Sci Fi armour for Dummy's Part 1

[The Yosemite Bear]

Heavy Metal: A guide to Sci-Fi Armor


Clases
A. Tracked/Wheeled
B. GEV
C. Mecha Bipedal
D. Mecha Quad
E. Mecha Insectiod


A. Tracked and Wheeled vehicles, also known as Tanks and APC's

Advantages:
Low target profile

Cheap to field (Compared to the rest of the list)
Heavily Armourable

Very Stable platform capable of handling heavy recoil

Ground Pressure spread out all over the surface area of the treads
makes it very unlikely to bog down.

Disadvantages
Lower top speed/manuverability

Changing Treads can be a serious bitch.

Limited ability in Jungle, Badlands, and very rocky Terrian.


B. GEV's (Ground effect vehicles, be they normal hovercraft, "Land

Speeders", or Hammer's Slammers style hovertanks

Advantages:
Higher speed

Can travel over water/Ice easily

Can travel "Sideways"

Cheaper then Mecha

Disadvantages
Fans require LOTS of Power to create lift (ditto anti grav & Repulsor

units.)

Forward motion must be applied to cancel recoil, (or you stop & ground

before firing) resulting in lighter munitions being perfered (same as

Bipedal Mecha)

Less efficiant mode of propulsion then Wheeled/Tracked


C. Mecha Biped
Your classic Anime staple

Advantages:
Looks cool

Good Psych Warfare value

If configured in the MSG fasion the multipal thrusters could be a
concievable space weapons platform

Somewhat Better then tanks in a Jungle enviornment.

Disadvantages:
The Arm based weapons would place recoil in the most awkward of

positions, and limit the size, and velocity of the weapons carried

(Actually worse then the GEV)

Locomotion is incredably inefficiant

Ground pressure is too high

Armour would be too thin for it's size/Tonnage

Least Stable possible platform.

Very HIGH target Profile

Unbelievably Expensive to field


D. Quad Mecha (Including Imperial Walkers)
Advantages:
Heavy Intimidation Factor

Stable weapon's platform

Can be just as heavily armoured, if not heavier armoured then the tank

Disadvantages:
Increadably High target profile

Ponderously slow

Not manuverable

Limited firing arcs

The legs are an obvious target

Very Expensive


E. Insectiod Mecha
(This is the other variation on the Quad, a body surrounded by 6-8

legs.)
Advantages:
Can handle just about any terrian (NASA is already working on them for

probe prototypes)

Stable platform, but very low recoil tolerance

Good Intimidation Factor.

Disadvantages
Very expensive

Legs are very, very Vulnerable.

low Recoil tolerance. (Suggest flamers, MG, or energy weapons, much

more and the stress on it's fragile legs won't be able to take it.)

High target profile.

[MKSheppard]

Limited ability in Jungle, Badlands, and very rocky Terrian.

That's because of all the trees, a basic limitation of ALL
mechanized vehicles larger than a motorcycle.

Tanks and APCs were used effectively in Vietnam, with
90mm cannister rounds

[MKSheppard]

A. Tracked and Wheeled vehicles, also known as Tanks and APC's
Disadvantages
Lower top speed/manuverability

Tell that to Ralph Christie.



Could reach 120+ MPH on treads....

[MKSheppard]

Could reach 120+ MPH on treads....

Of course, I can't see the NEED for a 120 MPH / 193 KM/H tank,
except as a 25mm armed recon tank, because it would have
to either be very light or have an excessively overpowered engine,
plus the fact that the track life/suspension life would be very short.

Still would end up being a lot cheaper than a 120 MPH capable
mecha

[The Yosemite Bear]

Apppendium to part one

Speed:
1. GEV/Skimmers Though less efficiant, they can still maintain a higher speed, due to their surface pressure being spread out over the ENTIRE demensions of the bottom of the Vehicle
2. Tanks & Wheeled: They have the most efficiant movement possible
3. Tie: Biped w. Jets & Six leggers (they can make short term bursts, but can sustain it.
4. Quads very ponderously slow


Manuverability
1. Tanks/Wheeled: They have the most efficiant means of locomotion
2. Bipeds when jumping
3. GEV's (They have some serious manuverability issures especially under fire.
4. Spider mechs
5. Bi-peds on Ground
6. Big slow quads
7. Bi-peds running in unstable terrian (Bud, burned out buildings, sand & Snow (their method of locomotion will bury them if they try running)

Armour
1. Quads
2. Tanks
3. GEV
4. Spider mechs
5. Bi-peds

Arment (Due to recoil)
1. Quads/Tanks
2. GEV (can only mount missiles, energy weapons & other light arms, unless a signifigant amount of thrust is used to cancel recoil)
3. Bi-peds (Just don't mount the weapons on the arms that is like the worst place for recoil)
4. Spider Mechs
5. Biped weapons mounted in the arms.

[guyver]

Could reach 120+ MPH on treads....

Of course, I can't see the NEED for a 120 MPH / 193 KM/H tank,
except as a 25mm armed recon tank, because it would have
to either be very light or have an excessively overpowered engine,
plus the fact that the track life/suspension life would be very short.

Still would end up being a lot cheaper than a 120 MPH capable
mecha

You can not see the need for speed. Hell when I was in the core, the M60 I was in had a top end of 40 MPH. Trust me speed is very good on the battle field. For not only getting into good firing postions but also getting out of the enemys field of view.

In WW2 the German army was very good at using speed to help them win the fights. The French and Brits could not keep up with the German advance. Granted high speed tanks in that time could only go 30 MPH but that was better than what the French and Brits had.

In the end of the war the good old USA was using high-speed light and medium tanks to keep the pressure on what was left of the German army. The M24 Chaffee and the M4 Sherman where outgunned by the German tanks but they could out run and out maneuver a Tiger 1 and 2 tank.

Speed and numbers will always help in winning.

[Peregrin Toker]

What about Mecha which can fly, such as the Tau Crisis Suits of Warhammer 40K and the ones which transform to airplanes??

[Pablo Sanchez]

What about Mecha which can fly, such as the Tau Crisis Suits of Warhammer 40K and the ones which transform to airplanes??

A flying mech would be highly fuel inefficient (because of shitty aerodynamics and weight), slower, badly armed, and even more expensive.

A transforming mech would be so obscenely expensive that no Department of Defense would ever order it in any numbers. A government could probably order a tank company and a squadron of interceptors for the same price as one transforming flight-capable mech.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Also, you might want to include a discussion on logistical considerations. Reliability, fuel efficiency, and ease of repair are all very important concerns for an AFV.

[Vympel]

In the end of the war the good old USA was using high-speed light and medium tanks to keep the pressure on what was left of the German army. The M24 Chaffee and the M4 Sherman where outgunned by the German tanks but they could out run and out maneuver a Tiger 1 and 2 tank.

Speed and numbers will always help in winning.

I would say that tank battles between M24s and M4s in WW2 were won despite, not because of, Allied armor. The terrain also played a part- the Tiger and Tiger II were optimized for long range duels- their turrets didn't turn that fast- and Allied airpower did more against the Tiger II than Allied tanks ever did (the Tiger II was hamstrung by its own poor performance/ reliability)

[Vympel]

A flying mech would be highly fuel inefficient (because of shitty aerodynamics and weight), slower, badly armed, and even more expensive.

A transforming mech would be so obscenely expensive that no Department of Defense would ever order it in any numbers. A government could probably order a tank company and a squadron of interceptors for the same price as one transforming flight-capable mech.

Just think of the maintenance costs

[SylasGaunt]

What about Mecha which can fly, such as the Tau Crisis Suits of Warhammer 40K and the ones which transform to airplanes??

Tau Crisis suits are power armor not full sized mecha (the closest to that being titans or the Chaos Defiler). And as far as I can remeber Crisis suits can't do full scale flight, they use jet assisted jumps.

[Ghost Rider]

Yeech.

Actually anything being a hybrid needs similar yet not the same parts as the original pieces. Plus for some a new problems that would never be encountered in any other vehicle fielded.

For anime the stuff looks awesome but real life logistics would damn the thing before it ever got past stage 1.

[MKSheppard]

(the Tiger II was hamstrung by its own poor performance/ reliability)

In fact, 3 broke down during the filming of a propaganda film of the
new tank due to broken gearboxes

[Vympel]

(the Tiger II was hamstrung by its own poor performance/ reliability)

In fact, 3 broke down during the filming of a propaganda film of the
new tank due to broken gearboxes

Hhahahah- have you read the Russian Battlefield article about whether the King Tiger was "really King?" Interesting reading.

I do so enjoy my JS-3s take 88mm/L71 rounds in CM2 and watching them ricochet ... and then watching its 122mm APBC blow that Tiger to kingdom come through the front ... you know they patched it? They added some new models, but no the T-44 and JS-3 ... yet. Next patch probably.

[Boba Fett]

Dudes, it was nearly 70 tons...Imagine that gearbox that can handle that monster!

@MK Sheppard: ...and Christie's biggest trick was that tanks with these suspension system can even go without threads pretty fast as well!
As I remember a slightly different version were used for the T series as well. (The last one was the T-44 but it never came out to production)
Do I know it right?

[Vympel]

The last one was the T-44 but it never came out to production)

The T-44 or the suspension system? In fact, a little under 1,000 T-44 tanks were produced- a very important tank design, it set the trend that was followed by every major post-WW2 Soviet tank.

The suspension for the T-34 series was different from Christie's original in that unlike the original they couldn't run trackless.

[MKSheppard]

I do so enjoy my JS-3s take 88mm/L71 rounds in CM2 and watching them ricochet ... and then watching its 122mm APBC blow that Tiger to kingdom come through the front ... you know they patched it? They added some new models, but no the T-44 and JS-3 ... yet. Next patch probably.

I know. My favorite was one of the scenarios.....a ScherePanzerAbetliung
of 14 King Tigers against a company of JS-2s at point blank range ~100m
inside a town.

KT Fires ~riochets off JS-2

JS-2 Fires ~riochets off KT

and so on: the KTs had faster reload times
due to smaller ammo, and came out
slightly ahead.

[MKSheppard]

Dudes, it was nearly 70 tons...Imagine that gearbox that can handle that monster!

The M1A2 is about that weight, but we have gearboxes now that can
handle that weight reliably...but taht wasn't the case in 1945

[Sea Skimmer]

(the Tiger II was hamstrung by its own poor performance/ reliability)

In fact, 3 broke down during the filming of a propaganda film of the
new tank due to broken gearboxes

Hhahahah- have you read the Russian Battlefield article about whether the King Tiger was "really King?" Interesting reading.

I do so enjoy my JS-3s take 88mm/L71 rounds in CM2 and watching them ricochet ... and then watching its 122mm APBC blow that Tiger to kingdom come through the front ... you know they patched it? They added some new models, but no the T-44 and JS-3 ... yet. Next patch probably.

The Nazi's called the JS-2 a medium, but not the IS-3....

Though in reality, the Russians built more IS-2's in three months then the total Tiger II production run, and all those 152 Assault guns running around made things tricky anyway.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I should point out the gulf between The heavies, and the nearest compettitor.

Lets just say Tanks and Quads can field Heavy weapons

A GEV can field a medium weapon, but only at the cost of all speed. (and that is still going to fuck with everything)

everything else can only field "Light weapons"

[Renewed_Valour1]

3. Bi-peds (Just don't mount the weapons on the arms that is like the worst place for recoil)

Something like Andromeda's OE-Bots have to be using some serious inertia dampening to not be knocked right over backwards by their primary armament. Firing off 2 hypervelocity 500 to 550 mm shells at once every two seconds you have some major recoil problems.

[guyver]

The Tiger 1 and 2 tanks where very good tanks. The transmission was not bad at all in fact, it was tested after the war to see if we (Americans) should use that design. The big problem with the Tiger 1 and 2 was the engine.

The Tiger 1 was 60 tons and had a Maybach HL 230 V12 Gas motor that put out 700 horse power. She had a top speed of 25 miles per hour on firm roadways. On rough roads or across fields of mud and ice, top end was about 10 to 15 MPH at best.

The Tiger 2 was 70 tons and had the same motor as the Tiger 1. She was even slower with a top end of 20 MPH on good roads, and about 5 to 10 MPH on rough stuff.

[Pablo Sanchez]

The IS series is probably the best overall heavy tank ever designed. The Tiger II could rack up better numbers, but producing, transporting, and maintaining them was a bitch.

And we have a forum for these discussions now. Huzzah.

[Sea Skimmer]

The IS series is probably the best overall heavy tank ever designed. The Tiger II could rack up better numbers, but producing, transporting, and maintaining them was a bitch.

And we have a forum for these discussions now. Huzzah.

Definitely. The finnal production unit in the series, the T-10, resulted in both the UK and American building dedicated counters, the Conqueror and the M103. Only a few hundred of each got built though.