The Best Starfleet Captains (Post TOS era)

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-26 09:54pm

So, of all the Captains or people at least in charge of a ship at one point or another, who would you consider to be the best that you saw? What reasons, what did they do?

Mine would have to be Edward Jelico and Benjamin Maxwell.

Jelico was temporarily given command of the E-D. When in charge he didn't take any insubordination from his crew and when Riker questioned his orders he imediately relieved him of his position and confined him to his quarters. Jelico didn't take any crap from his crew. He also told Troi to stop wearing the dresses and start wearing a uniform. When it came to negotiation tactics, Jelico knew it was good to START with a superior position. To do this he had bombs planted on Cardassian ships and then threatened to destroy them if the Cardassians didn't do what Jelico wanted. He had the right military mind set.

Maxwell was good because he had a reasonable grasp of tactics and strategy. He knew his enemy well enough to see what they were up to. He avoided major Cardassian resistance (they cornered him like Dukat managed to corner Tom Riker when he had the Defiant) and used maximum range multiple times to avoid enemy fire. He had a tough as nails attitude and he couldn't stand incompetent superiors.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-26 09:58pm

I agree with Alyeska, I think that Maxwell was the best.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-26 10:04pm

I agree about Jellico, but not about Maxwell. There's a difference between initiative and insubordination.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-26 10:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:I agree about Jellico, but not about Maxwell. There's a difference between initiative and insubordination.

Agreed. However even with his insubordination he was one of the best SF captains because of his skills.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-11-26 10:08pm

Maxwell was unstable. As good as his tactics were he was a danger to himself and others.

Jellico on the other hand was in complete control of the situation, I seriously doubt he has ever ran into some of the internal issues the crew of the E-D has.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-26 10:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:I agree about Jellico, but not about Maxwell. There's a difference between initiative and insubordination.

Part of the reason why I believe that Maxwell was a good officer is because Chief O'Brien liked him so much, and I trust O'Brien's judgement on the matter, because he has always seemed to be pretty competent and likeable.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-11-27 02:14am

Maxwell and Jellico get my vote as well...wonder what happened to em during the Dominion war?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-27 02:53am

Maxwell was relieved of his command in the Wounded wasn't he? I don't remember ...

Rare breed of officer he was.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2002-11-27 05:38am

Vympel wrote:Maxwell was relieved of his command in the Wounded wasn't he? I don't remember ...

Rare breed of officer he was.

I would not be surprised though if when the Dominion war broke out, they gave him a starship and pointed him in the general direction of the Cardasian boarder.....

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2002-11-27 05:43am

Though he VERY seriously had to be stopped in The Wounded. Its one thing to act in self defence. Its another to run around and more or less declare war between a forerign power and your own simply cause you suspect they are planing for a war against you. He should have simply taken his case to Starfleet command. The TNG era Federation is rather laid back in terms of getting aggressive, but with THAT level of threat (and with the blaintent supperority of Federation starships to Cardasian warships), the UFP probably would have reacted.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-27 07:57pm

Chris O'Farrell wrote:Though he VERY seriously had to be stopped in The Wounded. Its one thing to act in self defence. Its another to run around and more or less declare war between a forerign power and your own simply cause you suspect they are planing for a war against you. He should have simply taken his case to Starfleet command. The TNG era Federation is rather laid back in terms of getting aggressive, but with THAT level of threat (and with the blaintent supperority of Federation starships to Cardasian warships), the UFP probably would have reacted.

Perhaps he was trying to defect to the Maquis. If I had been in his shoes, that's what I would have tried to do.

That being said, he did need to be stopped in The Wounded. He faced a court-martial, that would almost certainly have ended with his dismissal and discharge.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-27 08:08pm

Rather hard for Maxwell wasn't it? You think the Cardies are up to no good (and he's right) but Starfleet doesn't want to lose its peace, so you go on a personal vendetta. Not the smartest tactic, but still he lost his wife to them.

Defecting to the Maquis would have tipped the balance of power for them. His crew was with them, and a ship that obliterate Galors in seconds would give the Maquis much needed punch.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-27 08:09pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Chris O'Farrell wrote:Though he VERY seriously had to be stopped in The Wounded. Its one thing to act in self defence. Its another to run around and more or less declare war between a forerign power and your own simply cause you suspect they are planing for a war against you. He should have simply taken his case to Starfleet command. The TNG era Federation is rather laid back in terms of getting aggressive, but with THAT level of threat (and with the blaintent supperority of Federation starships to Cardasian warships), the UFP probably would have reacted.
Perhaps he was trying to defect to the Maquis. If I had been in his shoes, that's what I would have tried to do.

That being said, he did need to be stopped in The Wounded. He faced a court-martial, that would almost certainly have ended with his dismissal and discharge.

The Maquis had not yet formed when Maxwell lost it. Had Maxwell waited and defected to the Maquis with the Pheonix, well we could have seen some significant plot changes in both TNG and DS9. This would represent a MAJOR point of disastifaction in the Federation and it would inspire people to defect.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-27 08:14pm

When did the Maquis officially form? When the colonists were put under Cardassian rule? In "Preemtive Strike" or were they small groups and they were truely shown in "The Maquis"?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-11-27 11:07pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Rather hard for Maxwell wasn't it? You think the Cardies are up to no good (and he's right) but Starfleet doesn't want to lose its peace, so you go on a personal vendetta. Not the smartest tactic, but still he lost his wife to them.

Defecting to the Maquis would have tipped the balance of power for them. His crew was with them, and a ship that obliterate Galors in seconds would give the Maquis much needed punch.

Hmmm that would have made an excellent story for that season. Make the Phoenix the Maquis flagship.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-27 11:10pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Rather hard for Maxwell wasn't it? You think the Cardies are up to no good (and he's right) but Starfleet doesn't want to lose its peace, so you go on a personal vendetta. Not the smartest tactic, but still he lost his wife to them.

Defecting to the Maquis would have tipped the balance of power for them. His crew was with them, and a ship that obliterate Galors in seconds would give the Maquis much needed punch.
Hmmm that would have made an excellent story for that season. Make the Phoenix the Maquis flagship.

That would have been a cool story, but Alyeska is quite obviously correct. He could not have been defecting to a group that did not yet exist. My mistake.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-28 12:23am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Rather hard for Maxwell wasn't it? You think the Cardies are up to no good (and he's right) but Starfleet doesn't want to lose its peace, so you go on a personal vendetta. Not the smartest tactic, but still he lost his wife to them.

Defecting to the Maquis would have tipped the balance of power for them. His crew was with them, and a ship that obliterate Galors in seconds would give the Maquis much needed punch.
Hmmm that would have made an excellent story for that season. Make the Phoenix the Maquis flagship.
That would have been a cool story, but Alyeska is quite obviously correct. He could not have been defecting to a group that did not yet exist. My mistake.

Do we know exactly how the Maquis was created? I don't remember. If not, then you could make a story where Maxwell is fed up with the Federation, gets a crew together and creates the Maquis himself.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-11-28 12:39am

We first saw the Maquis IIRC in DS9's "The Maquis". There was a TNG episode that aired at the same time which also featured the Maquis. Its the same episode where Ensign Ro defected to the Maquis.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-28 12:45am

Vertigo1 wrote:We first saw the Maquis IIRC in DS9's "The Maquis". There was a TNG episode that aired at the same time which also featured the Maquis. Its the same episode where Ensign Ro defected to the Maquis.

I know that part. But was there ever anything about how it was created? Could have been Maxwell.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-11-28 01:00am

http://www.startrek.com/library/xeno.asp?ID=70659

Very informative isn't it?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-28 01:07am

Vertigo1 wrote:http://www.startrek.com/library/xeno.asp?ID=70659

Very informative isn't it?

Oh yeah. Thanks. Must say starwars.com is much better.

Galaxy · Post by **Galaxy** » 2002-11-28 01:19am

I didn't like Jelico. He was a hardass, and i hate workin for hardasses.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-28 02:55am

Galaxy wrote:I didn't like Jelico. He was a hardass, and i hate workin for hardasses.

No, he was not a hard ass. He acted by the standard book that the USN uses for its ship captains. He made up his mind and made an order. Riker questioned that in front of the crew and thus earned his punishment. You NEVER question your commanding officers order infront of other crew. It is extremely disruptive to the chain of command and crew morale.

Galaxy · Post by **Galaxy** » 2002-11-28 03:36am

Well i'm glad i don't serve the USN.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2002-11-28 04:33am

You NEVER question your commanding officers order infront of other crew. It is extremely disruptive to the chain of command and crew morale.

By the same token, a good officer never 'counsels' a junior within hearing of the juniors' equals or subordinates.

This also carries over into the business world.
If I screw up and earn a bitching out, I'll take it.
But don't do it in front of my coworkers.