What if Federation joined the Old Republic???

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2005-09-07 03:35pm

Lets say Federation ecountered the Old Republic through a stable wormhole, about 15 years before Kirks era and they quickly becomes good friends and trade starts.

Federation gains the following through the years:
- SW weapons and technology.
- TNG era Federation joins Old Republic (10 years prior to Clone Wars).
- At the time of TNG era, Federation is still 8000 lightyears across, 150 member worlds + thousands of colonies.
- Federation fleet are 1500 ships strong, their ships are equal as powerful as Old Republic warships.
- The knowledge of the Force spreads to Federation member worlds + allies.
- Federation posses the firepower and strength to repel any major invasion from any other Trek powers.
- Federation gets a strong postition in the Galactic Senate.

But as Federation currently thrives, the tension between the seperatists and the Old Republic rises, and Federation has given assurances war might be inevitable and starts gearing up for war.

What oppertunities do you think Palpatine could gain from a new power as the Federation???
How do you think the Federation can handle the crises situations that will occur during the different eras such as...
the Clone Wars?
the rise of the Empire?
Will Federation with SW tech be able to thwart off the New Order if they didn't want to join the New Order but rather stay true to the ideals of the Old Republic?
Galactic civil wars?
The threat from the Death Star?
Threat from various Warlords?
Yuuzhan Vong?

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-09-07 03:58pm

Well, This has FanFic written all over it

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-09-07 04:00pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Well, This has FanFic written all over it

Yeah...I do believe there's some obscure one called Twilight War that addresses some of this.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2005-09-07 04:14pm

Stravo wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Well, This has FanFic written all over it
Yeah...I do believe there's some obscure one called Twilight War that addresses some of this.

There is? Gee, I think I remember now, but it would help my memory so much if there was an update...

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2005-09-07 04:16pm

If the New and Old Republic themselves get badly hammered by whichever foe you throw at them, why would the tiny Federation handle it any better, if at all?

the Clone Wars?
the rise of the Empire?
Will Federation with SW tech be able to thwart off the New Order if they didn't want to join the New Order but rather stay true to the ideals of the Old Republic?
Galactic civil wars?
The threat from the Death Star?
Threat from various Warlords?

They fare no better, and probably much worse, than the Galactic Republic, which is substantially larger.

Yuuzhan Vong

Although the Vong are a bunch of candy stripers, they still roundly kicked the NR's ass until very late in the going. The Federation gets gang-raped by the Vong.

Spetulhu · Post by **Spetulhu** » 2005-09-07 04:40pm

Yay! First post! Greetings all!

Back to the topic:
150 worlds in a remote corner of the known universe? Why would anyone bother them at all? I'd guess most ripples in the SW galaxy just pass this Federation without a thought. There's important planets to capture if you want to rule the galaxy.

Hmm. 10 years before the Clone Wars? The Feds would probably support the Old Republic in some small way during the war. There wouldn't be that many fully trained Jedis from the Fed worlds at the end, when Palpatine makes his move. No bad feelings about that. No need to resist the New Order - it's just a natural thing after the Jedis became enemies of the Republic.

Civil wars? Rebels? I can't see the SW Rebels setting up camp in Fed space if there's just a wormhole to travel through. They'd have little or no chance to get through if the New Order guards this route. The Federation wouldn't need to rebel at all as long as the Empire doesn't do anything too rash. People seem to be happy if there's food and entertainment.

Warlords? Vong? Why would these guys be trying to get through a wormhole when there's a whole SW galaxy to conquer?

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2005-09-07 05:18pm

Spetulhu wrote: Yay! First post! Greetings all!

Back to the topic:
150 worlds in a remote corner of the known universe? Why would anyone bother them at all? I'd guess most ripples in the SW galaxy just pass this Federation without a thought. There's important planets to capture if you want to rule the galaxy.

Because that is how I have set it up, so take it from there.

Spetulhu wrote:
Civil wars? Rebels? I can't see the SW Rebels setting up camp in Fed space if there's just a wormhole to travel through. They'd have little or no chance to get through if the New Order guards this route.

The Empire might have trust in the Federation to guard the wormhole themselves. If not however the Rebel Alliance could infiltrate ships that happens to pass by in and out. The wormhole is supposed to be a major trade rout to the Trek galaxy, ships that passes by mostly goes to Federation worlds, shouldn't be a problem to set up a small camp.

Spetulhu wrote:
Warlords? Vong? Why would these guys be trying to get through a wormhole when there's a whole SW galaxy to conquer?

You are assuming there might not be Imperial forces in Federation space during the time of the reign of Galactic Empire? Assuming GE treats Federation just like the Hapans, they will most likely station some ships in their space to garantee Federation's loyalty.
If the Empire collapsed you don't think the Imperial forces stationed in Federation space would try to carve out a small empire for themselves, likely close to Federation space, maybe wage war upon the Klingon Empire or someone else who does not possess SW tech, and intergrate them as a labor force. Any power except the Federation in this case would almost be defenseless against Imperial starships and easy pickings.

The stability of the SW galaxy would most likely be in Federation interests. If NR was defeated by Thrawn for example or Reborn Palpatine, I don't think Federation can afford not to take a stand in situations like these.

Regarding the Vong I didn't exactly say they would try to invade Trek galaxy, but if they did fully conquer NR you don't think they would turn their eye towards Federation???
I think it is better to act early then it is too late.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-09-07 05:22pm

Stravo wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Well, This has FanFic written all over it
Yeah...I do believe there's some obscure one called Twilight War that addresses some of this.

Yeah but that author's a hack. He keeps trying to copy that talented fellow who writes Starcrossed.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2005-09-07 05:28pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Well, This has FanFic written all over it

Well if someone wants to write a fanfic losely based on this then I would love to read it.

Spetulhu · Post by **Spetulhu** » 2005-09-07 07:09pm

Dark Primus wrote:The Empire might have trust in the Federation to guard the wormhole themselves. If not however the Rebel Alliance could infiltrate ships that happens to pass by in and out. The wormhole is supposed to be a major trade rout to the Trek galaxy, ships that passes by mostly goes to Federation worlds, shouldn't be a problem to set up a small camp.

It's not that it would be hard to get in, but getting out once the Empire finds out Rebels are operating from there. A lot of important leaders might be trapped in the wrong galaxy if the wormhole is blocked by the Imperial Navy looking to blow up any suspicious ships. So what if the Imps can't catch them? They can't get back home to do their rebellion thing.

Dark Primus wrote: You are assuming there might not be Imperial forces in Federation space during the time of the reign of Galactic Empire? Assuming GE treats Federation just like the Hapans, they will most likely station some ships in their space to garantee Federation's loyalty. snip

I just don't see the point in someone detouring to the ST galaxy when he's going for control of the SW galaxy. A member area numbering 150 worlds isn't going to be very important when it comes to attacking the Empire, especially considering it's accessible only by a wormhole. Same point as the Rebel leadership.

As for any Imperial ships being stranded there when the Empire collapses, they'll probably do what looks best to their commander. Establish a new dominion or go home. It's not everyone who can think of carving out a personal empire if there are home worlds to return to. How long have these forces been in Federation space?

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-09-07 07:39pm

What oppertunities do you think Palpatine could gain from a new power as the Federation???

It may be a convenient place to hide MULTIPLE clone factories and shipyards, as anyone who comes to investigate must go through the wormhole, and a flotilla of warships guarding either wormhole opening would quickly end Obi-Wan's investigation.

How do you think the Federation can handle the crises situations that will occur during the different eras such as...
the Clone Wars?

They'd buy propaganda against the Seperatists and actively support the Old Republic. Even if the CIS conquers the Federation, they'd face guerilla warfare so vicious it would be a Pyrrhic victory, like the Cardassian occupation of Bajor.

the rise of the Empire?
Will Federation with SW tech be able to thwart off the New Order if they didn't want to join the New Order but rather stay true to the ideals of the Old Republic?

If Palpatine successfully plants sympathizers within the Fed government before and during the Clone Wars, sympathizers who spend years spreading propaganda all over the Alpha Quadrant, the Feds might calmly accept the Empire's rise and support Palpatine. If not, Starfleet might try to close the wormhole or, failing that, form their own "Rebel Alliance" with those who have something to lose if the Empire successfully holds the quadrant, like the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and the Dominion.

Yuuzhan Vong?

If worse comes to worse, they can simply close the wormhole. Cut off from reinforcements and forced to live off the land, the Vong invasion force will eventually be wiped out. (It might take the Feds decades, but they'd do it.)

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2005-09-08 12:54pm

Spetulhu wrote:
It's not that it would be hard to get in, but getting out once the Empire finds out Rebels are operating from there. A lot of important leaders might be trapped in the wrong galaxy if the wormhole is blocked by the Imperial Navy looking to blow up any suspicious ships. So what if the Imps can't catch them? They can't get back home to do their rebellion thing.

Ok, well it is obvious they wont send in their most important leaders unless they have gurantees they can get in and out through the wormhole. In the beginning they would most likely send in spies or less important people in to establish contact with whoever they want.

Spetulhu wrote:
I just don't see the point in someone detouring to the ST galaxy when he's going for control of the SW galaxy.

Neither do I.

Spetulhu wrote:
A member area numbering 150 worlds isn't going to be very important when it comes to attacking the Empire, especially considering it's accessible only by a wormhole. Same point as the Rebel leadership.

Attacking the Empire???

Spetulhu wrote: As for any Imperial ships being stranded there when the Empire collapses, they'll probably do what looks best to their commander. Establish a new dominion or go home. It's not everyone who can think of carving out a personal empire if there are home worlds to return to. How long have these forces been in Federation space?

Unknown, you have to use your own imagination to what YOU think.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2005-09-08 01:06pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote: If the New and Old Republic themselves get badly hammered by whichever foe you throw at them, why would the tiny Federation handle it any better, if at all?

Better? Well Federation will probably not be in the center of attention in any of these conflicts, they might get invaded by the Confederation or they may not. But what do you think they could contribute to the historical events I laid out?

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
They fare no better, and probably much worse, than the Galactic Republic, which is substantially larger.

Why wouldn't they fare better if they are not in the center of attention in these conflicts? Sure Federation can get invaded by powerful Imperial warlords, rogue admirals etc if they have resources to it that is.

Yuuzhan Vong

Although the Vong are a bunch of candy stripers, they still roundly kicked the NR's ass until very late in the going. The Federation gets gang-raped by the Vong. [/quote]

I doubt Vong would concentrate much of their forces upon Federation before they have utterly crushed NR. Otherwise I think there will only be raids and small hit and run attacks, However i think Federation could harass YV forces by hundreds of warships, taking few systems at the time, when YV has stretched their forces to thin.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-09-08 04:44pm

Even with wars-tech the Federation of the TNG-era would equal nothing more, but a small sector of the empire.

Spetulhu · Post by **Spetulhu** » 2005-09-08 05:07pm

Dark Primus wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
A member area numbering 150 worlds isn't going to be very important when it comes to attacking the Empire, especially considering it's accessible only by a wormhole. Same point as the Rebel leadership.
Attacking the Empire???

Sorry, that should have been "attacking the Star Wars galaxy". No matter if it's the Old Republic, the Empire or the New Republic in control they're all too much for someone using the Federation as a starting point. It's just not worth trying to subvert or conquer the area for use in war - unless it's against the other denizens of ST.

I did think a bit more on the situation, though. That wormhole makes it possible for the Feds to close down relations if things get too hot in the other galaxy. The Vong certainly look like that kind of trouble to me, so bye bye wormhole. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether there's an Imperial Warlord in control of Fed space or if it's quietly joined the NR after the Emperor died.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2005-09-08 05:51pm

Dark Primus wrote:snip

The Federation is a backwater. Either it gets completely ignored (after all it's pitiful navy only comprises 1500 warships) or rapidly overrun by the Empire. Take your pick, I'm leaning towards ignored as unimportant.

Obviously, however, you want to make the Federation the focus of some activity (or else you wouldn't have asked the question), so I'd say that the first time the Rebellion sets up in the Federation, the Empire gets annoyed and sends a fleet to squash the Federation.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-09-08 10:59pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Although the Vong are a bunch of candy stripers, they still roundly kicked the NR's ass until very late in the going. The Federation gets gang-raped by the Vong.

Don't be so sure. Bad as the Federation might be, no one could hold a candle to the utter incompetence and sheer uselessness of the NJO era New Republic. It is in fact the least believable part of the entire EU. The Vong are in reality quite a weak power that can all fit onto one planet. If the Federation has SW level tech and industry + gets its shit together, it might be able to hold them.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-09-09 12:33am

Considering the UFP fleet around TNG times is comparable in size to the NR fleet that beat the Vong sensless, if those size numbers were kept with Star Wars military technology, combined with UFP 'swiss army subspace tech', yeah, they could hold a wormhole from the Vong no problem.

Then again, anyone with the brains to use chemical and biological weapons could own the Vong, so it's a mute point.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-09 12:48am

Solauren wrote:Considering the UFP fleet around TNG times is comparable in size to the NR fleet that beat the Vong sensless, if those size numbers were kept with Star Wars military technology, combined with UFP 'swiss army subspace tech', yeah, they could hold a wormhole from the Vong no problem.

What are you talking about? The New Rebuplic fleet had thousands upon thousands of capital ships.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-09-09 01:51am

IIRC (I may not, as I don't own the books, those belong to Caius), the NR fleet that actually fought the Vong was 2000 - 3000 ships (not couting Starfighters)

And please not, I was talking about protecting a wormhole from the Vong, not wagging a traditional war.

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2005-09-09 10:55am

Solauren wrote:IIRC (I may not, as I don't own the books, those belong to Caius), the NR fleet that actually fought the Vong was 2000 - 3000 ships (not couting Starfighters)

And please not, I was talking about protecting a wormhole from the Vong, not wagging a traditional war.

Plus in most of the battles from the books only a few capital ships were used. So I assume there was just lots of small fights every where as the Vong carved a patch through a good chunk of the galaxy in a short period of time. And there was alot of infighting amongst the leadership, the Jedi and the traitors that was helping the Vong. So a few hundred or so ships might be a good rear guard fleet allowing main units to the front lines.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2005-09-09 05:54pm

I just took the 1500 as Federation peace keeping fleet to hold off any invasion by foremost Trek powers, (Dominion, Borg for exemple) and by EU standards 1500 ships would be considered to be a large fleet.
But as the SW galaxy militarises and becomes Galactic Empire, Federation might militarise with it double or triple the fleet numbers, or just build more powerful ships and decomission the elder outdated ships.

I doubt they can build something as powerful as Imperial Star Destroyers in the beginning but perhaps ships that are 2/3 as powerful.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-09-09 07:54pm

The Federation in this scenario is extremely defensible. It would probably be one of the few places that makes it through the post-Endor chaos unscathed. The Federation with SW technology would, of course, be completely unthreatened by the indigenous Milky Way powers.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2005-09-09 10:32pm

What would be interesting would be if the Federation, as part of the Old Republic, remained loyal as Palpatine took over. Then we might see the Federation become something of an Imperial bastion...its isolation from the rest of the SW galaxy would make it an ideal place for covert military projects and what have you...somewhat like the Maw, on steroids. It could make an extremely useful place to build the Death Stars, for example.

If Palpatine decided to stage the Battle of Endor at Endor regardless, and the Empire was defeated, the Milky Way would likely remain somewhat of an Imperial stronghold.

In any event, can you imagine the horribly bureaucratic monsters that the Empire would produce, if recruiting from Federation worlds? Imagine Grand Moff Picard...now that's a scarry thought.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-09-09 10:36pm

RThurmont wrote: In any event, can you imagine the horribly bureaucratic monsters that the Empire would produce, if recruiting from Federation worlds? Imagine Grand Moff Picard...now that's a scarry thought.

ROFL.

I was thinking Grand Admiral Janeway... AFTER she failed Vader.