Motherboard comments

[Arrow]

I'm trying to decide between the DFI nF4 SLI-DR and the Asus A8N SLI Deluxe (the Premium's heat pipe supposedly won't work upside-down, which means it's not going to work in a Lian-Li V1200 case). I've read that the DFI boards can be a pain in the ass to configure, but they have a very nice layout and a PCIe 4x slot (how useful this be in the future is unknown - and the slot is going to be blocked by an XP-120 heatsink). I've always used Asus boards in the past, and the Deluxe is a bit cheaper than the DFI board, but I've a lot of threads indicating that the chipset fan is utter crap (although I could replace it with a ZALMAN ZM-NB47J passive cooler), and it lacks the 4x slot.

Does anyone have any experience with or suggestions for these motherboard? And while we're at it, would the A8N Premium's heat pipe work upside down?

[Darth Mall]

I have an A8n-Sli deluxe and I've had no problems.

Yes its true that the chipset fan is utter crap, if you get the one it originally shipped with, as it was to small and burnt out after 1-3 months on average.

But supposedly new boards are coming with a new fan thats bigger, and if yours doesnt, just call up asus and they will ship you a new one, free. Might I reccomend you do this before you get any problems. I had to go an entire week with out my main PC due to the chipset fan not working.

So I like the a8n-sli deluxe, but make sure you replace that fan.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

I use Asus motherboards myself, but am planning to make a full switch to DFI soon enough. Asus boards are actually the ones that can be a pain in the arse to configure sometimes, and in my experience DFI boards are less prone to failing.

[phongn]

I prefer ASUS, really.

[Darth Mall]

Also I forgot to add, with the asus board, if you get it make sure you update all of the drivers and the BIO, otherwise the sound, and other various features don't work. I found the updates to fix all my problems

[Arrow]

I think I'm going with the Asus board. It looks like the newer boards have fixed the chipset fan issue.

And filtering out the BS from reality on the major hardware forums has become a major pain in the ass! What happened to the good ol' days...

[phongn]

ArsTechnica's forums still remain quality

[Arrow]

Agh! I just spent some time reading through the DFI manual. That is a nice board and doesn't seem to be a big pain to configure after all (and I like how the heat sink fins will be oriented with the rear exhaust fan). The memory and PSU I've selected are listed as compatible. I can't decide...

[Glocksman]

I'd choose based on the chipset more than I would on Asus vs. DFI.
I've used boards from both companies and have had no manufacturer (I have had USB compatibility issues with the nF3 chipset boards) related problems.

DFI does have a company sponsored and moderated support forum, while Asus's tech support blows huge chunks.

[Uraniun235]

And filtering out the BS from reality on the major hardware forums has become a major pain in the ass! What happened to the good ol' days...

I'm personally a fan (and regular) of the SH/SC forum over at Something Awful.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

Agh! I just spent some time reading through the DFI manual. That is a nice board and doesn't seem to be a big pain to configure after all (and I like how the heat sink fins will be oriented with the rear exhaust fan). The memory and PSU I've selected are listed as compatible. I can't decide...

DFI LANparty boards are primarily aimed at the hardcore gamer and PC modder. The board is designed with cable management in mind, and so you'll find larger cables easy to connect in a slightly hidden way as not to impede airflow. Speaking of airflow, that particular LANparty board has something like five fan sockets, that'll give you all the cooling you want without using up molex connectors.

Also, if I recall correctly, the DFI LANparty series use 100% Japanese transistors. Quality produced, less prone to damage and shorting out, when compared to the Chinese/Thaiwanese crap in Asus boards.

As I previously mentioned; It's actually Asus boards that are renowned for being a slight pain to set up, especially when you have to disable the crap they often stick on it, and they're simply not as reliable as DFI boards either in my experience. I'm making the total switch from Asus to DFI soon, I'd call anyone crazy not to.

[Mr Bean]

As I previously mentioned; It's actually Asus boards that are renowned for being a slight pain to set up, especially when you have to disable the crap they often stick on it, and they're simply not as reliable as DFI boards either in my experience. I'm making the total switch from Asus to DFI soon, I'd call anyone crazy not to.

How about the fact Asus has a long history of quality and DFI is just getting it togther?

More-over I've been in charge/assiting the adminstrator of hundred plus computer systems at a time and I can tell you, its not the transistors that blow out first on motherboards despite the fact that nearly all goverment computers run of Thaiwanese parts. Some of these things have been on for six plus years solid only be shut off to be rebooted because Windows locks up or when we made the switchover to 2000. I have yet in the four years I've been doing this seen a motherboard fail or read a trouble call were the motherboard failed because a transistor shorted out.

That said I've been personaly using Abit for years now and just made the switchover to Asus withe nForce chipsets and my personal problems have been Windows related never Motherboard related.

[Arrow]

How about the fact Asus has a long history of quality and DFI is just getting it togther?

That right there is probably my biggest issue with deciding. My current Intel-based board is from Asus, and I've never had to so much update a driver. But, I did have an SiS based board from them that gave me problems.

In the end Glocksman is right - both boards use the same chipset and will quite similar performance and problem wise.

[Mr Bean]

In the end Glocksman is right - both boards use the same chipset and will quite similar performance and problem wise.

Question from ignorance, how is DFI utility set compared to Abit uGuru and Asus CrashFree2? Both of which let you recover from bad BIOS flashs and provided tons of OC and adjustment options from within windows?

[Embracer Of Darkness]

As I previously mentioned; It's actually Asus boards that are renowned for being a slight pain to set up, especially when you have to disable the crap they often stick on it, and they're simply not as reliable as DFI boards either in my experience. I'm making the total switch from Asus to DFI soon, I'd call anyone crazy not to.

How about the fact Asus has a long history of quality and DFI is just getting it togther?

On the contrary. DFI have been around for almost twenty five years now. They're not "only just getting it together," it's just that their latest motherboards (aimed at the high-end gamer and modder) are only breaking the mainstream in the last two years. That's more than enough time to prove themselves, and they definitely have.

More-over I've been in charge/assiting the adminstrator of hundred plus computer systems at a time and I can tell you, its not the transistors that blow out first on motherboards despite the fact that nearly all goverment computers run of Thaiwanese parts. Some of these things have been on for six plus years solid only be shut off to be rebooted because Windows locks up or when we made the switchover to 2000. I have yet in the four years I've been doing this seen a motherboard fail or read a trouble call were the motherboard failed because a transistor shorted out.

"I've never seen it happen, so don't worry about it." I've heard that way too much. Most motherboard failures are actually caused by PSU issues, but how does that invalidate the simple need for higher-quality construction?

That said I've been personaly using Abit for years now and just made the switchover to Asus withe nForce chipsets and my personal problems have been Windows related never Motherboard related.

That's good for you, but as someone who builds, benchmarks, and stress-tests PCs daily I am telling you that DFI LANparty motherboards outperform and outlast Asus ones. Sorry, but it's the truth.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

In the end Glocksman is right - both boards use the same chipset and will quite similar performance and problem wise.

Question from ignorance, how is DFI utility set compared to Abit uGuru and Asus CrashFree2? Both of which let you recover from bad BIOS flashs and provided tons of OC and adjustment options from within windows?

If that's your primary consern, don't look at either. Get a Gigabyte dual-BIOS motherboard instead.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

By the way, ArrowMk84...

Just in case you're into ATI and considering going CrossFire instead of SLi at any point in the future, you may wish to feast your eyes on this beauty from Sapphire which is due out later this month.



The Sapphire PURE CrossFire Radeon Xpress 200P. Gorgeous.

[Arrow]

Question from ignorance, how is DFI utility set compared to Abit uGuru and Asus CrashFree2? Both of which let you recover from bad BIOS flashs and provided tons of OC and adjustment options from within windows?

I know their flash utility auto extracts and sets up the floppy disk for you, but I haven't seen anything about them having a Windows based flasher. On the flipside, I've seen things indicating that Windows flashers aren't 100% reliable either (mainly problems introducing errors into the BIOS).

By the way, ArrowMk84...

Just in case you're into ATI and considering going CrossFire instead of SLi at any point in the future, you may wish to feast your eyes on this beauty from Sapphire which is due out later this month.

After the disaster I had with my 9700 Pro and ATI's driver support, ATI is currently on my shit list. I'll probably come back their boards later, but not this go-around.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

By the way, ArrowMk84...

Just in case you're into ATI and considering going CrossFire instead of SLi at any point in the future, you may wish to feast your eyes on this beauty from Sapphire which is due out later this month.

After the disaster I had with my 9700 Pro and ATI's driver support, ATI is currently on my shit list. I'll probably come back their boards later, but not this go-around.

Understood. In that case, I strongly recommend the DFI.

[Mr Bean]

On the contrary. DFI have been around for almost twenty five years now. They're not "only just getting it together," it's just that their latest motherboards (aimed at the high-end gamer and modder) are only breaking the mainstream in the last two years. That's more than enough time to prove themselves, and they definitely have.

If the recomendation is for a high-end gamer modder board and you have two companys to pick from, one which just started breaking into the business and delivered a quality product, or a company thats been doing it for years now and has a identicly to slightly better or worse product, which do you pick?
You consider all factors of course such as price, preformance and support of course but remeber the context.

"I've never seen it happen, so don't worry about it." I've heard that way too much. Most motherboard failures are actually caused by PSU issues, but how does that invalidate the simple need for higher-quality construction?

By your own aurgment, I should have been seeing and hearing about this problem. The aurgment presented so far is that Japanese transistors are better than Chineese ones... Why? Cause they said so, either that or the assume the reason being is one so obviously that everyone inculding Alabama dirt farmers know why Japanese products are just better.

Of course I contend that its based on company and divison not country not country of origin.

That's good for you, but as someone who builds, benchmarks, and stress-tests PCs daily I am telling you that DFI LANparty motherboards outperform and outlast Asus ones. Sorry, but it's the truth.

So you derided my personal experience while proclaming your own as absolute truth no less. Why I did not know you were the Grand Master of all Knowledge, forgive my humble questions oh great one.

[Mr Bean]

I know their flash utility auto extracts and sets up the floppy disk for you, but I haven't seen anything about them having a Windows based flasher. On the flipside, I've seen things indicating that Windows flashers aren't 100% reliable either (mainly problems introducing errors into the BIOS).

True in windows there is additional overhead invovled compared to BIOS flashing from boot but not massive mind bending amounts. After most people seem to be able to install windows and run programs with it without it massivley corrupting it self.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

If the recomendation is for a high-end gamer modder board and you have two companys to pick from, one which just started breaking into the business and delivered a quality product, or a company thats been doing it for years now and has a identicly to slightly better or worse product, which do you pick?
You consider all factors of course such as price, preformance and support of course but remeber the context.

So... Do I choose the DFI motherboard because it's a higher quality, more reliable motherboard with a fantastic design plan, or do I choose the Asus board because of the brand name? That's an appeal to popularity if I ever saw one.

By your own aurgment, I should have been seeing and hearing about this problem. The aurgment presented so far is that Japanese transistors are better than Chineese ones... Why? Cause they said so, either that or the assume the reason being is one so obviously that everyone inculding Alabama dirt farmers know why Japanese products are just better.

That's a strawman if I ever saw one. I never said that transistors failing was a common problem, just that it's better to have higher-quality hardware. In fact, I said in my last post that other hardware (such as the PSU) is usually the cause of motherboards shorting.

Of course I contend that its based on company and divison not country not country of origin.

Of course, and so do I. But the simple fact is that the components (transistors in particular) for DFI motherboards are specially manufactured in Japan and to a high standard. It's a simple fact most companies ship from places like China and Thaiwan because it's cheap labour and cheap cost. God forbid a company care a little more about what actually goes into their product.

So you derided my personal experience while proclaming your own as absolute truth no less. Why I did not know you were the Grand Master of all Knowledge, forgive my humble questions oh great one.

Actually, I decided to take that tone in response to your "oh I've administrated eleventy billion PCs blar blar blar" blow-harding rubbish. So, when you've personally benchmarked and stress-tested these motherboards yourself, come back and we'll talk. Until then, please shush because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[phongn]

As I previously mentioned; It's actually Asus boards that are renowned for being a slight pain to set up, especially when you have to disable the crap they often stick on it, and they're simply not as reliable as DFI boards either in my experience. I'm making the total switch from Asus to DFI soon, I'd call anyone crazy not to.

Bah. If you really want reliability and such go buy a Supermicro or Tyan motherboard

[Embracer Of Darkness]

As I previously mentioned; It's actually Asus boards that are renowned for being a slight pain to set up, especially when you have to disable the crap they often stick on it, and they're simply not as reliable as DFI boards either in my experience. I'm making the total switch from Asus to DFI soon, I'd call anyone crazy not to.

Bah. If you really want reliability and such go buy a Supermicro or Tyan motherboard

I'd so agree with you, but I'm dirt poor.

[Mr Bean]

So... Do I choose the DFI motherboard because it's a higher quality, more reliable motherboard with a fantastic design plan, or do I choose the Asus board because of the brand name? That's an appeal to popularity if I ever saw one.

Good job on missing the point, agian lets try this agian. First time success(In the high end gaming market as you pointed out) VS Another success from a company with a long history of success in the high end gamer market.
Keep in mind the product in question, both of them have one "Best MB awards" from various websites from 3DGamers to [H]ardocp to Tom's Hardware in a roughly equal amount. Both of these boards are quality products which on a price and preformance basis are near identical. However the Asus has more extras and a solid reputation(Meaning good long-term software support) while the DFI has an extra mm and a half around the socket and according to you "higher" quality parts.

By your own aurgment, I should have been seeing and hearing about this problem. The aurgment presented so far is that Japanese transistors are better than Chineese ones... Why? Cause they said so, either that or the assume the reason being is one so obviously that everyone inculding Alabama dirt farmers know why Japanese products are just better.

That's a strawman if I ever saw one. I never said that transistors failing was a common problem, just that it's better to have higher-quality hardware. In fact, I said in my last post that other hardware (such as the PSU) is usually the cause of motherboards shorting.
[/quote]
You missed the point Part Two Why are the transistors produced in Japan better than those in China as you maintain(What will saying that Chinese transistors are crappy vs the wonderful Japanese transistors I mearly asked why this is.)
I'm not aurging that transistor failure is a massive, or minor problem, the only thing agian I'm asking you is Why are parts made in Japan better than those made in China?

Of course I contend that its based on company and divison not country not country of origin.

Of course, and so do I. But the simple fact is that the components (transistors in particular) for DFI motherboards are specially manufactured in Japan and to a high standard. It's a simple fact most companies ship from places like China and Thaiwan because it's cheap labour and cheap cost. God forbid a company care a little more about what actually goes into their product. [/quote]
I see, so the common Red Chinaman is incapable of making high quality parts and must set low quality standards(Or Lower than Japan's standards)
Do you acutal even know what standards Japan, or China for that matter sets? Which standards in question are lower than Japan.
The reason I'm pushing you on this is because the "Japan=High Standards" is a brain bug in most industries and its something that often touted but rarley real.

Actually, I decided to take that tone in response to your "oh I've administrated eleventy billion PCs blar blar blar" blow-harding rubbish.

Hello, me job, I fix broken things, offical its computers and electronics, praticuly its everything that beeps and boops or has a grounded connector. Thats expected in my job set at some commands.
As for your demand I benchmark them each indivudaly(I guess because unless you do them all, you have no idea what your doing ) these are Goverment computers, everything from Dell OptiPlex's and Compaq Slimlines to Solarius Sun's. Some with crippled or stripped MB's with access to the BIOS either removed or enabled only with plugged in daughter cards. Only goverment approved software can be loaded and must all go through Big Navy, NSG's(Which as of a month ago we got another re-org and were called something else can't remeber what)

Its not like I can throw 3dMark or Sandra on there and bust out a 24 hour burn in session at will.