The religious thank God for their hurricane

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Faithful Try to Find Meaning in the Wake of Disaster
# Throughout the region shattered by Katrina, survivors give thanks and seek answers.

By P.J. Huffstutter, John-Thor Dahlburg and Steve Chawkins, Times Staff Writers

BILOXI, Miss. — The multitudes whose lives were shattered by Hurricane Katrina gathered in religious services Sunday wherever the winds had tossed them, giving thanks for their survival and praying for the loved ones who are still missing.

They cried, they embraced, they sought answers, they shouted hallelujahs, and some made somber, solemn announcements.

In Biloxi, a couple dozen worshippers met on the steps of Our Mother of Sorrows, a ravaged Catholic church. The 92-year-old, white-brick building is boarded up, and its walkway is nearly blocked by downed trees. A sign with vivid red Xs gives grim, good news to those versed in disaster shorthand: This place has been searched and no bodies were found.

At Our Mother of Sorrows, the windows were smashed and the roof was virtually gone. Inside, the pews have been tossed around like children's toys. But at least the structure — the city's first predominantly black Catholic church — still stood and its Virgin Mary statue, while toppled, was unbroken.

"You have to have faith that this was all for a reason," said Bernadette Warick, 54, a finance manager who weathered the storm in a rapidly flooding house with eight female relatives and a baby. "We are not supposed to understand. We are just supposed to believe."

Unable to enter the building, a priest at Our Mother of Sorrows grabbed a board from a pile of debris, set it across the arms of a lawn chair and gingerly draped it with a white silk altar cloth.

"A sense of hope, that's all we have to give each other right now," Father Gregory Baras said. "Some of us don't have homes; some of us don't have water, electricity or food. But all of us have a sense of God inside us to help us keep hope alive."

Many of his parishioners could not put words to their dilemmas. At one point in the service, a man walked around the corner of the building, leaned against the mud-encrusted bricks and sobbed.

Others could barely stop telling the harrowing stories of their ordeals.

A 56-year-old woman named Johnnie Smith said she and her husband stacked their living-room furniture, climbed on top and ended up pressing themselves into a skylight alcove as the water surged upward.

Clinging to the frame, Smith looked at her husband and said, "I think we're dead."

As he grabbed a floating stick, he told her that they would make it — and they did.

Throughout the ravaged Gulf Coast, the faithful tried to find meaning in the mountains of mud and debris that suddenly had replaced their homes, their schools, their workplaces and their churches.

In Pascagoula, Miss., some 80 worshippers belted out: "A mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing" in the sanctuary of the First Baptist Church, whose steeple had crashed to the ground in Katrina's furious winds.

In the dimness of a church with a leaky roof and no lights, Pastor Rex Yancy exhorted his flock to take heart, echoing a message that resounded at churches throughout the South.

"We have been hit hard — everybody has been hit hard — but we are going to make it," Yancy said. "We are going to survive."

The pastor, whose own home and those of his three staff members were soggy ruins, said he had bathed that morning by dousing himself with a gallon of cold water. As the water poured down, he exclaimed: "Thank you Jesus!"

That jolt of jubilation resonated with Yancy's pared-down congregation. Hundreds had left the area, but those who showed up uttered soft "amens" and offered warm hugs on finding that old friends were still alive.

When gratitude will give way to grinding despair is something no one can say.

"People are resilient immediately after a disaster," said Yancy, who has been a minister for 40 years. "But eventually, little things — like not having toilets that flush — wear many people down."

Their awesome god is so powerful that he could have prevented the hurricane if he wanted but instead let it kill hundreds of people. Let's all now thank this god for his mercy that he let some survive the disaster.

[Civil War Man]

Hey, they claim God is all-powerful and benevolent. They never said anything about him being immensely lazy or possessing a poor work ethic.

[General Zod]

Did anyone else think this thread would be about Fred Phelps praising hallejuahs over the hurricane washing away the sinful New Orleans?

[Guardsman Bass]

Did anyone else think this thread would be about Fred Phelps praising hallejuahs over the hurricane washing away the sinful New Orleans?

Not really, since the title was "thank god for their hurricane," not "thank God for hurricane's destruction."

[Guardsman Bass]

Actually, if you are a Christian, this could be Satan's work; he is described as being "Lord of the many waters."

[FedRebel]

Faithful Try to Find Meaning in the Wake of Disaster

Long sotry short a hurrican formed in the atlantic and hit New Orleans

And thanks to political incompetencethe rescue effort is far more difficult than it should be

# Throughout the region shattered by Katrina, survivors give thanks and seek answers.

Give thanks for what?

The misuse of city assets (buses just sitting at the yards) when the evacuation order was given?

That 'God' spared their lives while destroying their homes, killing family and friends?

Or that 'God' spared those who are now shooting rescuers or looting?

"You have to have faith that this was all for a reason," said Bernadette Warick, 54, a finance manager who weathered the storm in a rapidly flooding house with eight female relatives and a baby.

The reason for this hurricane is the same as any other, and the leeves breaking where the result of politics

"We are not supposed to understand. We are just supposed to believe."

It's easy to 'understand' what happened, and a supreme bieng didn't appear to be the direct cause

A 56-year-old woman named Johnnie Smith said she and her husband stacked their living-room furniture, climbed on top and ended up pressing themselves into a skylight alcove as the water surged upward.

Clinging to the frame, Smith looked at her husband and said, "I think we're dead."

As he grabbed a floating stick, he told her that they would make it — and they did.

And they didn't evac before the storm because...?

Throughout the ravaged Gulf Coast, the faithful tried to find meaning in the mountains of mud and debris that suddenly had replaced their homes, their schools, their workplaces and their churches.

You see every year in the atlantic....

There is no 'special' meaning, it's the weather system of this planet operating as it always does and always will

Various climatic variables affect the the storms path and it just so happens that just like some hurricanes in the past it hit there, but unlike previous storms that hit the region it was a little stronger

In Pascagoula, Miss., some 80 worshippers belted out: "A mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing" in the sanctuary of the First Baptist Church, whose steeple had crashed to the ground in Katrina's furious winds.

'A mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing'

Yet his temples fall and his worshipers suffer?

For what? Killing the wicked? If that was it , he did a sloppy job (ie. people shooting at rescuers

The pastor, whose own home and those of his three staff members were soggy ruins, said he had bathed that morning by dousing himself with a gallon of cold water. As the water poured down, he exclaimed: "Thank you Jesus!"

Yes, thank you JC for letting 'daddy' slaughter thousands and ruin the lives of thousands more for no apparent purpose.

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
Their awesome god is so powerful that he could have prevented the hurricane if he wanted but instead let it kill hundreds of people. Let's all now thank this god for his mercy that he let some survive the disaster.

perhaps he tryed, after all that last minute front prevented Katrina from hitting NO head on. Or maybe he wanted to destroy the city (it's crime rate was a tad high) but all the therapy he's been through made him a we bit rusty in the city destroying department.

Then again it might be poker night in heaven and this is part of some twisted bet with Satan.

Guardsman Bass wrote:
Actually, if you are a Christian, this could be Satan's work; he is described as being "Lord of the many waters."

possible, though why didn't 'God' intervene?

[Master of Ossus]

One thing I find funny about religion is that God is really into doing two things: testing people and punishing them. Neither really makes any sense to me. If I were an omniscient being, why the fuck would I have to test anyone? If I were an omnipowerful being who had all of eternity to damn people to hell, why the hell would I bother punishing them while they were alive? It's not like a hurricane that destroys your property should be particularly serious next to an eternity in hell. Am I just that vindictive?

[The Guid]

One thing I find funny about religion is that God is really into doing two things: testing people and punishing them.

Don't generalise all religous into one category. I believe God does neither of these things. I don't believe God caused the hurricane. These people seek answers to questions that can be explained by science.

[Master of Ossus]

One thing I find funny about religion is that God is really into doing two things: testing people and punishing them.

Don't generalise all religous into one category. I believe God does neither of these things. I don't believe God caused the hurricane. These people seek answers to questions that can be explained by science.

Then you believe in some sort of watchmaker God who doesn't interfere at all with the universe that he created?

[Surlethe]

Regardless of whatever else it does, a strong religion like some strains of Christianity is a good way to keep people opimistic and hopeful: they still believe they have something to which to look forward; and they believe God is in control of their lives. It's like being a small child again, except on a much larger scale.

[sketerpot]

Guardsman Bass wrote:
Actually, if you are a Christian, this could be Satan's work; he is described as being "Lord of the many waters."

possible, though why didn't 'God' intervene?

The all-purpose answer to questions like this is the phrase "free will". I don't know how, but that one phrase renders God immune to logical arguments like that one. It's truly amazing, praise God!

[The Guid]

One thing I find funny about religion is that God is really into doing two things: testing people and punishing them.

Don't generalise all religous into one category. I believe God does neither of these things. I don't believe God caused the hurricane. These people seek answers to questions that can be explained by science.

Then you believe in some sort of watchmaker God who doesn't interfere at all with the universe that he created?

Not in a physical sense, no.

The all-purpose answer to questions like this is the phrase "free will". I don't know how, but that one phrase renders God immune to logical arguments like that one. It's truly amazing, praise God!

So if a hurricane suddenly dissapeared off the map with no explanation you think you'd not believe in God? And if every time that seemed to happen? If science could not explain why earthquakes never happened, why volcanoes never happened and why tornadoes and hurricanes never happened? And, to take the argument further, nobody ever died from anything apart from old age?

[Kuroneko]

So if a hurricane suddenly dissapeared off the map with no explanation you think you'd not believe in God? And if every time that seemed to happen? If science could not explain why earthquakes never happened, why volcanoes never happened and why tornadoes and hurricanes never happened? And, to take the argument further, nobody ever died from anything apart from old age?

What's rational to believe in such a world is debatable, but why is it relevant here? No miraculuous intervention did, in fact, occur, and tornadoes, hurricanes, and volcanoes do actually happen. This hypothetical reality is completely tangent to the claims that if there was a God, there should have been intervention and that there was no such intervention.

[The Guid]

So if a hurricane suddenly dissapeared off the map with no explanation you think you'd not believe in God? And if every time that seemed to happen? If science could not explain why earthquakes never happened, why volcanoes never happened and why tornadoes and hurricanes never happened? And, to take the argument further, nobody ever died from anything apart from old age?

What's rational to believe in such a world is debatable, but why is it relevant here? No miraculuous intervention did, in fact, occur, and tornadoes, hurricanes, and volcanoes do actually happen. This hypothetical reality is completely tangent to the claims that if there was a God, there should have been intervention and that there was no such intervention.

It is relevent here becaue people are suggesting that were there a God then such things as this terrible Hurricane would not occur. I am trying to show that, for once, it is the atheists who are being somewhat illogical.

[Kuroneko]

It is relevent here becaue people are suggesting that were there a God then such things as this terrible Hurricane would not occur.

That's effectively what was claimed, yes.

I am trying to show that, for once, it is the atheists who are being somewhat illogical.

And you seek to do this by hypothesizing a contrary situtation and supposing that "the atheists" would be illogical there? What one should do and what "the atheists" would do in your hypothetical case are completely irrelevant to the above claim.

[The Guid]

It is relevent here becaue people are suggesting that were there a God then such things as this terrible Hurricane would not occur.

That's effectively what was claimed, yes.

I am trying to show that, for once, it is the atheists who are being somewhat illogical.

And you seek to do this by hypothesizing a contrary situtation and supposing that "the atheists" would be illogical there? What one should do and what "the atheists" would do in your hypothetical case are completely irrelevant to the above claim.

I am clearly not making myself understood. I am pointing out that the only alternative to a situation where natural disasters take place is a world where everyone is safe from anything apart from death from old age. What makes a hurricane so different from other things that kill people prematurely such as volcanoes or disease? If God stretches out his mighty arm, for wont of a better term, and shields people from a hurricane then the whole concept of free will is gone - particularly as if he did not save all from such disasters he would be raising one human life above another - something that I do not believe is right.

[Zero]

In essence, you're saying that if God were responsible to protect us from all, we'd never develope a sense of independence or personal responsibility, and thus develope a significantly lessened drive to improve?

Or is that just a bonus to the "free will" thing?

[The Guid]

In essence, you're saying that if God were responsible to protect us from all, we'd never develope a sense of independence or personal responsibility, and thus develope a significantly lessened drive to improve?

Or is that just a bonus to the "free will" thing?

That's also part of it. Plus the theory that love is very difficult to have without some semblence of suffering or need.

[Kuroneko]

I am clearly not making myself understood. I am pointing out that the only alternative to a situation where natural disasters take place is a world where everyone is safe from anything apart from death from old age. What makes a hurricane so different from other things that kill people prematurely such as volcanoes or disease? If God stretches out his mighty arm, for wont of a better term, and shields people from a hurricane then the whole concept of free will is gone - particularly as if he did not save all from such disasters he would be raising one human life above another - something that I do not believe is right.

Two questions: (1) Why does removing the destructiveness of volcanoes and disease violate free will? (2) What is free will, anyway?

[The Guid]

1. If the world truly was perfect, free of death and natural evil in such a way that made the existence of God clear then our free will (see below) would, so the theory goes, be comprimised.

2. The ability to choose God freely, and to love God freely.

BTW, I am going to bed now so I won't reply for a bit. Not from lack of interest or inability to answer (I hope!)

[Wicked Pilot]

"You have to have faith that this was all for a reason," said Bernadette Warick, 54, a finance manager who weathered the storm in a rapidly flooding house with eight female relatives and a baby. "We are not supposed to understand. We are just supposed to believe."

He's from Mississippi, so you know he got lucky with most of them.

[Zero]

Free will may have nothing to do with it. Has anyone ever read the Night's Dawn trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton?

In that series, the Kiint refused to give technologies to the human civilization because they believed that if they were to give us all that we needed, advance would stagnate, and we would never achieve a potential beyond what they gave us. If I were a God, I may use similar logic towards humanity. After all, realistically, if there were a God, what could we be but his experiment? Perhaps his interest lies in our ability to overcome ourselves and our environment, and seeing what ways we do this.

Of course, to believe this, you would have to believe that this God wasn't all-knowing, and such a God wouldn't likely have interfered in the past either, meaning that this would relate to the God you speak of in precious few ways.

[Zero]

1. If the world truly was perfect, free of death and natural evil in such a way that made the existence of God clear then our free will (see below) would, so the theory goes, be comprimised.

2. The ability to choose God freely, and to love God freely.

1 doesn't explain what it is, and 2 isn't violated in any way by protecting us. We could still choose to hate our protector. For instance, if I give a child candy, he doesn't have to love me. If I stop him from drowning, he doesn't even have to know I exist.

[mr friendly guy]

"You have to have faith that this was all for a reason," said Bernadette Warick, 54, a finance manager who weathered the storm in a rapidly flooding house with eight female relatives and a baby. "We are not supposed to understand. We are just supposed to believe."

The religious reason is God is a vindictive SOB who enjoys people suffering.

The proper reason is that God doesn't exist and you should look up science's explanation for why the hurricane formed in the first place.

[Kuroneko]

1. If the world truly was perfect, free of death and natural evil in such a way that made the existence of God clear then our free will (see below) would, so the theory goes, be comprimised.

Well, perhaps in limited your sense of free will (I'm still uncertain as to what that entails; see below), but in more typical accounts, surely God could remove natural distasters without violating someone's ability to act. After all, removing them alone still leaves room for the evils people choose to do to themselves.

2. The ability to choose God freely, and to love God freely.

In light of your answer to the former question, do you believe that a child's love for a parent is not free, i.e., that is somehow 'coerced' or 'forced' or 'bought' by the parent, perhaps by the provision of certain goods, or in some other way?