Brute vs SpaceMarine(Scout) Close quaters Combat

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2005-08-21 01:56pm

So lets just say a Vanilla SM with a Combat knife and a bolt pistol vs a Run of the mill Brute from Halo 2 armed with a Brute shot. Square off on the Tative 4 hallways. What happens? Before 40k fans scream "ZOMG!!111 brut3 0wn3D!" remeber in the Halo novel First Strike a Brute beat the crap out of the MC with it's bare hands.(Most of us have come to the conclusion that the MC in mark 6 armour is equal to that of a SM in scout armour.)

Bolt pistols are pretty deadly...a Brute shot cored a Mark 5 spartan from her neck to her stomach with one gernade.

So what happens?

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2005-08-21 02:32pm

Hmm tough fight. I would have to give it to the SM though. From what I remember of brutes, they aren't exactly the brightest of creatures. Besides all the SM is a bolt to the brutes head, and its lights out.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2005-08-21 02:52pm

Sr.mal wrote:Hmm tough fight. I would have to give it to the SM though. From what I remember of brutes, they aren't exactly the brightest of creatures. Besides all the SM is a bolt to the brutes head, and its lights out.

If it's an comfort to the people who will possibly back the brute in this fight, The brute survived a full clip of 9.5 MM battle rifle ammunition fired at it point blank. It didn't so much a flinch. It took a frag gernade essentially dropped down the pants of the brute to kill it.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-08-21 03:33pm

Laird wrote:
Sr.mal wrote:Hmm tough fight. I would have to give it to the SM though. From what I remember of brutes, they aren't exactly the brightest of creatures. Besides all the SM is a bolt to the brutes head, and its lights out.
If it's an comfort to the people who will possibly back the brute in this fight, The brute survived a full clip of 9.5 MM battle rifle ammunition fired at it point blank. It didn't so much a flinch. It took a frag gernade essentially dropped down the pants of the brute to kill it.

Of course, even vanilla SMs are often issued frag and krak grenades (though they are not in your OP).

I still give it to the SM. Bolters have 19 mm ammo, and these are armour piercing explosive shells, not bullets. Just wait till the brute snarls with it's mouth wide open, and say "eat this" with the bolter set on auto-fire.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-08-21 03:36pm

Is this a Scout or a full-blown Marine? Scouts are only half-formed, not having all the implants and genemods yet, and while incredibly strong are still rather mortal. Full-blow, 'the dial goes up to 11' Space Marines can survive having arms lobbed off, bombs going off in close proximity, bullets and all with relatively minimal problems and could most asuredly be called superhuman.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-08-21 04:06pm

The Brute Shot is a high-velocity grenade launcher. In First Strike, a single hit from a Brute Shot gutted and killed a Spartan-II through the shields and armor of MJOLNIR Mk V. It's a pretty safe bet to say that a brute shot is functionally equivalent to a bolter rifle.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-08-21 04:14pm

Matt Huang wrote:The Brute Shot is a high-velocity grenade launcher. In First Strike, a single hit from a Brute Shot gutted and killed a Spartan-II through the shields and armor of MJOLNIR Mk V. It's a pretty safe bet to say that a brute shot is functionally equivalent to a bolter rifle.

Probably i wouldnt doubt it (those things were pretty murderful in the game), but that's not what i mean. I mean a Scout is going to not be as fast or strong as a real Marine, so for both Brute and Marine their guns are most likely one-shot-one-kill, Bolters and Brute Shot, but if they end up going hand to hand a Scout would be at a disadvantage where as a Space Marine most likely wouldnt.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2005-08-21 05:53pm

I figured a Full SpaceMarine would basically be too much for the brute. Seeing as a Brute is basically equal to your standard orc.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-21 05:57pm

Laird wrote:
Sr.mal wrote:Hmm tough fight. I would have to give it to the SM though. From what I remember of brutes, they aren't exactly the brightest of creatures. Besides all the SM is a bolt to the brutes head, and its lights out.
If it's an comfort to the people who will possibly back the brute in this fight, The brute survived a full clip of 9.5 MM battle rifle ammunition fired at it point blank. It didn't so much a flinch. It took a frag gernade essentially dropped down the pants of the brute to kill it.

Do we know for sure the Brute took that much firepower? Because the MC commented how bloody fast the thing was going and he could have missed. A grenade in the things belly while it lies on the floor isn't going to be massively more powerful then 9.5mm ammunition when you get down to it.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2005-08-21 06:45pm

Alyeska wrote:
Laird wrote:
Sr.mal wrote:Hmm tough fight. I would have to give it to the SM though. From what I remember of brutes, they aren't exactly the brightest of creatures. Besides all the SM is a bolt to the brutes head, and its lights out.
If it's an comfort to the people who will possibly back the brute in this fight, The brute survived a full clip of 9.5 MM battle rifle ammunition fired at it point blank. It didn't so much a flinch. It took a frag gernade essentially dropped down the pants of the brute to kill it.
Do we know for sure the Brute took that much firepower? Because the MC commented how bloody fast the thing was going and he could have missed. A grenade in the things belly while it lies on the floor isn't going to be massively more powerful then 9.5mm ammunition when you get down to it.

P 310 has the MC firing several bursts and two other spartans firing at the same brute.

JointStrikeFighter · Post by **JointStrikeFighter** » 2005-08-22 08:49pm

Matt Huang wrote:
The Brute Shot is a high-velocity grenade launcher. In First Strike, a single hit from a Brute Shot gutted and killed a Spartan-II through the shields and armor of MJOLNIR Mk V. It's a pretty safe bet to say that a brute shot is functionally equivalent to a bolter rifle.

Probably i wouldnt doubt it (those things were pretty murderful in the game), but that's not what i mean. I mean a Scout is going to not be as fast or strong as a real Marine, so for both Brute and Marine their guns are most likely one-shot-one-kill, Bolters and Brute Shot, but if they end up going hand to hand a Scout would be at a disadvantage where as a Space Marine most likely wouldnt.

Auctually, it was 3 rounds.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-08-22 08:55pm

JointStrikeFighter wrote: Auctually, it was 3 rounds.

The Brute Shot can burn through its magazine extremely quick, however. The new round is ready right as the gun makes its "Waapush" noise when it shoots, so that's about 1 second for 3 shots, maybe slightly more.

I'm not sure how fast the firing rate on a Bolter is, but I assume it's close and carries about five times as much ammunition, however.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2005-08-22 09:50pm

Depends. If the brute catches the scout by surprise, he can take it. If the scout plays stealth ninja and tries his damnedest to sneak around a foreign environment to get the jump on the brute, he'll probably take it.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-08-22 10:31pm

Tasoth wrote:Depends. If the brute catches the scout by surprise, he can take it. If the scout plays stealth ninja and tries his damnedest to sneak around a foreign environment to get the jump on the brute, he'll probably take it.

The Brute idea of suprise is that they run straight at you WITHOUT shouting grunted taunts and noises.

I'd say the Brute charges, and the Scout guns him down.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-08-22 10:50pm

MRDOD wrote:
Tasoth wrote:Depends. If the brute catches the scout by surprise, he can take it. If the scout plays stealth ninja and tries his damnedest to sneak around a foreign environment to get the jump on the brute, he'll probably take it.
The Brute idea of suprise is that they run straight at you WITHOUT shouting grunted taunts and noises.

I'd say the Brute charges, and the Scout guns him down.

The Spartan team that inflitrated the Unyielding Heriophant seemed to be taken by suprise.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-08-22 10:57pm

Noble Ire wrote: The Spartan team that inflitrated the Unyielding Heriophant seemed to be taken by suprise.

Didn't Cortana tell Chief Brutes were probably not dangerous, because they were only ceremonial guards?

And IIRC it came out of a door or entrance or something, where they couldn't see it until it was on them.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-08-22 11:11pm

MRDOD wrote:
Noble Ire wrote: The Spartan team that inflitrated the Unyielding Heriophant seemed to be taken by suprise.
Didn't Cortana tell Chief Brutes were probably not dangerous, because they were only ceremonial guards?

Hmm, I don't remember that part. Perhaps.

And IIRC it came out of a door or entrance or something, where they couldn't see it until it was on them.

And this couldn't happen to the scout why?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-08-22 11:44pm

Well, a Space Wolf aspirant (not even a full Scout yet) is able to 'hear a twig snap a league away, and see for a kilometer, and follow the musk trails of elk' and stuff.

This is a Space Wolf aspirant, i dont know if it applies to all SM, but this is the guy with some of the implants and genemods, not a full blown Scout or Marine...

Post by **Kuja** » 2005-08-22 11:57pm

Noble Ire wrote:The Spartan team that inflitrated the Unyielding Heriophant seemed to be taken by suprise.

1. They didn't know what to expect and 2. that bunch was protecting the ship's core, so they might've been top-quality Brutes.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-08-23 01:29am

Kuja wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:The Spartan team that inflitrated the Unyielding Heriophant seemed to be taken by suprise.
1. They didn't know what to expect and 2. that bunch was protecting the ship's core, so they might've been top-quality Brutes.

So, I am to assume that there is a planet of Brutes in the 40Kverse, and their tactics and abilities are commonly known?

As for the Temple Guard's skill, while it is most likely higher than an average soldier's, the margin of difference is unknown.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-08-23 02:26am

Noble Ire wrote:
So, I am to assume that there is a planet of Brutes in the 40Kverse, and their tactics and abilities are commonly known?

Yes! They're called Orks!

Spiritbw · Post by **Spiritbw** » 2005-08-23 09:48pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Well, a Space Wolf aspirant (not even a full Scout yet) is able to 'hear a twig snap a league away, and see for a kilometer, and follow the musk trails of elk' and stuff.

This is a Space Wolf aspirant, i dont know if it applies to all SM, but this is the guy with some of the implants and genemods, not a full blown Scout or Marine...

Quick note, Space Wolves go a slightly diffrent route becomming full marines and joining a blood claw pack first rather than going through the scout phase. Space Wolf scouts are actually elites who have mastered stealth and infiltration tactics and usually have already gone through being part of Blood Claw and Grey Hunter packs.

Still, most chapters that do induct thier members through the scouts first are still pretty far along the path to becomming a full Marine. by the time they go out on missions as Scouts they only usually Lack the Black Carapice which let's them interface with the power armour. In all other ways they are usually equal to full brethren.

I haven't played Halo that much so I'll leave it to more knowing minds to decide just who wins this.