Grand Admiral Thrawn vs Reborn Emperor Palpatine

[President Sharky]

The following is from the WotC online feature Byss and the Deep Core:

Approaching Byss from space makes it abundantly clear that this is the true stronghold of the Emperor. An entire sector fleet is spread throughout the Beshqek system, with a ring of Star Destroyers encircling the planet itself. A web of sensor arrays known as the Gauntlet Scanners crisscrosses the entire world, continually monitoring IFF transponders, security codes, and other forms of authorization for anyone showing even the slightest signs of forged documentation. The Star Destroyers in orbit have standing orders to open fire immediately on anyone identified by the Gauntlet Scanners with full and lethal force.

So, in addition to the numerous Imperial attack fleets circling Byss, Palpatine has a sector fleet (2,400 ships, 24 ISDs) spread throughout the system. There is also a complete orbital blockade comprised of Allegiances, ISDs, and VSDs (and perhaps VenStars), which is perhaps comparable to the Trade Federation blockade of Naboo. The ring alone probably has over a thousand destroyers.

Then there are the orbiting attack fleets, which are used in Operation Shadow Hand. These attack fleets would be led by squadrons of Star Cruisers and Star Battleships, each one a match for a few Imperial-class Star Destroyers. Thrawn, who likely has only a few hundred Star Destroyers in his entire domain, would be overwhelmed.

[Havok]

Gah... Can't we just pretend that DE just never existed?

I say, Thrawn outmaunuvers Sidious and captures forces at all encounters and wins in the long run, just to be different.

Isn't ROTS a nice proof Sidious might just have the brains for what he did in DE?

Yes, MIGHT. I can get behind the clones... multiple times even, but c'mon a Force Storm that wipes out an orbiting fleet? Why does this guy need a Death Star again? Yeah, yeah, he hadn't perfected it yet. It's just too much over the top power for my tastes. I know it has it's place in cannon and all, but it just seems to cheapen the character overall.

Side tangent... why the hell do you need to build a big ass space cannon to launch hyperspace torpedoes? The Galaxy gun. Why not just put a hyperdrive on a missle or pack a hyperdrive vehicle with an ass load of explosives and launch it?

[NRS Guardian]

The following is from the WotC online feature Byss and the Deep Core:

Approaching Byss from space makes it abundantly clear that this is the true stronghold of the Emperor. An entire sector fleet is spread throughout the Beshqek system, with a ring of Star Destroyers encircling the planet itself. A web of sensor arrays known as the Gauntlet Scanners crisscrosses the entire world, continually monitoring IFF transponders, security codes, and other forms of authorization for anyone showing even the slightest signs of forged documentation. The Star Destroyers in orbit have standing orders to open fire immediately on anyone identified by the Gauntlet Scanners with full and lethal force.

So, in addition to the numerous Imperial attack fleets circling Byss, Palpatine has a sector fleet (2,400 ships, 24 ISDs) spread throughout the system.

Considering it says an ENTIRE sector fleet, and that it's Byss we're talking about, the 2400 ships and 24 ISDs are a lower limit it's entirely possible that they're talking about a fully expanded sector fleet of 40,000 ships and 80 ISDs.

[Crown]

Strictly speaking, authors are free to reinterpret the evidence given by other authors as it pleases them, even when it runs counter to the intentions of the original author (Mr. Zahn himself did this in Vision of the Future when he tried to imply via Mara Jade that the Galactic Emperor had not really reincarnated).

To which Luke replied; Yes it was him, I was there, you weren't. Or words to that affect IIRC. It seems disingenuous when people harp on about Mara's quote and try to use this one piece of evidence to paint Zahn as a raving egotist, and yet completely ignore Luke's response, you know the character that was actually there. And let us not forget the opening chapter of SotP where Luke's inner monologue mentions the Reborn Emperor as something that happened.

Nevertheless, you are right; Mr. Horne giving Palpatine a role in Thrawn's death is counterintuitive and gratuitous (and is not entirely certain – the DESB only says that Thrawn's death was "no accident"). Of course, Mr. Zahn himself is guilty of taking gratuitous cheap shots at Palpatine and Vader, so one supposes that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Abosolutely, however in this case it is clear that Rukh betrayed Thrawn due to Leia Organa Solo and not Palpatine the Undying, since it is again reinforced in SotP.

In this case it is only cited uncharitably due to Mr. O'Farrell's insistence that the all-knowing Thrawn will somehow outsmart Palpatine's forces.

I don't agree with Chris' position, for what it's worth I believe GADM Thrawn would prostate himself infront of the Emperor and beg for a place at his Majesty's side - in a dignified manner of course - since Thrawn is smart enough to read the writting on the wall.

As regards Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, not having played it, this author is unfamiliar with any details it might have contained about the Noghri Death Commandos. Even if they were isolated from Honoghr, Palpatine still regards them as being reliable agents in the DESB (it is even implied that he used them to assassinate enemies during his occultation). Even if one disregards the Noghri altogether (which is probably preferable in any case, for, as you have noted, the idea is actually problematic),

It bears mentioning that it isn't beyond the realm of reason to assume that Palpatine does still have groups of Noghri hit squads that are loyal to him due to ignorance, but the underlining fact is that the Noghri were loyal to Vader first and foremost. Which all means he has got a bunch of fanatical, semi-reliable, likely to turn on him at any second, death squads somewhere close to him. Not exactly the best position for him.

As for JK:JA, it is a group of Noghri who have been cut off from their brethen in Honoghr - so they're not hip to what's up.

Palpatine has other wreckers and agents in place in Thrawn's "New Empire," as the DESB says that his "spies moved everywhere with confidence," and his wreckers are explicitly said to be responsible for the conflicting orders and bureaucratic morass that paralyzed the Empire for years.

100% agree with you.

[FTeik]

The following is from the WotC online feature Byss and the Deep Core:

Approaching Byss from space makes it abundantly clear that this is the true stronghold of the Emperor. An entire sector fleet is spread throughout the Beshqek system, with a ring of Star Destroyers encircling the planet itself. A web of sensor arrays known as the Gauntlet Scanners crisscrosses the entire world, continually monitoring IFF transponders, security codes, and other forms of authorization for anyone showing even the slightest signs of forged documentation. The Star Destroyers in orbit have standing orders to open fire immediately on anyone identified by the Gauntlet Scanners with full and lethal force.

So, in addition to the numerous Imperial attack fleets circling Byss, Palpatine has a sector fleet (2,400 ships, 24 ISDs) spread throughout the system.

Considering it says an ENTIRE sector fleet, and that it's Byss we're talking about, the 2400 ships and 24 ISDs are a lower limit it's entirely possible that they're talking about a fully expanded sector fleet of 40,000 ships and 80 ISDs.

Considering, that it is questionable if those hacks even know how many ships are in an augmented sector-fleet i wouldn't get my hopes up to high.

"Attack fleets? What attack fleets?" the ignorant reader of this article might ask.

[Dark Primus]

In the real universe Thrawn was still loyal to Palpatine, and would most likely ally with him, so I don't see the reason to why Palpatine would even kill him?

And on topic: Assuming Thrawn has control of all of the largest shipyards and industries, how many ships do you think Thrawn would be able to build before the war starts? Remember he has one year to do it.

[FTeik]

It is nowhere stated, that Palpatine had a hand in Thrawn's death, just that it wasn't an accident. Being stabbed by your loyal bodyguard after years of loyal service, because said bodyguard finally learns, that he and his people have been screwed over is hardly an accident.

As to why Palpatine would want to get rid of Thrawn:

Jealousy? Palpatine playing an insulted Stalin, who sents the poor Shukov/Thrawn to Sibiria/UnknownRegions after the great victory.

Or, since Palpatine wanted to get rid of the Moffs, Admirals and Grandadmirals anyway to establish his DarkSide-theocracy, people like Thrawn had to go this way or the other.

[Dark Primus]

Poor Thrawn. I feel sorry for him. He fights in the memory of a man, risks his life to someone who really want him dead.