Atheists in movies

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-09-21 03:40pm

Michael Garabaldi in B-5 was an Agnostic.....
Sheridan also did not seem to be real religious, never really talked about religion.

My understanding is that JMS himself is an athiest

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-09-21 03:46pm

Just like on the new version of Battlestar Galactica. Gaius Baltar was just looking for God and found him with a little help.

Of course, Baltar is also portrayed as a selfish, arrogant lunatic who's being manipulated by an evil force bent on the extermination of a (polytheistic) humanity.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-09-21 04:17pm

drachefly wrote:In the book, she had that thing with the aliens telling her an interesting feature about Pi. On the other hand, they used this to suggest that there is a higher power. Graaah.

But it doesn't imply that it's a "god" per say, IIRC. Just an immensly powerful race of beings that built our universe.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2005-09-21 05:32pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote:But it doesn't imply that it's a "god" per say, IIRC. Just an immensly powerful race of beings that built our universe.

How is that different from god(s)?

bilateralrope · Post by **bilateralrope** » 2005-09-21 06:17pm

Kitsune wrote:Michael Garabaldi in B-5 was an Agnostic.....
Sheridan also did not seem to be real religious, never really talked about religion.

And it was only mentioned a few times during the whole series (and the only one for Sheridan I can recall is when he was playing chess against a monk), and it never was very important to the story.

My point is that is seems very hard to make an atheist character that reguarly shows himself to be an atheist without making a jerk out of that character. The best you can do is have a 1 off event to show it.

Much like how the only time me being an atheist has come up with friends was when they asked me to come along to church one time, and I turned them down. It has never come up since, and I wouldn't be suprised if they forgot.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-09-21 06:33pm

drachefly wrote:In the book, she had that thing with the aliens telling her an interesting feature about Pi. On the other hand, they used this to suggest that there is a higher power. Graaah.

Although that could just suggest that the aliens, despite being very advanced, have the same idiosycratic and flawed natures as mankind does.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-21 07:23pm

And it was only mentioned a few times during the whole series (and the only one for Sheridan I can recall is when he was playing chess against a monk), and it never was very important to the story.

Yes, Sheridan was a Buddhist, wasn't he? I seem to recall most of the religious talk came from that episode where each species represented on the station was supposed to put on a religious observance for some cultural exchange.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-09-21 07:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:Keep in mind that the intent of the "War of the Worlds" priest incineration scene was not "what a dumb-ass", but "what horrible remorseless creatures these Martians are".

The Hollywood template for atheists is the EPA inspector "Mr. Peck" from Ghostbusters.

In the novel it's pretty clear the entire purpose of the character is to show how useless religion is when the shit hits the fan.

Centurian99 · Post by **Centurian99** » 2005-09-21 11:25pm

Howdy. First post...

Atheists in movies/television. Yep, the holy gods of Studio Executives tend to "discourage" openly atheistic characters that are portrayed positively. (Why, I'm not quite sure...the extra controversy would be great press, IMNSHO). Mainstream movies are pretty much a desert. Jodi Foster in Contact is one. Joan Allen in The Contender is another.

Then there's also McCauley Caulkin in Saved.

IIRC, there's been a few indie flicks I've seen in the last few years that have had positive, relatively realistic portrayals of atheists...but can't recall them at the moment.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-09-21 11:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:Keep in mind that the intent of the "War of the Worlds" priest incineration scene was not "what a dumb-ass", but "what horrible remorseless creatures these Martians are".

The Hollywood template for atheists is the EPA inspector "Mr. Peck" from Ghostbusters.

I read the scene in "War of the Worlds" as H.G. Wells basically saying that such human platitudes were worthless and weak when faced with the Martians superior firepower. The priest thought that he'd appeal to the Christian nature that they assumed the Martians would have and the Martians blew them away without understanding or caring, in the same way a man would exterminate ants. What is the religion or life of ants to the Martians? That was a major theme throughout "War of the Worlds" the H.G. Wells kept hitting home.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2005-09-21 11:58pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Keep in mind that the intent of the "War of the Worlds" priest incineration scene was not "what a dumb-ass", but "what horrible remorseless creatures these Martians are".

The Hollywood template for atheists is the EPA inspector "Mr. Peck" from Ghostbusters.
I read the scene in "War of the Worlds" as H.G. Wells basically saying that such human platitudes were worthless and weak when faced with the Martians superior firepower. The priest thought that he'd appeal to the Christian nature that they assumed the Martians would have and the Martians blew them away without understanding or caring, in the same way a man would exterminate ants. What is the religion or life of ants to the Martians? That was a major theme throughout "War of the Worlds" the H.G. Wells kept hitting home.

As much as the WOW tv series annoyed me after awhile, it did have one great line on that topic.

Blackwood: If we could work together, start a dialogue?'
Alien:You are a mere fungus compared to us, one does not make peace with fungus.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2005-09-22 11:18am

Kitsune wrote:Michael Garabaldi in B-5 was an Agnostic.....
Sheridan also did not seem to be real religious, never really talked about religion.

My understanding is that JMS himself is an athiest

As I recall, Sheridan was a self-described "eclectic," Sinclair was Roman Catholic, Ivanova was an atheist (Jewish ancestry). There were also, of course, many devout followers of alien religions, especially the Minbari one, which was basically pantheistic.

JMS is an atheist but has a realistic view of religion in the future, i.e. it's going to be around and we have to deal with it. I remember his being very disappointed in several people who wrote him praising his positive portrayal of Christianity in season 1, only to criticize his "positive depiction of homosexuality" in season 2.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2005-09-22 11:25am

The main female character in stigmata was an atheist.

But considering the content of the movie, i would imagine she believed in god by the end of the film.. or atleast in the supernatural.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-09-22 11:32am

Haruko wrote:
The Spartan wrote:Or learn that one must have "faith" in order to function as a human being...
Just like on the new version of Battlestar Galactica. Gaius Baltar was just looking for God and found him with a little help.

Except that Baltar is a scheming, traitorous little shit. Hardly the example of a 'good' conversion.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-09-22 12:18pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
Haruko wrote:
The Spartan wrote:Or learn that one must have "faith" in order to function as a human being...
Just like on the new version of Battlestar Galactica. Gaius Baltar was just looking for God and found him with a little help.
Except that Baltar is a scheming, traitorous little shit. Hardly the example of a 'good' conversion.

At least he didn't become a dirty pagan!

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-09-22 12:54pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:
Except that Baltar is a scheming, traitorous little shit. Hardly the example of a 'good' conversion.
At least he didn't become a dirty pagan!

Thing is, though, the pagans in BSG are the good guys. And come to think of it I got the impression that Adama was an atheist, judging from his line in Kobol's Last Gleaming about the gods being 'fairy tales', or some such.

Alliance SpecForceTrooper · Post by **Alliance SpecForceTrooper** » 2005-09-22 01:49pm

speaker-to-trolls wrote:Thing is, though, the pagans in BSG are the good guys.

My understanding of it is that they are polytheists, not pagans. Pagan literally meant 'rustic' and had to do with older nature worship religions. The Romans, who were polytheists, referred to the Gallic peoples as pagans IIRC.

The Colonists in Battlestar Galactica (old and new) believe in multiple gods, but are not nature worshippers.

As for Atheists portrayed in movies, I was going to point to Contact, but thats already been done. Didn't know about the book reference to Pi though, interesting.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2005-09-22 02:00pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:The Contact example is good, I'm kicking myself for forgetting that. Sagan seemed to be getting at the idea that, while Ellie was rationally minded and because of her past had shunned any religion or deity at least, she couldn't use her scientific knowledge to back what she had experienced. I suppose that underscores the frustration of believing in something without proof beyond reasonable doubt that it did actually happen or exist, so she sees what her religious friend was getting at about faith, although I find God hasn't sent many encoded RF signal for amazingly expensive machines lately.

Plus, I love the way that fundie is shown fucking over the world and nearly the project with the suicide bomb to protect Christianity and keep that nasty knowledge from shredding such peoples' views of reality.

Contact is a pretty poor example as in the end, it showed Ellie's worldview to be close-minded. Remember how she uses Occam's Razor to disprove God, then at the end the sceptics are attacking her with the same thing? It's a fucking validation towards how logical thinking makes one "close-minded" to the possibility of something greater then themselves.

Sure, Contact protrayed religious fundies in a bad light, but I'd hardly say that it dismisses religion either.

Haruko · Post by **Haruko** » 2005-09-22 03:06pm

speaker-to-trolls wrote:I got the impression that Adama was an atheist, judging from his line in Kobol's Last Gleaming about the gods being 'fairy tales', or some such.

Or he may simply be a learned polytheist who doesn't believe in literal interpretation, though I'd like to believe that nBSG's most awesome character is a positively portrayed atheist.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2005-09-22 03:13pm

Blackwood: If we could work together, start a dialogue?'
Alien:You are a mere fungus compared to us, one does not make peace with fungus.

Then what kind of mental case are you? You're TALKING with FUNGUS!

Idiot...

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-09-22 06:14pm

A cooler line is: "There are no pacts between men and lions." though it has a slightly different meaning.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-09-22 07:03pm

speaker-to-trolls wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:
Except that Baltar is a scheming, traitorous little shit. Hardly the example of a 'good' conversion.
At least he didn't become a dirty pagan!
Thing is, though, the pagans in BSG are the good guys.

That was the joke.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2005-09-22 11:25pm

http://www.savedmovie.com/

It's a movie about christian teenagers. And it has an athiest in it. I haven't watched it myself, anyone here seen it?

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2005-09-23 12:12am

I've seen Saved. It was very amusing.

Zadius · Post by **Zadius** » 2005-09-23 12:32am

Hawkwings wrote:http://www.savedmovie.com/

It's a movie about christian teenagers. And it has an athiest in it. I haven't watched it myself, anyone here seen it?

Yeah, it's a good movie. It does a nice job portraying fundies in a bad light.