? What is more canonical?

[SirNitram]

If it crosses 10km in 2 seconds in the anime, the shot does 5km/sec.

Even if you can see it? What is more canonical?

The show, not what you think should happen in the show. Really, this is a SAMAS trick from the Pokemon threads, I would expect better from you.

[Vympel]

Mechas are owned, I'm tired of this

1- Mechas are vulnerable to 120mm 'machine guns'. The absence of recoil indicates low velocity- hardly up to the performance of a modern 120mm or 125mm main gun. Sorry, mechas lose. This has been repeatedly pointed out and they keep dodging it.

2- A mecha withstood a 175mm 'high velocity' round at point blank. It doesn't matter what the 'fluff' calls it, because it can't have been very high velocity or very heavy if it couldn't bull through armor that a low velocity 120mm 'machine gun' can.

3- A mecha is a MUCH bigger target. The notion that a Mecha could snipe at a 2m tall target from 10km away is utterly ludicrous and devoid of any common sense. If it did hit, it would have absolutely no effect on the T-90s ERA and composite armor. In any scenario the T-90s will be firing earlier and will hit more often.

4- the armor is 'super tensile steel'. Which sucks. Not a chance in hell of withstanding a modern APFSDS round (tungsten or depleted uranium), and going by height to weight ratio it is much thinner than the frontal armor of any modern generation tank.

It's not our fault mechas are a stupid idea.

[Sea Skimmer]

I will point out Sheppard and those on his side are being blatantly and stupidly bias in their claims of 'violates physics! Can't work! We win!'.

Then explain how you can see a 5 km/sec round WITH THE NAKED EYE....

Unless it isn't 5 km /sec....

The shot was slowed down?

If it crosses 10km in 2 seconds in the anime, the shot does 5km/sec. It is the height of dishonest debating to declare things that don't always fit in physics to be invalid. This is the sort of thing I expect from Dark Star, not ASVSers.

The end result doesnt fit with other established information. Combind with the anti physics effect and I see pleanty of reason to disregard it.

[MKSheppard]

The show, not what you think should happen in the show. Really, this is a SAMAS trick from the Pokemon threads, I would expect better from you.

Go tell wong this. I seem to recall him bashing the mecha over the
impossibility of blowing up a mountain...

[SirNitram]

Then explain how you can see a 5 km/sec round WITH THE NAKED EYE....

Unless it isn't 5 km /sec....

The shot was slowed down?

If it crosses 10km in 2 seconds in the anime, the shot does 5km/sec. It is the height of dishonest debating to declare things that don't always fit in physics to be invalid. This is the sort of thing I expect from Dark Star, not ASVSers.

The end result doesnt fit with other established information. Combind with the anti physics effect and I see pleanty of reason to disregard it.

If it can be established to be a YAMI, no problem. I am simply pointing out extremely dishonest tactics being used.

[MKSheppard]

Go tell wong this. I seem to recall him bashing the mecha over the
impossibility of blowing up a mountain...

By Wong:
Moreover, this "mountain" is obviously much smaller than it looks. The fact that the top half doesn't crack and fall down into the cavity proves that it cannot be a full-sized mountain. I suggest you go back and learn some more basic physics, SAMAS. Also note the lack of damage to the surrounding terrain; the kind of yield necessary to blow a hole through a full-sized mountain would incinerate most of the vegetation in the area.

.....

OK, let's say 25 cubic km of rock was actually blasted away. Explain:

1) Why the top part of the mountain is not falling down. Do you realize that the only way to reconcile this with physics is to conclude that it's ultralight, and not made of rock at all?

2) The energy requirement for vapourizing 25 cubic km of rock is roughly 150 gigatons. This would cause GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EFFECTS and wipe out all vegetation for hundreds of kilometres in every direction. So no, the fact that they were supposedly a few km away doesn't mean shit.

3) I asked SAMAS how long this fireball lasted, and I explained why this is important. He has failed to answer.

Sorry, but you can't pick and choose which pieces of science you're going to apply. You can't generate an energy estimate based on a series of assumptions while ignoring all of the side-effects of that energy, or indeed, the physical structure of rock (you have indicated that you are studying materials science; do the math on that piece of mountain holding together despite that overhang if it's made of rock). Is it an optical illusion? Is the scaling wrong on the foreground object? Is the mountain made of styrofoam? One way or another, there's a GIGANTIC problem with this scene as described, and any claims on what happened are falsified by the fact that they have predictive aspects, and those predictions don't come true.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I will point out Sheppard and those on his side are being blatantly and stupidly bias in their claims of 'violates physics! Can't work! We win!'.

Then explain how you can see a 5 km/sec round WITH THE NAKED EYE....

Unless it isn't 5 km /sec....

The shot was slowed down?

If it crosses 10km in 2 seconds in the anime, the shot does 5km/sec. It is the height of dishonest debating to declare things that don't always fit in physics to be invalid. This is the sort of thing I expect from Dark Star, not ASVSers.

You had better post a formal oppology to Mr. Wong then, I do believe you just compared him to the unmentionable.

and include lots of groveling,

or discover that I can indeed cut and past a certian lengthy document of ASVS tradition and Infamy.

[Sea Skimmer]

The show, not what you think should happen in the show. Really, this is a SAMAS trick from the Pokemon threads, I would expect better from you.

Go tell wong this. I seem to recall him bashing the mecha over the
impossibility of blowing up a mountain...

Yeah, because it didn't add up in any way shape or form. Same thing with this gun velocity. Doesn’t work with anything.

[MKSheppard]

Yeah, because it didn't add up in any way shape or form. Same thing with this gun velocity. Doesn’t work with anything.

Acccording to Nitram, it's OK for Wong to disprove the mountain shot,
but not for us to disprove the 5km/sec shot?

[MKSheppard]

We all know how anime fucks over time:

for example: deaths that last 1/2 second in the real world,
are spread out to 30 seconds (IE, you can see the shot that
kills you grow larger, etc), and you see the same action
repeated 5 times in a row from different angles.

[SirNitram]

This passes for logic?

I don't see Mike saying the mountain didn't get a hole blown out of it. This is, of course, what I see being claimed by Sheppard in regards to the 10km shot.

I'm sorry, but simply saying 'Wong did this' isn't anything but an appeal to authority. I'm pretty sure he would say the same thing.

A shot traveled from it's launch point, to it's target 10km away, in two seconds. This is what we see. Unless there's a YAMI rule, you can't just handwave such things away.

[The Yosemite Bear]

ok I posted this back when the first thread was in it's first five pages.

The rounds can not be Transonic because:

1. People survived being in the general area of the battle without loosing their hearing. (You want to figure out the damage to ears of a few hundred sonic booms a minute)

2. Also as per canon. the weapons, possess all of the inaccuracy, and slow speed, of a rapid fire grenade launcher, furthermore, the rounds explode like a gernade launcher (IT LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING DUCK, Nitram)

3. Rounds can be seen and defected by shields, even with computer controls the human nervous system can't cope with an object moving faster the 90mph, so with some fancy computers, I would concede 300mph for an object that size. Thus the rounds had to be moving much slower.

4. Mountings and recoil, plus space use. Since most of the service was designed for use in space, where the multi-thrusters, actually make some sense, the rounds would have to be of a very low intial velocity, in order to avoid recoil, and interia, as well as arms arn't exactly the smartest mounting points in existance.

[MKSheppard]

A shot traveled from it's launch point, to it's target 10km away, in two seconds. This is what we see. Unless there's a YAMI rule, you can't just handwave such things away.

Except you can see the fucking shot move. It is NOT transonic, because
you can see it.

If it was TRULY transonic, as SAMAS and Nitram claim, this would happen;

The Mecha blows up in a fiery roman candle suddenly, and a few seconds
later, the crack of the shot reaches the mech...

[Sea Skimmer]

This passes for logic?

I don't see Mike saying the mountain didn't get a hole blown out of it. This is, of course, what I see being claimed by Sheppard in regards to the 10km shot.

I'm sorry, but simply saying 'Wong did this' isn't anything but an appeal to authority. I'm pretty sure he would say the same thing.

A shot traveled from it's launch point, to it's target 10km away, in two seconds. This is what we see. Unless there's a YAMI rule, you can't just handwave such things away.

Wong destroyed the notion that it could acutely be a real full sized rock mountain, not that a hole got blown in something.
We've destroyed the notion that this shot could be a large extremely fast penatraitor for a half dozen reasons, not that something shot something.

Same thing.

[Vympel]

This passes for logic?

I don't see Mike saying the mountain didn't get a hole blown out of it. This is, of course, what I see being claimed by Sheppard in regards to the 10km shot.

I'm sorry, but simply saying 'Wong did this' isn't anything but an appeal to authority. I'm pretty sure he would say the same thing.

A shot traveled from it's launch point, to it's target 10km away, in two seconds. This is what we see. Unless there's a YAMI rule, you can't just handwave such things away.

Wong destroyed the notion that it could acutely be a real full sized rock mountain, not that a hole got blown in something.
We've destroyed the notion that this shot could be a large extremely fast penatraitor for a half dozen reasons, not that something shot something.

Same thing.

I'm surprised the difference had to be pointed out.

[The Yosemite Bear]

*Orders Thor strike on Nitram's Present location*

[MKSheppard]

*Orders Thor strike on Nitram's Present location*

*orders B-52 arc light strike to follow up Thor Strike*

[MKSheppard]

I'm surprised the difference had to be pointed out.

I was suprised too...whoteva

[Sea Skimmer]

*Orders Thor strike on Nitram's Present location*

*orders B-52 arc light strike to follow up Thor Strike*

*Preps Rad Tank division for WIG deployment for mop up and irradiation opps.*

[MKSheppard]

*Preps Rad Tank division for WIG deployment for mop up and irradiation opps.*

*Prepares Dogbert Brigade for deployment to eradicate all MicroJacque
sources in the area after Rad Tank Division is finished*

[The Yosemite Bear]

Sends Call to power "Hippie Vans" to clean up the mess.

[Sea Skimmer]

*Preps Rad Tank division for WIG deployment for mop up and irradiation opps.*

*Prepares Dogbert Brigade for deployment to eradicate all MicroJacque
sources in the area after Rad Tank Division is finished*

*Preps armored ambulance battalion to recover injured and ACE company to bury the dead in place.*

In addition to being able to fight in high rad levels without support my Rad Tanks also have provisions for spewing out there own radioactivity in the form of cesium 137 and iodine131... I hate the damn world and design my militaries to fight accordingly.

Mabey the tanks should go in last?

[Vympel]

No TGOD!

[Sea Skimmer]

No TGOD!

This thread ceased to have a point around page 8-10. By that time we'd already destroyed the mecha. Everything else thats come up since has already been torn apart.