Wow, I just witnessed how retarded SF security really is...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-30 07:41pm

So I was watching the episode where the Enterprise finds the humans who were cryogenically frozen today. This one also features the return of the Romulans. Now the one obnoxious guy takes it upon himself to go up to the bridge to find Picard so that he can complain. Anyway, when he gets to the bridge, a Romulan ship is also decloaking on the view screen. When Picard sees the one guy on the bridge, he yells, "Get him off my bridge!" Two security guys grab him by the arm. The guy yells, "I'm not going anywhere!" They start to grab him, notice the Romulan ship, and just stand there in awe during the entire encounter. The never took him off the bridge until AFTER the incident was finished, and that was because Riker told them AGAIN. What kind of retarded security would defy an order because they're so impressed with the Romulan ship?

By the way, the guy made a comment during the encounter that could probably be heard by the Romulans.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-09-30 08:22pm

If I remember correctly, this is "The Neutral Zone". And the guy starts talking about the Romulans, and Picard holds his hand up and talks back to him after he hears something interesting from the man "he's bluffing" along those lines. So I don't think the security was defying an order.

Anyway if I'm wrong, shame on the security.

Brian

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-30 08:47pm

brianeyci wrote:If I remember correctly, this is "The Neutral Zone". And the guy starts talking about the Romulans, and Picard holds his hand up and talks back to him after he hears something interesting from the man "he's bluffing" along those lines. So I don't think the security was defying an order.

Anyway if I'm wrong, shame on the security.

Brian

No, they blatantly defied the order. He didn't say they were bluffing until well into conversation. Picard told security to remove that guy about 4 minutes before that took place.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-10-01 04:02am

You have to read "Debtors planet". Mr.Offenhouse - the guy we're talking about - has a very impressive comeback in that novel.

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2005-10-01 06:46pm

I'm just as shocked that the enterprise computer aloud a non-starfleet person to use the turbo lift to get to the bridge.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-10-01 06:59pm

spongyblue wrote:I'm just as shocked that the enterprise computer aloud a non-starfleet person to use the turbo lift to get to the bridge.

and earlier he also calls the captain unauthorized on the com system. A boy is able to walk into the shuttle bay and fly off with a shuttlecraft. The list goes on and on.

Kirk pulling his stunts in Star Trek 3 makes a bit of sense because you would figure he would have certain command rights to let him pull it off before someone realizes what is going on, but this guy?

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2005-10-01 08:29pm

What I have to wonder is what the heck Wesley was doing with antimatter of all things on "The Battle," for a science experiment...

ST3: Did Kirk simply abuse his admiral's privileges and security clearances? (In the sense of rendering it plausible, i.e. "I hereby commandeer the USS Enterprise as my flagship because I SAY SO!")

Not that I'm not perfectly willing to abuse the insecurity of Enterprise-D for roleplaying...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-10-01 09:22pm

well the point is this is different. Then it is a high ranking officer who has a knoledge of the command codes of the ship the other is a man who should not have access to anything.

Scotty set up most of the stealing of the Enterprise, and Kirk was the acting commander of the ship after all. He used his rank to allow him to go an see McCoy in the brig and ect. This was ranked officers using their clearences to get over to the Enterprise and its unsure what they used to open the door

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-10-01 09:48pm

Edward Yee wrote:ST3: Did Kirk simply abuse his admiral's privileges and security clearances? (In the sense of rendering it plausible, i.e. "I hereby commandeer the USS Enterprise as my flagship because I SAY SO!")

Not that I'm not perfectly willing to abuse the insecurity of Enterprise-D for roleplaying...

Basically. As noted, Kirk used his rank to gain access to McCoy and spring him. But, to get aboard the Enterprise he needed Uhura to be assigned to a Spacedock transporter. He also needed Scotty to rig up Enterprise and hack the space-dock doors open.

As soon as Enterprise started moving Starfleet realized something was wrong.

My question is, what if Starfleet tried sending another ship after Enterprise instead of the Excelsior? Or could Enterprise have outrun anything currently in dock (ie: No Constitution-Class ships were in dock to possibly give chase)?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-10-01 10:23pm

Skylon wrote:
Edward Yee wrote:ST3: Did Kirk simply abuse his admiral's privileges and security clearances? (In the sense of rendering it plausible, i.e. "I hereby commandeer the USS Enterprise as my flagship because I SAY SO!")

Not that I'm not perfectly willing to abuse the insecurity of Enterprise-D for roleplaying...
Basically. As noted, Kirk used his rank to gain access to McCoy and spring him. But, to get aboard the Enterprise he needed Uhura to be assigned to a Spacedock transporter. He also needed Scotty to rig up Enterprise and hack the space-dock doors open.

As soon as Enterprise started moving Starfleet realized something was wrong.

My question is, what if Starfleet tried sending another ship after Enterprise instead of the Excelsior? Or could Enterprise have outrun anything currently in dock (ie: No Constitution-Class ships were in dock to possibly give chase)?

I guess they figured sending a ship that they figured Kirk Can't run from

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-10-01 10:49pm

spongyblue wrote:I'm just as shocked that the enterprise computer aloud a non-starfleet person to use the turbo lift to get to the bridge.

It allowed a civilian youth to gain access to a shuttlecraft once.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2005-10-01 11:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:
spongyblue wrote:I'm just as shocked that the enterprise computer aloud a non-starfleet person to use the turbo lift to get to the bridge.
It allowed a civilian youth to gain access to a shuttlecraft once.

Wasn't that guy an ensign like Wesley? Or at least a cadet? Even so, it's still pretty bad, just not as bad.[/i]

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-10-01 11:40pm

Um, didn't Excelsior basically 'break down' right in front of Space dock's doors? That would make it damn hard to get another ship out.

It's also stated, in the novel, for whatever that's worth, that U'hura, from ground side, basically turned Starfleet's comm system into the most tangled web ever, making it impossible for Starfleet to send ships until they cleared up the channels. Hell, she even 'muffled' the call Excelsior put out requesting a tow.

Also, knowing Scotty, he probably set up something in the Spacedock computers to close the doors after they were out....

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-10-01 11:47pm

Solauren wrote:Um, didn't Excelsior basically 'break down' right in front of Space dock's doors? That would make it damn hard to get another ship out.

It looked like it was clear of Spacedock. Otherwise, I think it would have been pretty stupid to even attempt going to warp.

I suspect honestly, no Connie's were in the Sol system at the time (those that were may have been undergoing major refit). God knows there have been enough times the Enterprise was the "only ship" in the area.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-01 11:56pm

I suspect honestly, no Connie's were in the Sol system at the time (those that were may have been undergoing major refit). God knows there have been enough times the Enterprise was the "only ship" in the area.

Given the sheer volume of space encompassed by the Federation, it hardly makes sense that you'd have deep-space starships loitering around at the front door.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-10-02 12:56am

Skylon wrote:My question is, what if Starfleet tried sending another ship after Enterprise instead of the Excelsior? Or could Enterprise have outrun anything currently in dock (ie: No Constitution-Class ships were in dock to possibly give chase)?

Even if there were other Constiution-Class ships in the spacedock, they would not have Montgomery Scott as a chief engineer, and would therefore not be a match for the Enterprise, as Montgomery Scott is awesome.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-10-02 02:25am

It's worth noting that we get a view of the spacedock manual controls, and it was unmanned. So Kirk or somebody else probably fucked around with the duty roster, so nobody was there to manually shut down Scotty's hacking efforts.

Brian

Kenoshi · Post by **Kenoshi** » 2005-10-02 04:15am

Trogdor wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
spongyblue wrote:I'm just as shocked that the enterprise computer aloud a non-starfleet person to use the turbo lift to get to the bridge.
It allowed a civilian youth to gain access to a shuttlecraft once.
Wasn't that guy an ensign like Wesley? Or at least a cadet? Even so, it's still pretty bad, just not as bad.[/i]

Perhaps in that time the Federation had so few real threats to deal with that they got overconfident and lazy and slacked off on security. Or maybe with the heavy PC-atmosphere at the time they didn't want to restrict peoples' movements around the ship in fear of violating their sense of freedom.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2005-10-02 01:14pm

Wasn't that guy an ensign like Wesley? Or at least a cadet? Even so, it's still pretty bad, just not as bad.

No. Nobody else Wesley's age on the Enterprise had a commission. He was one of Wesley's classmates who had applied to Starfleet Academy and didn't make it. He was trying to land the shuttle on the planet the Enterprise was orbiting so he could run away. Even if he was Starfleet, it should not have been easy to grab a shuttle.

There are 3 simple things they could have done to prevent this foolishness from happening.

1. Program the door controls to refuse to open for any unauthorized personnel, and to alert security if there's an attempt to enter a restricted area. Same goes for the shuttles. If anyone tries to enter a restricted area, security picks them up and takes them into custody for questioning.

2. Have people in the shuttle bay all the time. There should be guards on the door challenging anyone who tries to enter, as well as technicians looking after the shuttles and pilots on duty to fly them. If anyone tries to go in, they should have ID and written orders to use the shuttles, which the guards will confirm with whoever signed the orders. Nobody should be able to traipse in unnoticed and fly out a shuttle.

3. The doors leading off the ship should be controlled by someone, who informs the bridge whenever they must be opened. Those controls should be able to be overridden from the bridge.[/quote]

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-10-02 01:37pm

Yes unauthorized should mean said person shouldn't be able to even open the door! There are several places that security should be in place to stop this stuttle flight

1. The Lift. It should not stop here if you do not have rights

2, The Entrance door to the shuttle bay

3. The shuttle itself.

4. The fueling system

5. the shuttle's power up system

6. the Shuttle bay's exterior doors.

How could none of these things have a secirity code required?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-02 02:18pm

4. The fueling system

I'd be willing to bet that they probably keep the shuttles fueled.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-10-02 02:22pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
4. The fueling system
I'd be willing to bet that they probably keep the shuttles fueled.

That brings up a whole new set of problems!

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-10-02 04:48pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I'd be willing to bet that they probably keep the shuttles fueled.

Why?

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-10-02 05:05pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:I'd be willing to bet that they probably keep the shuttles fueled.
Why?

So they could be launched on short notice.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-10-02 05:26pm

Well we've hear the Star Trek protagonists explain in-universe about the lack of security codes, so there is no need to speculate. In "The Neutral Zone", one of the awakened 20th Century humans presses the button and is able to contact Picard. He then asks why such a device is able to be used by him if it wasn't intended to be used by him, and Picard replies that it's because "everybody knows their role" or something along those lines.

Picard's explaination would make sense if the Enterprise-D was crewed by elite brainwashed military, but even then it doesn't make sense to trust the lowliest grunt with the ability to steal a shuttle, and it is completely inexcusable in the Enterprise-D's case because there are small children, mischevious teenagers and civilians walking around. Of course, Picard's answer would be that "everybody knows their role" or something like that, which is bullshit, sort of like how Star Trek denies human nature by saying that people would be willing to work hard in a society without currency.

Brian