ID Gets Bitchslapped.........by Utah?!

[Wicked Pilot]

School Board: Intelligent Design Isn't

By Mike Cronin


To borrow a line from Dorothy: We're not in Kansas anymore.

Unlike the Kansas School Board, which earlier this summer approved allowing educators to teach theories in addition to evolution that explain life on Earth, the Utah Board of Education on Friday unanimously approved a position statement supporting the continued exclusive teaching of evolution in state classrooms.

Only two people out of the dozens who attended Friday's meeting sided with Sen. Chris Buttars, R-West Jordan, and his proposal to allow teaching "intelligent design" as a theory to explain the origins of life.

Intelligent design asserts that an intelligent force created the universe. Though advocates claim the theory does not attempt to identify the designer, many of them are affiliated with explicitly Christian-centered organizations.

One, William Dembski, who heads the Center for Theology and Science at Louisville (Ky.) Southern Seminary, even argues in his book, Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology, that the designer must be the god Christians worship.

The school board ignored Buttars' complaint that board members never invited proponents of intelligent design to participate in drafting the position statement.

The board also chose to decline his request to delay voting on the document until the senator could give a two-hour presentation arguing for intelligent design.

During the public comment period, Buttars repeated his intention to either introduce legislation to require intelligent design be a school topic, or place the issue on next year's ballot in the form of a referendum.

Speaking to board members, 10 scientists and researchers representing disciplines including biology, chemistry, geology, paleontology and engineering tried to dismantle the contention that intelligent design is based on sound science.

Instead, many called it pseudoscience and agreed with Duane Jeffery, a Brigham Young University biology professor, who put it in the same category as astrology and pyramid power.

"By definition, science does not attempt to explain the world by invoking the supernatural," University of Utah bioengineering professor Gregory Clark told the board.

"Intelligent design fails as science because it does exactly that - it posits that life is too complex to have arisen from natural causes, and instead requires the intervention of an intelligent designer who is beyond natural explanation. Invoking the supernatural can explain anything, and hence explains nothing."

Such attacks are nothing new, said Casey Luskin, a policy analyst at the Seattle-based Discovery Institute Center for Science & Culture, a right-leaning nonprofit policy and research organization.

"Intelligent design is not just a negative argument against evolution," he said. As an example, Luskin cited the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) Institute in California. Its Project Phoenix uses radio telescopes in places such as Australia, West Virginia and Puerto Rico to "listen" for signals that would provide evidence of other technological civilizations in the universe.

"SETI is an attempt to identify intelligent design in radio signals from outer space, signals with an intelligent origin rather than a natural origin," he said. "If we can try to detect intelligent design in signals we receive from outer space, why can't we detect intelligent design in genetic codes we see in biology?"

Buttars insisted that all he wants is equal time in the classroom - and it doesn't have to be the science classroom.

"Whenever anyone challenges the evolution people, they go berserk," he said. "[Evolution] is not a fact . . . We're dealing with censorship here. If we only taught Shakespeare in English class, that wouldn't be fair."

Some of the scientists retorted that science is not a democracy.

"Legitimacy is not determined by public opinion polls, radio and TV talks shows, privately published books and, most certainly, not by legislation," said Richard Tolman, a professor of biology and science education at Utah Valley State College.

Who knows if this will last, but small victories are victories nonetheless.

[Surlethe]

Well. This is an unexpected pleasant surprise.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Well. This is an unexpected pleasant surprise.

Nonsense. Clearly, some of you have underestimated Utah.

[General Zod]

Wow, shocking that this would happen in Mormon-ville, of all places. Though I did find this little gem amusing:

"SETI is an attempt to identify intelligent design in radio signals from outer space, signals with an intelligent origin rather than a natural origin," he said. "If we can try to detect intelligent design in signals we receive from outer space, why can't we detect intelligent design in genetic codes we see in biology?"

Love the way asstards like this guy prove their ignorance of the scientific method with these kind of statements. Makes you want mandatory emphasis on science classes over the insane emphasis English receives in high school.

[Noble Ire]

Wow, shocking that this would happen in Mormon-ville, of all places. Though I did find this little gem amusing:

"SETI is an attempt to identify intelligent design in radio signals from outer space, signals with an intelligent origin rather than a natural origin," he said. "If we can try to detect intelligent design in signals we receive from outer space, why can't we detect intelligent design in genetic codes we see in biology?"

Love the way asstards like this guy prove their ignorance of the scientific method with these kind of statements. Makes you want mandatory emphasis on science classes over the insane emphasis English receives in high school.

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

[tharkûn]

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

[SirNitram]

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

And for any useful discussion, there are vast differences. As in: One is produced by energetic physics reactions, the other is random chemistry spurned on by natural selection.

[SyntaxVorlon]

I have a friend whose been studying ID lately and is doing a paper with his dad because his dad is studying what design is in general. This came about because they were talking one day and he was explaining IDs definition of design and his dad went, wait a second that's not it at all.

[mr friendly guy]

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

i am going out on a limb here, but DNA contains a small amount of useful "code" interspaced with gibberish (Junk DNA etc), where the gibberish vastly outnumber the useful information. Presumably the radio signals SETI are looking for will have more of a pattern.

[CmdrWilkens]

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

And for any useful discussion, there are vast differences. As in: One is produced by energetic physics reactions, the other is random chemistry spurned on by natural selection.

Moreover if there are intelligent roots to singals in deep space then that source is an alien race...whose existence is the result of evolution somewhere other than Earth. Holy crap batman.

[Shroom Man 777]

"SETI is an attempt to identify intelligent design in radio signals from outer space, signals with an intelligent origin rather than a natural origin," he said. "If we can try to detect intelligent design in signals we receive from outer space, why can't we detect intelligent design in genetic codes we see in biology?"

Fine, go to a lab and start pray-xperimenting over breadcrumbs and clay, see if Gawd will do anything. Until then, don't bring bullshit to schools. You don't see schools teaching kids that there's definitive proof of alien life out there.

Experimenting and trying to test a hypothesis to prove its validity =/= teaching it in school

[bilateralrope]

Wow, shocking that this would happen in Mormon-ville, of all places. Though I did find this little gem amusing:

"SETI is an attempt to identify intelligent design in radio signals from outer space, signals with an intelligent origin rather than a natural origin," he said. "If we can try to detect intelligent design in signals we receive from outer space, why can't we detect intelligent design in genetic codes we see in biology?"

Love the way asstards like this guy prove their ignorance of the scientific method with these kind of statements. Makes you want mandatory emphasis on science classes over the insane emphasis English receives in high school.

When I first read it I thought that he was arguing the point against ID.

[General Zod]

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

We have a method for distinguishing differences between natural and artificial radio signals. As far as I'm aware, there is no such method to determine the difference between a naturally occuring and artificially created DNA sequence.

[anybody_mcc]

More than that, he seems to fail to understand the difference between radio signals and genetic code.

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

i am going out on a limb here, but DNA contains a small amount of useful "code" interspaced with gibberish (Junk DNA etc), where the gibberish vastly outnumber the useful information. Presumably the radio signals SETI are looking for will have more of a pattern.

But that gibberish is not that random and frankly no one knows if it is really all junk code or it has some purpose.

[Sriad]

One of my favorite arguments to present to religious folk/IDers actually comes from a Utah editorial: "Teaching Intelligent Design demeans both religion and science." Science for the obvious reasons we all know. Religion is lessened because ID teaches people that religion needs to put on a lab coat and pretend to be something else to attract believers.

[Knife]

Well. This is an unexpected pleasant surprise.

Why the surprise? Butters is a well known loon and the editorials about him and his various crusades over the last year or so have mostly been negitive.

SLC has become vastly more liberal over the last few years, more and more people are moving to Utah for jobs and whatnot, slowly chipping away at the mormon supermajority here.

Butters represents West Jordan, a small suburb and pretty conservative that's south of SLC and next door the the 'good folk' of Utah valley (provo and such) and so is safe in his job unless even the 'good folk' get tired of all the contraversy. But the rest of 'urbanized' Utah has shifted a lot over the last few years. It is in no way in danger of being a blue state, but the iron grip the mormons and other fundie like people have is slipping.

I believe I read in the paper that in the next decade, the mormons will represent only ~50% of the population. I'm looking forward to that day, perhaps I can get a good beer then.

[mr friendly guy]

In many ways, there are none. You could represent each bp as two bits and put the entire genome into a pulse sequence.

i am going out on a limb here, but DNA contains a small amount of useful "code" interspaced with gibberish (Junk DNA etc), where the gibberish vastly outnumber the useful information. Presumably the radio signals SETI are looking for will have more of a pattern.

But that gibberish is not that random and frankly no one knows if it is really all junk code or it has some purpose.

Care to elaborate on the first part of your statement? What do you mean by "not that random"? Its random, but not random enough? Either is has a recognisable pattern / purpose or it doesn't. And the second part of your statement is just "arguing from ignorance".

[Darth Servo]

SLC has become vastly more liberal over the last few years, more and more people are moving to Utah for jobs and whatnot, slowly chipping away at the mormon supermajority here.

<snip>

I believe I read in the paper that in the next decade, the mormons will represent only ~50% of the population. I'm looking forward to that day, perhaps I can get a good beer then.

You know I still don't get how you equate Mormonism with fundydom. Just because they are uber strict on alcohol? Alcohol does far more harm than good (do we REALLY need to start another debate on that one) so it severe restrictions in Utah is no mere religious superstition like many of the other fundi tennants.

The Mormon church has NEVER supported the idea of YECs. From the church's creation in the 1830s they have said this the universe is MUCH older than the 6000 years the Bible claims and many fully subscribe to ideas like theistic evolution and Genesis being an allegorical parable.

The only real issue Mormon's could be considered fundi-like is their stance on sex issues, particularly gay marriage and promiscuity.

[Knife]

Not to derail this thread, but;

You know I still don't get how you equate Mormonism with fundydom.

I equate them with fundies because a large segment of them are fundies. They believe in a set of values and a set of fairytales that are either irrational or sometimes irrational and cling to that mind set in the face of all evidence.

Just because they are uber strict on alcohol?

That is just one stand they take, but because it is the stand they take, the state goverment complies. The alcohol issue and the rules they've put in place does nothing more than create hoops you have to go through to drink, not deter it. And the only time's I hear about the 'public saftey' is after I hear about the 'word of the wise' crap.

Alcohol does far more harm than good (do we REALLY need to start another debate on that one) so it severe restrictions in Utah is no mere religious superstition like many of the other fundi tennants.

So name a state that severly limits alcohol or out right bans it that does NOT have a huge portion of it's population that are bible thumpers?

Actually since these things go off of counties rather than states, it makes it harder, however, still a majority of these counties are found in the south, right along with the bible belt.

The Mormon church has NEVER supported the idea of YECs. From the church's creation in the 1830s they have said this the universe is MUCH older than the 6000 years the Bible claims and many fully subscribe to ideas like theistic evolution and Genesis being an allegorical parable.

No, they just insist that old Aztec and other south American ruins are the ruins of a tribe of Isrealites who came over to the continent in the 5th cen BC. It's the fundemental basis of their religeon and they cling to it with a death grip even though it is blatently and proveably wrong in this modern day.

The only real issue Mormon's could be considered fundi-like is their stance on sex issues, particularly gay marriage and promiscuity.

They're as guilty of the 'family values' mind set as the bible belt, generally. Sex issues, gay issues, women issues, Codifying religeous ideals issues, ect..

This very thread is about Butters pushing a religeous viewpoint into school, science class no less. Yup, nothing fundie there.

On the alchol and drystates via churchs or religeon;

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Drivin ... 09916.html

Texas has a higher rate of alcohol related traffic accidents than California. Cali has more people than Texas, and Texas has dry counties.

http://www.uc.edu/news/wetdry.htm

A research project conducted by a University of Cincinnati geography graduate student focuses on one of the things that makes Kentucky, well, so Kentucky - its wet and dry counties.

"It is an aspect of Kentucky that seems unique, and it seems to be going away," said 30-something UC master's student Kevin Raleigh, with a touch of sadness. Wetness or dryness in the state that produces Jim Beam and Makers Mark has nothing to do with rainfall - it's about whether a county allows the sale of liquor. In 1977, Kentucky boasted 85 dry counties of its 120. When he completed his senior capstone project in fall 2000, their number had fallen to 75.

Raleigh discussed his research at a 10-minute presentation during the East Lakes Division annual meeting of the Association of American Geographers Oct. 26-28. The meeting, hosted by UC's geography department, was expected to attract more than 100 geographers to campus. Raleigh presented "Beer, Bourbon, Bootlegging, Baptists and the Bible Belt: An Examination of Religious Presence and Alcohol Status in Kentucky Counties."

A native of Kentucky's Perry County who moved to Newport at age 6, Raleigh set out to see if the number of churches in Kentucky counties was correlated to the counties' wetness or dryness.

He found that a high density of churches per people was a good predictor of its dryness. "In most cases, yes, the dry counties have more churches per people then the wet counties," Raleigh said.

For example, Letcher County is home to 149 churches and a population of about 26,069 (or 175 people per church). It's dry. Boone County, where there are 58 churches and a population of 83,356 or 1,437 people per church, is wet.

Dry counties also generally tend to be spatially clustered together, said Raleigh, who worked in the travel industry for 14 years before earning his bachelor's degree at UC in 2001. "Wet counties are in the northern part of Kentucky, all along the Ohio River. Then there are big globs of dry counties in eastern Kentucky and very few wet counties in the south."

This brings Raleigh to a discussion of where the Mason-Dixon Line really lies. "The dry counties are really where the south begins, some people say. I think there is some merit to it," he said. "The larger cities in Kentucky are a little bit northern. They tend to be more aligned with things like industry and transportation, the things that are associated with the North. Then the southern counties tend to have smaller towns, more agriculture and the kind of religious presence the South is known for."

Another aspect of the issue that strikes Raleigh is the speed with which his home state is changing, as economic development pushes more and more dry counties to vote to become wet.

"It's changing so fast...It's changing the culture of Kentucky. I know Appalachia has a lot of problems with poverty and unemployment, but by the same token it seems like the culture is being forced to adapt to something that it may or may not be ready for."

In those counties that have voted to stay dry, Raleigh wonders if the decision to stand firm lies more with the presence of churches or the presence of bootleggers. "It may be that bootleggers are trying to keep them dry, so they don't have to go out of business. But that's kind of hard to research. They don't really like people poking around there." He has no plans to pursue that at this point.

[Knife]

On Utah;

http://www.alcbev.state.ut.us/Liquor_La ... itors.html

The sale and service of alcoholic beverages is regulated by the State of Utah. Alcoholic beverage control is a concept that Utah shares with other states and countries. Utah's liquor laws are based on the general philosophy of making alcoholic beverages available in a manner that reasonably satisfies the public demand. In this respect, however, the state does not promote or encourage the sale or use of alcohol.

If the state didn't wish to either promote or encourage drinking, perhaps it should get out of the bussiness of selling alcohol, don't ya think?

[Darth Servo]

I equate them with fundies because a large segment of them are fundies.

Nice subjective statement there. Got any hard figures? As this thread proves, most people in Utah do NOT support ID and they certainly don't accept the idea of Biblical infalliability (two of the biggest problems of fundydom).

They believe in a set of values and a set of fairytales that are either irrational or sometimes irrational and cling to that mind set in the face of all evidence.

Then EVERY Christian religion is a fundi one since they ALL accpt the irrational idea of that invisible man in the sky.

EVERY religion is irrational. Strict does not equal fundy. As I already acknowledged, they ARE fundyish when it comes to sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman. But that does NOT equate them with wanting to force others to

Just because they are uber strict on alcohol?

That is just one stand they take, but because it is the stand they take, the state goverment complies.

Appeal to motive fallacy.

The alcohol issue and the rules they've put in place does nothing more than create hoops you have to go through to drink, not deter it.

So you admit you CAN get a drink in Utah. So what the fuck are you complaining about? That its DIFFICULT? Oh, poor baby, he has a hard time getting his favorite crutch. In reality, drinking is just as much a way of avoiding reality as religion is.

And the only time's I hear about the 'public saftey' is after I hear about the 'word of the wise' crap.

What is this "word to the wise crap"?

Alcohol does far more harm than good (do we REALLY need to start another debate on that one) so it severe restrictions in Utah is no mere religious superstition like many of the other fundi tennants.

So name a state that severly limits alcohol or out right bans it that does NOT have a huge portion of it's population that are bible thumpers? Actually since these things go off of counties rather than states, it makes it harder, however, still a majority of these counties are found in the south, right along with the bible belt.

Guilty by association fallacy. The fact that fundies are against something does NOT mean that something is necessarily good or bad.

Fundies are genreally against freedom of religion. That is a BAD position because we can DEMONSTRATE how freedom of religion helps society. It is NOT a bad position simply because fundies are for it.

No, they just insist that old Aztec and other south American ruins are the ruins of a tribe of Isrealites who came over to the continent in the 5th cen BC. It's the fundemental basis of their religeon and they cling to it with a death grip even though it is blatently and proveably wrong in this modern day.

Just like mainstream christianity believes ancient Israel spent 40 years marching around between Egypt and Israel, even though there is just as much evidence for this claim as there is for Israelites in ancient America.

The only real issue Mormon's could be considered fundi-like is their stance on sex issues, particularly gay marriage and promiscuity.

They're as guilty of the 'family values' mind set as the bible belt, generally. Sex issues, gay issues, women issues, Codifying religeous ideals issues, ect..

OK, you have a point there.

This very thread is about Butters pushing a religeous viewpoint into school, science class no less. Yup, nothing fundie there.

And ONE person determines what the everyone else in that religion is like? Nice hasty generalization. The fact that a professor and the church's big indoctrination university BYU is staunchly AGAINST ID doesn't even phase you in the slightest in your tirade to lump them all into the fundy category, does it?

On the alchol and drystates via churchs or religeon;

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Drivin ... 09916.html

Texas has a higher rate of alcohol related traffic accidents than California. Cali has more people than Texas, and Texas has dry counties.

nless Utah has this same policy, it is irrelevant. And its pretty EASY to see how dry counties would increase alocohol trafic accidents since you need to, you know DRIVE to another county to get your alcohol.

If the state didn't wish to either promote or encourage drinking, perhaps it should get out of the bussiness of selling alcohol, don't ya think?

Ah, I see, so if their policy doesn't completely eliminate drinking, it must not be doing any good at all? Gottcha.

[Darth Servo]

This very thread is about Butters pushing a religeous viewpoint into school, science class no less. Yup, nothing fundie there.

No, asshole, this thread is about teaching the idea of ID being UNANIMOUSLY struck down by the Utah Legislature. Read the fucking thread title: "ID Gets Bitchslapped.........by Utah?!" But I guess you can't be bothered with such trivialities as the thread title. Oh yeah, thats REAL fundish.

note: see, I can click on the rolls eyes icons too.

[Darth Servo]

edit: replace "legislature" with "board of edu"

[Knife]

Nice subjective statement there. Got any hard figures? As this thread proves, most people in Utah do NOT support ID and they certainly don't accept the idea of Biblical infalliability (two of the biggest problems of fundydom).

OH no, they don't believe in ID, therefore they can't be 'fundies'. And on the biblical infalliability, they beleive that Aztec structures are made by an Isreali tribe ~1000 years before they (the Aztecs) made them. Yes, in their own way, they believe in biblical infallibility, just the bible some dude wrote when the other dude read it out of a hat.

Then EVERY Christian religion is a fundi one since they ALL accpt the irrational idea of that invisible man in the sky.

Good to have you aboard, then.

EVERY religion is irrational. Strict does not equal fundy. As I already acknowledged, they ARE fundyish when it comes to sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman. But that does NOT equate them with wanting to force others to

Ah, so the Utah porn Czar wasn't forcing a view on anyone, the current attempt of blocking porn isn't either. The passed amendment on the referendum to ban gay marrage or to do the 'marrage=one dude and one chick' dosen't force their views on anyone? Gottcha.

Appeal to motive fallacy.

Show the secular State that has simular laws restricting alcohol, I can show many states with a high degree of religeous 'family values' in them with dry or partially dry counties it them.

So you admit you CAN get a drink in Utah. So what the fuck are you complaining about? That its DIFFICULT? Oh, poor baby, he has a hard time getting his favorite crutch. In reality, drinking is just as much a way of avoiding reality as religion is.

Please, the 3.0 laws in Utah date back to prohibition, it remained 3.0 so the damn people could still take cough surup back then. Maintaining it at 3.0 is nothing but appeal to tradition. And there are many escapes from reality, the internet is one as well.

Yes you can drink in Utah, but that does not change the fact that you have to jump through piles of beuracracy to do it and navigate stupid laws. Because of the culture, at one time since smacked down by the 10th circut, they couldn't advertise wine but beer. Before another smack down, you could not order another drink before you could clearly show your current drink was gone.

These laws do nothing to curtail alcohol abuse and usually just hurt the consumer. A couple years ago there was a big brew-ha from the CEO of Iomega complaining about said redtape bullshit that was hurting bussiness from getting people to move out here for jobs. Following that was the big ruckuss for the 2002 Olypics were they wanted to loosen them up for the tourists.

So yes, I can drink, but I shouldn't have to put up with 'feel good laws' that make it a pain and do nothing of consequence to any problem that stems from Alcohol.

What is this "word to the wise crap"?

The Mormon doctrine that is the basis for some of their values positions. And it's Word of the wise.

http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89

It's not surprising considering the era it was made, no alcohol, no tobacco, shit like that. The hot drink one is odd. However, if I may add, the founding 'pioneers' in the SL valley did brew/make alcohol and sold it to miners and passerbyers for a nice tidy profit.

Guilty by association fallacy. The fact that fundies are against something does NOT mean that something is necessarily good or bad.

Fundies are genreally against freedom of religion. That is a BAD position because we can DEMONSTRATE how freedom of religion helps society. It is NOT a bad position simply because fundies are for it.

Restricting rights or even substances based off of religeous view points are bad! If it were purely a 'public saftey' argument, then fine, but when you point to religeous doctrine as your proof, then it becomes the 'broken clock is right twice a day' bullshit.

Just like mainstream christianity believes ancient Israel spent 40 years marching around between Egypt and Israel, even though there is just as much evidence for this claim as there is for Israelites in ancient America.

Which makes them fundlementalists! If you believe in something that is not only wrong but can be demostrated as wrong, beyond the pale, and still believe in it, you have crossed the line of rational thought.

They're as guilty of the 'family values' mind set as the bible belt, generally. Sex issues, gay issues, women issues, Codifying religeous ideals issues, ect..

OK, you have a point there.[/quote]

Middle ground. Cool.

And ONE person determines what the everyone else in that religion is like? Nice hasty generalization. The fact that a professor and the church's big indoctrination university BYU is staunchly AGAINST ID doesn't even phase you in the slightest in your tirade to lump them all into the fundy category, does it?

Actually, I thought I tried hard to insert 'generally' and such. Not all Mormons are fundies nor are all Christians fundies. As usual, there is the loud minority playing the majority.

nless Utah has this same policy, it is irrelevant. And its pretty EASY to see how dry counties would increase alocohol trafic accidents since you need to, you know DRIVE to another county to get your alcohol.

It is an example of how codifying religeous 'family values' doesn't necessarily work. THose that wish to drink, still will and 'hiding' from the problem doesn't necessarily solve it. Utah isn't as extreme, but it's silly law after silly law doesn't solve the problems (precieved or real) and is just a pain in the ass to the customers with no real benifit other than the large sums of 'sin' tax.

Ah, I see, so if their policy doesn't completely eliminate drinking, it must not be doing any good at all? Gottcha.

Their policy doesn't do jack shit. A policy doesn't have to be perfect, but it should atleast try to accomplish what it was intended for. So if the only effective thing it does is bring in revenue, then the other bullshit laws that just make it a pain, do not need to be there.

[Zero]

Knife, if your definition of fundamentalism is simply all people who hold irrational beliefs, then the word fundamentalism has no purpose at all. All religious belief systems follow irrational beliefs.

From dictionary.com

fun·da·men·tal·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fnd-mntl-zm)
n.
1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

2. a. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
b. Adherence to the theology of this movement.

I don't believe that's quite the same thing as simple irrationality.