An interesting take on Predestination

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2005-08-23 02:08pm

Here is a post from another forum. It was posted asking, "What do you think about this....". I have a feeling that what was/will be quoted isn't from a Christian person. An interesting read though:

What does God love more than anything else in the world?

The way you answer this question could determine whether or not you believe in predestination or freewill. Let me explain. Some Christians think that God loves people more than anything else. But is this true? The Bible says God loves people a whole lot, but it says he loves himself a lot more! To give all verses relevant to this would be impossible here, but we'll consider some:
All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing [to God]. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done? (Dan. 4:35)
God loves himself so much, that all people are regarded as nothing in comparison to him. He does whatever he pleases among the men of earth, because the ultimate goal of his actions is to glorify and honor himself. This should not surprise us. God is the most important person in the universe -- it would not seem proper if he loved something he made more than he loved himself.
Why did God create us? Isaiah 43:6-7, "Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth (says the Lord), everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory."

Why did God rescue Israel from Egypt? Psalm 106:7-8, "Our fathers, when they were in Egypt, did not consider thy wonderful works . . . but rebelled against the Most High at the Red Sea. Yet he saved them for his name's sake that he might make known his mighty power."

When Israel screws up and is punished by God, why does he relent and forgive? Why does he bring them back to their own land and sprinkle them with water so they will be clean? Ezekiel 36:22-23,32 puts it like this: "Thus says the Lord God, ‘It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name . . . And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name ... and the nations will know that I am the Lord. It is not for your sake that I will act,’ says the Lord God. Let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.’"

Why did God choose a people for himself and make Israel his possession? Jeremiah 13:11, "I made the whole house of Israel . . . cling to me, says the Lord, that they might be for me a people, a name, a praise and a glory."

What is the purpose of Christ's Second Coming? 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10, "Those who do not obey the gospel will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints and to be marveled at in all who have believed . . ."

This is why Christians always say (rightly) that we exist to glorify God. We exist to please God, to bring him joy. And he made us for this purpose because he wants to be glorified. This is why the Bible says God is a "jealous God" -- he loves his glory so much, he gets jealous when we do not worship him as we ought. And ultimately, he destroys people for not worshipping him. This only makes sense if he loves himself more than he loves people.

Once we understand that God loves himself more than he loves people, we start to put things in the right perspective. If God loves himself more than people, then he will take measures to make sure he is glorified more than he will take measures to make sure mankind has power and freedom to choose their own destiny. This does not settle the whole freewill dispute -- and I am not claiming that it does. But I have heard a lot of Christians say that God limits his power and control over the unvierse by giving people freewill. I do not think that the God of the universe, who loves himself and his power and glory more than anything is into the business of limiting himself -- especially for people! Christians will not be able to look at the issue of predestination clearly until they start their reasoning from the foundation point: that God loves his own name and glory more than he loves all of his creation.

Source: ++http://home.rochester.rr.com/matthewl/predestination/

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-08-23 02:21pm

I've always wondered why a perfect God would demand to be worshipped. I suppose Mike asks his kids to bow down to him every day.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-08-23 04:24pm

There is no interesting take on predestination. Only obtuse ones.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-08-23 04:31pm

I believe I can sum up that rather long-winded post in one simple sentence:

"God is a self-righteous prick."

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2005-08-23 04:49pm

Fascinating post. I pretty well agree with it. Hadn't really thought of it that way before, but it does seem pretty clear that it's all about HIM.

As an aside, I heard this joke the other day I got a kick out of.

Pope John Paul II gets to heaven.
St. Peter says, "Frankly, you're lucky to be here."
Pope says, "Why? What did I do wrong on earth?"
St. Peter says, "God was very angry with your stance on women becoming priests."
Pope says, "He's mad about THAT?"

St. Peter says, "She's furious."