The Best Starfleet Captains (Post TOS era)

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-11-28 05:03am

Best Starfleet Captain?

JANEWAY

::runs away::

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-28 06:31am

You had better run away, you moron. You must be one of those "dumbed down" Trekkies that likes Voyager because of its simplistic plots and Jerry Ryan's chest. To even say Janeway is anything more than a complete fuck up, let alone that she is best captain, tells me that you are an idiot.

Get out of here.

Galaxy · Post by **Galaxy** » 2002-11-28 06:38am

Geez man, don't get psychotic.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2002-11-28 06:49am

bozman wrote:You had better run away, you moron. You must be one of those "dumbed down" Trekkies that likes Voyager because of its simplistic plots and Jerry Ryan's chest. To even say Janeway is anything more than a complete fuck up, let alone that she is best captain, tells me that you are an idiot.

Get out of here.

*Bangs Bozman on head*
KAN's a Warsie. Pick you words carefully.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-11-28 06:50am

bozman wrote:You had better run away, you moron. You must be one of those "dumbed down" Trekkies that likes Voyager because of its simplistic plots and Jerry Ryan's chest. To even say Janeway is anything more than a complete fuck up, let alone that she is best captain, tells me that you are an idiot.

Get out of here.

You do recognize sarcasm when you see it, don't you? Calm down, please.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-28 10:09am

Galaxy wrote:Well i'm glad i don't serve the USN.

Discipline is everything. You follow your orders unless they are flat out illegal. Your commanding officer DOES know WTF he is doing. There is none of that second guessing crap. Movies like Crimson Tide while looking all nice and morale are actually really bad examples. The captain of that movie would have been within his legal rights to shoot his XO for pulling that stunt with something that important.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-11-28 10:27am

Alyeska wrote:
Galaxy wrote:I didn't like Jelico. He was a hardass, and i hate workin for hardasses.
No, he was not a hard ass. He acted by the standard book that the USN uses for its ship captains. He made up his mind and made an order. Riker questioned that in front of the crew and thus earned his punishment. You NEVER question your commanding officers order infront of other crew. It is extremely disruptive to the chain of command and crew morale.

Jelico was probably one of the few SF captains that still used the book. Most other SF captains would hold conferences before they would made any decision.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-28 10:37am

What happened to Jellico anyway (I haven't seen the episode unfortunately)

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-28 10:39am

Vympel wrote:What happened to Jellico anyway (I haven't seen the episode unfortunately)

He was given temporary command of the Enterprise while Picard went on a special operations mission. During this time he was given orders to negotiate with the Cardassians. To make his barganaing position stronger he had bombs planted on Cardassian ships then threatened to blow them up if they didn't give him what he wanted. Picard was eventually returned to the Federation by the Cardassians (he got captured) and shortly there after took charge of the Enterprise.

IIRC Jelico had the E-D for several weeks or possibly months.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-28 10:47am

Alyeska wrote:
He was given temporary command of the Enterprise while Picard went on a special operations mission. During this time he was given orders to negotiate with the Cardassians. To make his barganaing position stronger he had bombs planted on Cardassian ships then threatened to blow them up if they didn't give him what he wanted. Picard was eventually returned to the Federation by the Cardassians (he got captured) and shortly there after took charge of the Enterprise.

IIRC Jelico had the E-D for several weeks or possibly months.

Ah good, at least Jellico wasn't reprimanded/embarassed or otherwise because of his imposition of some discipline. I just read the episode synopsis on startrek.com

Why didn't Section 31 perform the job? What a Starfleet Captain, a doctor, and a tactical officer?

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-11-28 12:02pm

Technically because Section 31 wasnt created till DS9 .Still it doesnt make sense to send a captain to do a black op.Dr.Crusher maybe since she knew what to look for but a what 60 year old chair warmer??? Specially a Federation chair Warmer no way in hell ((Or HFIL )).This was to show tht baldy could be as bad assed as Kirk

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-11-28 12:12pm

Has Porthos taken control of the ship on Bootyprise yet?

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-11-28 01:43pm

Vertigo1 wrote:We first saw the Maquis IIRC in DS9's "The Maquis". There was a TNG episode that aired at the same time which also featured the Maquis. Its the same episode where Ensign Ro defected to the Maquis.

Did we not seem them before that in TNG, when Lt. Ro the Bjoran became the 1st Starfleet officer to defect. and in an episode before that when the colanies were 1st consceded to the cardies?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-28 02:39pm

Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
He was given temporary command of the Enterprise while Picard went on a special operations mission. During this time he was given orders to negotiate with the Cardassians. To make his barganaing position stronger he had bombs planted on Cardassian ships then threatened to blow them up if they didn't give him what he wanted. Picard was eventually returned to the Federation by the Cardassians (he got captured) and shortly there after took charge of the Enterprise.

IIRC Jelico had the E-D for several weeks or possibly months.
Ah good, at least Jellico wasn't reprimanded/embarassed or otherwise because of his imposition of some discipline. I just read the episode synopsis on startrek.com

Why didn't Section 31 perform the job? What a Starfleet Captain, a doctor, and a tactical officer?

The reason why they didn't do it was because Picard was the foremost expert on the target of the opperation.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-11-28 05:47pm

Alyeska wrote:
Galaxy wrote:I didn't like Jelico. He was a hardass, and i hate workin for hardasses.
No, he was not a hard ass. He acted by the standard book that the USN uses for its ship captains. He made up his mind and made an order. Riker questioned that in front of the crew and thus earned his punishment. You NEVER question your commanding officers order infront of other crew. It is extremely disruptive to the chain of command and crew morale.

Couldn't have said it better.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-28 06:13pm

Galaxy wrote:I didn't like Jelico. He was a hardass, and i hate workin for hardasses.

If by hardass you mean actually acting like the Enterprise was a warship, not the Galaxy class Stationwagon Picard thinks it is.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-11-28 09:18pm

Actually, know that I think about it, maybe Jelico and Maxwell are the norm. Maybe Picard is just the wimp of the fleet. After all, wouldn't it make more sense to have Picard on the Enterprise, as in Dogbert's Manager book, you put the most inefficent person where they can do the least harm, management/cruise ship Enterprise.

Just a thought.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-11-28 09:19pm

Galaxy wrote:Well i'm glad i don't serve the USN.

Don't serve in any of the other branch, or military......hell even in High School JROTC, and college ROTC that is not tolerated. If you have a problem with your commanding officer you bring it up in private not in front of everybody.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-11-29 01:02am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Galaxy wrote:Well i'm glad i don't serve the USN.
Don't serve in any of the other branch, or military......hell even in High School JROTC, and college ROTC that is not tolerated. If you have a problem with your commanding officer you bring it up in private not in front of everybody.

One can question a superior officer's orders under the following conditions:

1. After they have carried out the order to standard and wish to recommend an alternative course of action for next time.
2. The order is clearly unlawful (in this case, a subordinate has a duty to question or disobey the order in question.

For example, if I order a lieutenant to prepare and deliver a briefing by a certain date, he must do so. He may come to me with suggestions and recommendations, but he may not say he will not carry out the order. Similarly, if I tell a soldier to charge an enemy position, he must do so, even if it costs him his life. However, if I order that same soldier to shoot a civilian, he does not have to obey that order.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2002-11-29 01:18am

Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
He was given temporary command of the Enterprise while Picard went on a special operations mission. During this time he was given orders to negotiate with the Cardassians. To make his barganaing position stronger he had bombs planted on Cardassian ships then threatened to blow them up if they didn't give him what he wanted. Picard was eventually returned to the Federation by the Cardassians (he got captured) and shortly there after took charge of the Enterprise.

IIRC Jelico had the E-D for several weeks or possibly months.
Ah good, at least Jellico wasn't reprimanded/embarassed or otherwise because of his imposition of some discipline. I just read the episode synopsis on startrek.com

Why didn't Section 31 perform the job? What a Starfleet Captain, a doctor, and a tactical officer?

I couldn't agree more about Jellico being the ultimate post-Kirk captain. I loved watching him turn the pansy-ass E-D crew on their heads.

Hell, if both Jellico and Kirk had been alive at the same time, they probably could have taken over the Klingon Empire before breakfast.

By the way, even though this is not canon as far as Paramount's rules go, the first Star Trek: New Frontier novel featured Jellico. He'd been promoted to Admiral! Yeah!

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-11-29 01:48am

That just shows you where common sense, discipline, and duty will take you. Why do you think Picard and Riker are still Commanders and Captains. Sheesh, for over 10 years, they haven't moved in rank at all.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2002-11-29 03:41am

Yeah, but they got that high in the first place...

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2002-11-29 03:44am

Captain Kruger wrote:
Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
He was given temporary command of the Enterprise while Picard went on a special operations mission. During this time he was given orders to negotiate with the Cardassians. To make his barganaing position stronger he had bombs planted on Cardassian ships then threatened to blow them up if they didn't give him what he wanted. Picard was eventually returned to the Federation by the Cardassians (he got captured) and shortly there after took charge of the Enterprise.

IIRC Jelico had the E-D for several weeks or possibly months.
Ah good, at least Jellico wasn't reprimanded/embarassed or otherwise because of his imposition of some discipline. I just read the episode synopsis on startrek.com

Why didn't Section 31 perform the job? What a Starfleet Captain, a doctor, and a tactical officer?
I couldn't agree more about Jellico being the ultimate post-Kirk captain. I loved watching him turn the pansy-ass E-D crew on their heads.

I don't recall Jellico turning the crew on their heads, at least not to the extent that they were all screaming mutiny or anything. Jellico annoyed Geordi cause he told him to do massive work on the ships systems, then took half his staff away and gave them to security. He still got it done though. Riker was the only one who had a problem with him. Though he had the rather unenviable position of being the XO to a new Captain, the person who has to make all his changes reality.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-11-29 03:47am

FaxModem1 wrote:That just shows you where common sense, discipline, and duty will take you. Why do you think Picard and Riker are still Commanders and Captains. Sheesh, for over 10 years, they haven't moved in rank at all.

Remember what Kirk told Picard in Generations, when they were still in the Nexus? It was something along the lines of "Don't ever leave that ship, don't let them promote you or transfer you, because while you sit in that chair, you can make a difference." But, he's getting old, feeling run down and stuff, so who knows, he could take a promotion one day. Riker on the other hand, had the chance to command his own ship before TNG even began, but he wanted to serve under Picards command for awhile. Then, he simply got into a cycle of turning down offers of promotions and his own ship.

Anyways, Janeway has to be the worst captain in scifi history, I mean, she made a big deal about the Prime Directives and ethics and what does she do? She turns around and basically spits and urinates on those samethings. So, my vote would have to go to Sisko, he was just cool, he would probably have made a pretty nice Admiral.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-29 09:44pm

Galaxy wrote:Well i'm glad i don't serve the USN.

Speaking as one who does, I'm glad. I had my full of soft whiners who refuse to bust their asses to get the job done in boot camp.

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The Best Starfleet Captains (Post TOS era)

Jellico

Re: Jellico