Separatists After the Jedi Purge?

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-09-27 12:32am

Could there have ever been any way for the CIS to exist in any large amount in any force (at least as a regional power dominating several star systems or core worlds), existing past Palpatine's Jedi Purge?

I'm guessing the only way besides having Grievous or the CIS high council survive, which I've already discussed, would be to make the droid armies somehow controlled by generals underneath that main leadership, and so after the council is killed someone else restarts the war.

It would all have to be very secret, though, and needs some sort of fan-made character to have created this plan. Grievous probably wouldn't have done it (though I still believe he was suspicious of the Sith, as demonstrated in his comics), and Dooku would have just told Sidious about it.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-09-27 03:48am

The continuing buildup of the Imperial Fleet was justified by 'seperatist holdouts' so it's likely that some CIS remnants continued to exist for years afterwards.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-09-27 07:07am

My guesses (note I have nothing to support them, they're just guesses) as to what happened to the remnants of the CIS.

-The small areas of holdouts left probably were broken gradually in the years after RoTS, with most of the major strongholds being wiped out.

-After a certain period of time remaining CIS forces were possibly integrated into the Rebel Alliance in various ways.

-When the CIS Leadership was destroyed at Mustafar, the remaining leaders in the field carved out small fiefdoms with the forces they had. Sort of like what happened to parts of the Empire after Endor.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-09-27 07:12am

Into the Alliance? Surely you jest. Virtually all of the remainder of the Confederacy was absorbed directly into the Empire, by default and by force.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-09-27 07:28am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Into the Alliance? Surely you jest. Virtually all of the remainder of the Confederacy was absorbed directly into the Empire, by default and by force.

Even any remaining soldiers and equipment?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-27 03:37pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Into the Alliance? Surely you jest. Virtually all of the remainder of the Confederacy was absorbed directly into the Empire, by default and by force.
Even any remaining soldiers and equipment?

Probably. Most of the CIS military (droids) was taken down by the Council leader's beacon, and the only remaining being the relatively few organic militias and starship crews, as well as possibly some droid armies privately built by higher ups and unaffected by the shut off signal. The organics, mostly alien, would either be charged with war crimes, sent back to their homeworlds, or shunted to some low-level Imperial positions, and the defunct droid army and fleet would likely have been decommisioned and melted down for resources, put into reserve, or deployed in out of the way sectors on patrol missions (indicated by the fact that the Empire doesn't use any former CIS warships, and only battle droids of their own design.) I'm sure some war material found its way into Alliance hands eventually, but by in large, I would think that the Emperor would have been quick in having it all collected and shipped out of public notice.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-09-27 03:47pm

Noble Ire wrote:Probably. Most of the CIS military (droids) was taken down by the Council leader's beacon, and the only remaining being the relatively few organic militias and starship crews, as well as possibly some droid armies privately built by higher ups and unaffected by the shut off signal. The organics, mostly alien, would either be charged with war crimes, sent back to their homeworlds, or shunted to some low-level Imperial positions, and the defunct droid army and fleet would likely have been decommisioned and melted down for resources, put into reserve, or deployed in out of the way sectors on patrol missions (indicated by the fact that the Empire doesn't use any former CIS warships, and only battle droids of their own design.) I'm sure some war material found its way into Alliance hands eventually, but by in large, I would think that the Emperor would have been quick in having it all collected and shipped out of public notice.

Followed by a copy of my post.

Darth Fanboy wrote: My guesses (note I have nothing to support them, they're just guesses) as to what happened to the remnants of the CIS.

-The small areas of holdouts left probably were broken gradually in the years after RoTS, with most of the major strongholds being wiped out.

-After a certain period of time remaining CIS forces were possibly integrated into the Rebel Alliance in various ways.

-When the CIS Leadership was destroyed at Mustafar, the remaining leaders in the field carved out small fiefdoms with the forces they had. Sort of like what happened to parts of the Empire after Endor.

I don't see how what Noble Ire said and what I said conflict.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-27 03:55pm

I suppose they don't really contradict, although I don't think it's likely that the CIS contrabution to the Alliance was more than ammunition, supplies, and armament, perhaps a few starships. Considering the fact that the Empire knew exactly where to look for major fleet, droid, and supply caches (Palpatine's knowelge would certainly help, as he had access to all of the CIS' logistical and tactical strategies) and the remaining organic forces couldn't do much to resist, I doubt that the Alliance ever recieved any singificant military reinforcement from them, like an operational battle group or division of Droidekas or something.

Star Wars Fan · Post by **Star Wars Fan** » 2005-09-27 06:15pm

the Clone Wars probably cnotinued after the Separitist High Council's death, but the Confederacy probablky oculdn't really attack, just defend its areas. the first signs of Resistance to the Empire after the Clone Wars happened a few years later. the broken CIS might've used battledroids to help the early Rebels.

many of the worlds that supported the CIs might've helped the Rebels later, and many former Confederates who weren't executed, of willingly rejoined the Empire would've joined the Alliance. the reason more worlds didn't join th eRebels, though is the Confederacy used many of the same slogans, represened the same ideology too much, and they remembered the violence, etc.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-09-27 06:58pm

I fail to see how the Seppies can exist beyond RotS beyond bands of pirates using the CIS as a front. Vader deactivated their entire army and all their ships after dismembering all their leaders.

Star Wars Fan · Post by **Star Wars Fan** » 2005-09-27 07:04pm

Lord Pounder wrote:I fail to see how the Seppies can exist beyond RotS beyond bands of pirates using the CIS as a front. Vader deactivated their entire army and all their ships after dismembering all their leaders.

not all of them. some lower-ranking leader not part of the council could've re-activated them, and there are all of those Outer Rim worlds where remaining CIS warships could hide. many of them could hide in the Rim until they joined the Alliance.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-27 07:21pm

Star Wars Fan wrote:
Lord Pounder wrote:I fail to see how the Seppies can exist beyond RotS beyond bands of pirates using the CIS as a front. Vader deactivated their entire army and all their ships after dismembering all their leaders.
not all of them. some lower-ranking leader not part of the council could've re-activated them, and there are all of those Outer Rim worlds where remaining CIS warships could hide. many of them could hide in the Rim until they joined the Alliance.

Evidence that lower-tier CIS commanders could reactivate droids shut down by the cut-off switch? (which was specifically designed to ensure that the Empire wouldn't have to deal with much resistance after Palpatine decided to end it.)

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-09-27 07:26pm

Lord Pounder wrote:I fail to see how the Seppies can exist beyond RotS beyond bands of pirates using the CIS as a front.

As a military force under the banner of the CIS its probably impossible, but if former CIS figures carved out small fiefdoms (ultimately targets of the Empire unless side agreements were made) or if CIS forces, miniscule as they may be, joined what would become the Rebel Alliance.

Vader deactivated their entire army and all their ships after dismembering all their leaders.

It has been shown that the droids of the droid army could still be made useable. The Droideka in "Survivor's Quest" as an example, but I admit that it would take a lot of time and effort to refit enough to acuire and make anything useful. More time than the Rebellion had to get anything significant.

Addendum: At least one or two contestants in Jabba the Hutt's Demolition contests used old Trade Federation Equipment, including an AAT and a B1 Battle Droid on a Stap. However the B1 was controlled by a Jawa via a remote IIRC and the AAT by a Wookiee pilot. This suggests old TF Equipment may have been availiable to some degree.

Vaguely related Side Note: One of Jaina's wingmen in the NJO is a Neimoidian pilot.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-27 07:34pm

Vaguely related Side Note: One of Jaina's wingmen in the NJO is a Neimoidian pilot.

IIRC, she was far too young and inexperienced to have had anything to do with the Clone Wars. Still, it was a nice bit of continuity.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2005-09-27 09:42pm

Vader did not deactivate the droid armies. He sent a message to the ships of the Trade Federation informing them that Dooku, Grievous, and the Separatist Council were dead, and ordered them to shut down their droid armies and surrender. There was no "off" switch, it was simply a message ordering for the CIS's unconditional surrender. It's entirely possible that there were a few hundred Separatist holdouts spread throughout the galaxy that did not comply with Vader's ultimatum, and thus were steam-rollered by the Galactic Empire in the coming years.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-27 09:57pm

President Sharky wrote:Vader did not deactivate the droid armies. He sent a message to the ships of the Trade Federation informing them that Dooku, Grievous, and the Separatist Council were dead, and ordered them to shut down their droid armies and surrender. There was no "off" switch, it was simply a message ordering for the CIS's unconditional surrender. It's entirely possible that there were a few hundred Separatist holdouts spread throughout the galaxy that did not comply with Vader's ultimatum, and thus were steam-rollered by the Galactic Empire in the coming years.

The ROTS novelization makes it implictly clear that there was a shut down code sent out, transmitted "by every holo-repeater in the galaxy" and the droids simply stopped fighting, returned to their transports and bases, and shut down. I don't recall anything in the movie contradicting that.

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2005-09-28 05:09am

Well, assuming droids deactivated by the cut-off signal cannot be reactivated without refitting them, droids already deactivated and waiting in storages when the code was sent may not be affected by it, assuming it's a one-time signal that didn't repeat for weeks or months on end (or no CIS commander had the bright idea to jam the signal). Simply activate those droids that didn't experience the cut-off signal.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2005-09-28 06:40pm

Noble Ire wrote: The ROTS novelization makes it implictly clear that there was a shut down code sent out, transmitted "by every holo-repeater in the galaxy" and the droids simply stopped fighting, returned to their transports and bases, and shut down. I don't recall anything in the movie contradicting that.

How about the fact that Nute Gunray didn't shut down the droid armies? The ROTS novel explicitly states that it was he who sent out the "shutdown signal". This info was taken from an earlier version of the film, where Gunray shut down the armies.

This is what the final and canon screenplay says:

194 INT. MUSTAFAR-CONFERENCE ROOM-DAY

A Hologram of Sidious speaks with Anakin in the Mustafar control room.

DARTH SlDIOUS: Send a message to the ships of the Trade Federation. Tell them the Separatist leaders have been wiped out. Grievous and Dooku have been destroyed. All droid units must shut down immediately.

DARTH VADER: Very good, My Lord.

ANAKIN sees Padme's ship arriving on the screen and goes out to meet her.

This is also what happens in the movie. The novelization's detailing of the droid-army shutdown is therefore overwritten by the screenplay and the film itself. The Trade Federation control ships were given an order to surrender unconditionally. No "Master Switch", which I frankly find to be a stupid idea anyway. Whether or not all the surviving commanders complied is up in the air.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-28 09:28pm

I don't recall that wording being used in the film, and I am skepitcal at the situation was definate as you make it out to be. However, I don't have any evidence of to support my objection, so I will conceed the point.

No "Master Switch", which I frankly find to be a stupid idea anyway.

Why? Palpatine orchestrated the entire war, and wanted to make sure there were no major opposing forces left to be dealt with when he assumed complete control. Considering the fact that it is possible that certain commanders would not comply if the order was a regular order, and the fact that Palpatine most likely had override codes for every military and civil transponder in the Republic and CIS, a universeal shut off is both feazible and reasonable.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-09-28 10:35pm

I would like to think they became the Corporate Sector.

Let the Empire get their secrets, pay them off and resettle them safely out of the way and inquiring eyes...

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-09-30 12:44am

Uh, guys? I'm hypothesizing about what would happen if there was no shut-off switch, perhaps Grievous was suspicious enough of the Sith to remove that design earlier, or maybe there were more prominent organic generals who had their own shut-off switches.

Basically, I'm saying "what if Palpatine wasn't so omniscient about bring the downfall of the CIS?"

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-09-30 01:25pm

In that case the Republic would eventually be forced to sue for peace, what with the billion-to-one (or 6x that) odds against their so-called elite forces.

Without the main leaders the CIS would suffer, but surely there are others who could step up to take their places. Somebody is controlling the droids, if there weren't, would they continue to rampage out of control, following orders long since out of date?

Perhaps the Republic would be forced to take drastic measures, and eventually be exterminated by the vast tides of droids. The droids might keep fighting until they ran out of "fuel" or broke down, etc.

Then again they could probably surrender to the droid armies, but the war might continue for a long time. Was the long term goal of the CIS to simply seperate from the Republic? I assumed so, in which case they would pacify the Republic and then retreat to their home worlds, but the droid armies might stay to occupy territory if they had no way to get back.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-09-30 01:35pm

Seppies kept fighting afterwards

Insider 84 Holonet news, page 56:
"Not all branches of the Trade Federation are happy with the terms of the treaty. Speaking from the Mid Rim commercial hub of Enarc, Customs Vizier Marath Vooro called Findos' authority illegitimate. 'Where is [viceroy Nute] Gunray? Where is [settlement officer Rune] Haako? A third tier flunky has no right to negotiate on the Trade Federation's behalf.'

Vooro warned of armed resistance from his planet and other outposts like it. 'We have our battleships. We have our droids. If Palpatine wants our wealth, let him come and take it.'"