It takes 35,000BTU to make 77,000BTU's worth of ethanol

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His Divine Shadow
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It takes 35,000BTU to make 77,000BTU's worth of ethanol

Post by His Divine Shadow »

According to this ink I found in the sig of some guy in SB.
Well that sounds completely inversed to what I've been hearing here. I do not know enough to say either way so I hand it to you guys.

http://www.ethanol.org/PressRelease71905bhtm.htm
Claims that Ethanol has a Negative Energy Balance are Outrageous

Sioux Falls, SD (July 19, 2005) – The American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE) today set the record straight on the allegation that ethanol has a negative energy balance.

“That claim is just outrageous,” said Ron Lamberty, ACE Vice President / Market Development. “The bottom line is that it takes 35,000 BTUs of energy to turn a bushel of corn into a gallon of ethanol, and that gallon of ethanol contains at least 77,000 BTUs. What kind of math is being used to turn this number into a negative?”

Professors David Pimentel of Cornell University and Tad Patzek of the University of California, Berkeley are claiming that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the ethanol offers as a motor fuel.

“This new study by Pimentel and Patzek is just the latest regurgitation of Pimentel's research from 1979. It is an amazing routine of mathematical gymnastics to prove a political point, one that is no longer true,” Lamberty said. “Twenty years ago their information may have been correct, but today it couldn't be more wrong. Pimentel should be taking credit for having helped create today's truly efficient ethanol production process, not using old numbers to shoot it down.”

Brian Jennings, ACE Executive Vice President, added: “Any objective analysis of ethanol's energy balance equation done in the last 20 years will verify that ethanol contains much more energy than what is used to produce it. The re-release of Pimentel's antiquated study is a misleading effort by foreign oil apologists to derail important ethanol legislation working its way through Congress.”

Some insight into Patzek's bias against ethanol can be found on his own website: http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/patzek/index.htm . Patzek spent nearly a decade working for Shell Oil Company as a researcher, consultant, and expert witness. He is the founder and current director of the UC Oil Consortium, an organization funded mainly by the oil industry to the tune of $60,000-120,000 per year, per company.

“Tad Patzek is not a disinterested third party in this debate. It shouldn't be shocking that someone with such a background in the oil industry would come out opposed to ethanol, a viable alternative to oil,” Lamberty said.

Scientific studies have overwhelmingly found ethanol's energy balance to be positive, many of which can be viewed online at www.ethanol.org/ethanolresearch.html . The U.S. Department of Agriculture's most recent numbers indicate that the corn-to-ethanol process provides a net energy gain of at least 67 percent.

In a continuing effort to refute the perpetuation of these myths regarding ethanol, Hosein Shapouri – USDA economist and leading authority on ethanol's energy balance – will give a special presentation on this topic at next month's ACE Ethanol Conference & Trade Show. His presentation will take place on August 18 at the Qwest Center in Omaha, Nebraska, beginning at 9:30 am .

For more information or to register for the conference, visit www.ethanol.org . Media wishing to attend should contact Kristin Brekke by e-mail at kbrekke@ethanol.org to secure credentials for the event.



Ethanol Fast Facts:

* Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel produced from renewable resources like corn.
* A blend of 10% ethanol, 90% gasoline (called E10) can be used in any make or model of vehicle.
* The U.S. has 87 ethanol plants, about half of which are owned by farmers and local investors.
* Ethanol offers superior vehicle performance – the Indy Racing League will begin using it next year.
* It takes only 35,000 BTUs of energy to produce ethanol that contains at least 77,000 BTUs of energy.

###

The American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE) is the grassroots voice of the U.S. ethanol industry. ACE is a national trade association for the ethanol industry with more than 700 members in 43 states, including farmers, ethanol producers, commodity organizations, businesses supplying goods and services to the ethanol industry, rural electric cooperatives, and individuals supportive of increased production and use of ethanol. For more information about the organization or about ethanol, visit ACE on the Web at www.ethanol.org or call (605) 334-3381.
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Quadlok
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Post by Quadlok »

Looks like a case of technology marching forward both in fertilizer production and corn-ethanol conversion. Good news, in any case.
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Post by Glocksman »

Quadlok wrote:Looks like a case of technology marching forward both in fertilizer production and corn-ethanol conversion. Good news, in any case.
Either that, or the ACE is just as biased as they claim Pimemtel is.
I'll take this with a grain of salt.
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His Divine Shadow
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Well I hope it's true, wouldn't it make the sugar-cane method even more effective as well?
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Glocksman
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Post by Glocksman »

Probably.
The reason I'm somewhat skeptical is that if it takes less energy than you put in to make ethanol, why isn't ethanol profitable without all of the federal tax breaks and subsidies?
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

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Shortie
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Post by Shortie »

Glocksman wrote:Probably.
The reason I'm somewhat skeptical is that if it takes less energy than you put in to make ethanol, why isn't ethanol profitable without all of the federal tax breaks and subsidies?
Remember that energy input isn't the only cost, and that you get a lot more energy from burning oil than you use to extract and refine it.
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AMX
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Re: It takes 35,000BTU to make 77,000BTU's worth of ethanol

Post by AMX »

“The bottom line is that it takes 35,000 BTUs of energy to turn a bushel of corn into a gallon of ethanol, and that gallon of ethanol contains at least 77,000 BTUs.
Note bolded part.
How much BTU did it cost to grow that bushel?
You know, thanks to modern agriculture, potatoes, for example, are about 62% fossil fuel.
No idea how it is with corn, but it's perfectly possible that both sides are "right" - if you start with corn, you get a seemingly positive balance. If you start with the seed, you don't.
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Lancer
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Re: It takes 35,000BTU to make 77,000BTU's worth of ethanol

Post by Lancer »

AMX wrote:
“The bottom line is that it takes 35,000 BTUs of energy to turn a bushel of corn into a gallon of ethanol, and that gallon of ethanol contains at least 77,000 BTUs.
Note bolded part.
How much BTU did it cost to grow that bushel?
You know, thanks to modern agriculture, potatoes, for example, are about 62% fossil fuel.
No idea how it is with corn, but it's perfectly possible that both sides are "right" - if you start with corn, you get a seemingly positive balance. If you start with the seed, you don't.
a quick glance through one of their cited studies points out that the negative-energy result studies done by Pimentel is based on use of agricultural equipment from the 70's, and he doesn't document what methods he used to arrive at his cost-estimates, while everybody else doesn't bother to quantify the energy used to grow the corn.
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Tzeentch
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Post by Tzeentch »

I don't want to get into a big debate on the subject, but I did a lot of research on the state of ethanol today for my job this summer, and here's the gist of what I found:

Ethanol is pretty close to being profitable, but it's not there yet. In Brazil, where they have nothing better to do with half the country than grow ethanol crops, it's a big money-maker. In the USA, we don't have the spare acreage or the right climate to make serious money off ethanol (or to use heavy blends), though it may prove worthwhile to start blending all our fuel with small amounts of it. The real future of biofuel is in cellulosic ethanol, which is currently under-researched but has the potential to be much more efficient than current technologies.
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