StarTrek has a hope...Sorta

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-09-26 09:49pm

I was thinking about the post about the Federation falling in .25 seconds and I considered something to my knowledge that has never been brought up before in the forum. If a wormhole lead to the Star Trek Galaxy from the Star Wars Galaxy then both sides as they crossed over wouldn't have any star charts or in general idea where things are located. This being said I have no idea how effective the Imperials are at creating maps of galaxies because they already had really good maps of their own galaxy.
The same can be said for Star Trek, if they ever crossed over however unlikely they would be totally lost and become lost assets for the Federation. With this in mind the Empire would eventually destroy the Federation through numbers and probes (I assume random hyperspacing through unknown territory is slightly dangerous). Depending on the location of the wormhole the Federation might have extra time to hide like UNSC in Halo by deleting locations from their planets because I assume that would be the only place to get data. The Imperial ships are shoot first ask questions later so any federation ship encountered would probably be annihilated and the data lost. Heck Ion cannons alone could probably destroy Federation ships due to stupid containment procedures.
Is this logical or I am just idiotic?
Thanks for reading my first post.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-09-26 09:53pm

Mapping out the galaxy is quite simple, take a picture, jump to a new location, take another picture, do a trig plug and chug, and bam you got a map. Some stars can be assumed to have greater chances of containing life so you prioritize your likelyhood of finding something at any given system, and you start searching based on that. Since hyperdrive enables faster searches, the Imps will almost certainly find the Feds first, and the war is on.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-09-26 09:54pm

The problem is literally from ESB alone we can count and from Ozzel can hear about literally thousands of probe droids.

Literally with the speed advantage and the fact the Empire can perform long range recon with no danger to itself...means they can take their sweet time searching a brand new galaxy, and there is practically nothing that does threaten them physically.

One of the common scenarios is the Empire find the Ferengi and just buy the needed information on the Alpha quadrant.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-09-26 09:55pm

And might I add that once you start getting within a few hundred light years of a major planet you start picking up transmissions.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-09-26 09:56pm

This has actually already been discussed... though I think that particular thread is now in the HOS.

The Imperials would only need to have some probe droids along and they would still steamroll the Federation. Even without the droids they would be able to chart out routes and sections of space fairly easily as, IIRC, they have a 40 LY scanning range and can move fast enough that they'd cover that distance in less than an hour.

The Feds on the otherhand, would be stranded. Warp drive is so insanely slow (compared to Hyperdrive) that they would take years to travel any "significant" distance.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-26 09:58pm

This being said I have no idea how effective the Imperials are at creating maps of galaxies because they already had really good maps of their own galaxy.

In his search for Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader dispatched thousands of probe droids, a handful of which are capable of effectively scanning most systems for habitation. An Imperial invasion fleet could theoretically dispatch millions of these probes and accumulate a rough map of galactic space in a relatively short period of time. However, SW probing technology may or may not be heavily limited in areas where local space is seriously effected by irregular stars, dense nebulea, etc. (this is pure extrapolation, based on the danger of navigating the core, maw cluster, and the Unknown regions, all of which are abnormally active regions of space, and have never been fully charted.) However, the Empire would likely be able to find most Fed worlds in a brief period of time.

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-09-26 10:02pm

Yes... Thats a good point, but what I was trying to say was that if they entered a new galaxy then shooting random probe droids or hypering around randomly could have negative consequences unless they aim themselves directly at stars and jump at them directly. As for Vader's search for Luke, all those probe droids were heading towards planets already in the Imperial data base. The probes were simply being used to see if the rebels were their or not. But I did have thoughts that the Ferengi would sell out. Though the Imperials are Xenophobic and would probably kill the Ferengi and then take the info.
If I sound stupid then please correct me.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-09-26 10:05pm

jareth1138 wrote:Yes... Thats a good point, but what I was trying to say was that if they entered a new galaxy then shooting random probe droids or hypering around randomly could have negative consequences unless they aim themselves directly at stars and jump at them directly. As for Vader's search for Luke, all those probe droids were heading towards planets already in the Imperial data base. The probes were simply being used to see if the rebels were their or not. But I did have thoughts that the Ferengi would sell out. Though the Imperials are Xenophobic and would probably kill the Ferengi and then take the info.
If I sound stupid then please correct me.

Xenophobic doesn't mean you don't exploit first

.

Also given the speed at which Hyperspace travel occurs, they just need to head towards nearby stars and and extend from there.

Literally travelling across a galaxy within the spans they do is a immense advantage. Something is why a Cole protocol would be useless. I can cover the amount of space to find you, knowing just cuts a little time off the top.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-26 10:08pm

Yes... Thats a good point, but what I was trying to say was that if they entered a new galaxy then shooting random probe droids or hypering around randomly could have negative consequences unless they aim themselves directly at stars and jump at them directly.

I doubt any Imperial captain would be stupid enough to make a blind hyperjump for no reason at all, but the probe droids, especially a mass saturation of them, would still be effective. Who cares if you lose a few thousand by reversion into a star, there are billions more in waiting.

Though the Imperials are Xenophobic and would probably kill the Ferengi and then take the info.

It's a rare few high ranking Imperials who will kill aliens indescrimantely. Generally, they're policy was one of oppression and exploitation.

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-09-26 10:10pm

Thanks for the help. I really appreciated it. This was just an interesting thought that I came up with when I thought about this whole argument.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-09-26 10:12pm

Literally travelling across a galaxy within the spans they do is a immense advantage. Something is why a Cole protocol would be useless. I can cover the amount of space to find you, knowing just cuts a little time off the top.

Actually, seeting up at least a limited galactic survey would be a necessity. Even if Hyperdrives can travers interstellar distances in a few minutes, you are still limited to your ship's own sensor range. Making jump steps like that to chart even a single sector would be very time consuming. Still, capturing or buying Fed starcharts would expediate matters.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-09-26 10:22pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Literally travelling across a galaxy within the spans they do is a immense advantage. Something is why a Cole protocol would be useless. I can cover the amount of space to find you, knowing just cuts a little time off the top.
Actually, seeting up at least a limited galactic survey would be a necessity. Even if Hyperdrives can travers interstellar distances in a few minutes, you are still limited to your ship's own sensor range. Making jump steps like that to chart even a single sector would be very time consuming. Still, capturing or buying Fed starcharts would expediate matters.

Literally with the speed advantage and the fact the Empire can perform long range recon with no danger to itself...means they can take their sweet time searching a brand new galaxy, and there is practically nothing that does threaten them physically.

One of the common scenarios is the Empire find the Ferengi and just buy the needed information on the Alpha quadrant.

I didn't really feel to repeat my first post in the topic.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-09-26 10:25pm

Another thing to consider is, the Empire had a Star Destroyer variant called the 'Visage' class, which had less weapons but incredible mapping sensors.

They were meant to Chart the Unknown Regions for Palpatine (and Thrawn) to go nuts on.

Also, during charting, all you need to do is locate 1 alien ship, hyperjump in, disable it, and drag it aboard.

The Interagator droids can do the rest

bilateralrope · Post by **bilateralrope** » 2005-09-26 11:32pm

Solauren wrote:Also, during charting, all you need to do is locate 1 alien ship, hyperjump in, disable it, and drag it aboard.

The Interagator droids can do the rest

Are there SW weapons weak enough to disable a trek ship ?

Anyway, as best all this could do is slow down the invasion until the empire aquires sufficent maps, which can probably be obtained from the first planet they capture

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-09-27 12:33am

Solauren wrote:Another thing to consider is, the Empire had a Star Destroyer variant called the 'Visage' class, which had less weapons but incredible mapping sensors.

They were meant to Chart the Unknown Regions for Palpatine (and Thrawn) to go nuts on.

Source? I recall a ship named the Visage, but nothing indicating that it was a new class or anything special.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-09-27 04:15am

bilateralrope wrote:Are there SW weapons weak enough to disable a trek ship ?

From what we've seen, you can really dial down the power if you need to. See the Trade Federation Battleships picking off individual astromechs.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-10-01 07:31pm

And now we've got buzz droids.

The trouble is, would they be able to disable a Trek ship without the warp core blowing them to kingdom come when damaged anyway?

Considering even the self destruct can be knocked offline though, they might stand a chance!

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2005-10-01 07:48pm

Wouldn't a disabled Trek ship fall apart due to the lack of the structural integrity field when the power goes out?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-10-01 10:09pm

Doubtful, at least in the short term. IIRC the E-D "powered down" completely a few times and it didn't fall apart, and it's usually considered the most "fragile" of the Trek ships we see onscreen!

Voyager did as well, though it was supposed to be sturdier (specifically built for planetary landings).

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-01 10:28pm

When the Enterprise-D powers down is the ship at a total stop? If it was then when it powers down I suspect that it cannot perform any manuvers. If the Imperials blasted with ion cannons at a federation starship going at lets say attack speed then isn't possible that the ship would tear itself apart? When a federation ships power down I suspect that they have a procedure for the warp core and sudden power failure would be cataclyismic to overall health.
But thanks for posting.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-10-02 05:15am

jareth1138 wrote:When the Enterprise-D powers down is the ship at a total stop? If it was then when it powers down I suspect that it cannot perform any manuvers.

Where do so many people get these strange ideas about Federation hull strength? Watch TNG "Booby Trap," they power down completely, sans maneuvering thrusters, and dodge asteroids--no SIF. After crashing and losing power the saucer in Generations continued to support its own mass on planet. I doubt the hulls would stand up to all out evasive maneuvers, but they don't fall apart randomly when the power fails!

If the Imperials blasted with ion cannons at a federation starship going at lets say attack speed then isn't possible that the ship would tear itself apart?

No. Even if the ship were made of tissue paper it would not fall apart--no matter what the velocity is, as long as it is constant there is no stress on the hull (in deep space).

When a federation ships power down I suspect that they have a procedure for the warp core and sudden power failure would be cataclyismic to overall health.

I'm going to have to say no, the core will be fine. The Enterprise E looses its core to precision weapons fire in Nemesis, no time for a graceful shutdown, but it doesn't explode. The Defiant takes a hit from an energy draining weapon and maintains core integrity despite a sudden massive power loss. If I wanted to dig I could probably find several more examples of ships experiencing sudden total power loss and surviving.

Step back and think about it for a sec, except for the Enterprise D, when has the warp core ever been a serious, recurring problem? How often does any other ship class' warp core ever risk breaching? In DS9 the battle scenes show many, many ships with massive hull sections missing, little or no power, that do not suffer a breach due to massive damage or powerloss. Believe you me, Federation ships are more stable than is commonly thought.

jareth1138 · Post by **jareth1138** » 2005-10-02 11:02am

Thank You! I Stand correct. I do see that maybe a under estimated the federation hull strength. I really appreciate being correct so that I now have the right information rather then a assumption.
Thanks for correcting my rather dubious errors and assumptions.
Later

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2005-10-03 10:51pm

Theres also the debris scene in Best of Both Worlds pt 2 that shows all those derelict Fed ships with massive damage that didn't just totally explode with a core-breach-esque explosion

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-10-03 11:02pm

skyman8081 wrote:Wouldn't a disabled Trek ship fall apart due to the lack of the structural integrity field when the power goes out?

Why would it? It's not like any Fed ship would be of such mass to produce any significant amount of gravity. As long as it's not using its thrusters there should be no problem.

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2005-10-03 11:19pm

Thank you for the information. I stand corrected. Even though I am actually sitting in a swivel chair.