Point Defense Systems 7.0 out

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-10-04 08:50pm

SylasGaunt wrote:Okay the FAC-M is a new one on me, care to decode that one?

Fast Attack Craft, Missile. He's mentioned things like swarms of datalinked FAC-Ms taking down CVNs (in real-life), which I think is frankly absurd. This doesn't apply to PDS.

And dammit is it just me or did they yank the DotW corvette with the CAM packs? I'm jonesing for an M^3.

Screw the DotW, the new Vaygr CA rocks!

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-04 08:56pm

That's no carrier, it's a freakin' battlewagon.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-10-04 09:08pm

phongn wrote: Fast Attack Craft, Missile. He's mentioned things like swarms of datalinked FAC-Ms taking down CVNs (in real-life), which I think is frankly absurd. This doesn't apply to PDS.

Ah. *looks at the Witchfinder he splattered earlier* Yeah he does seem to at that.

Screw the DotW, the new Vaygr CA rocks!

Oh I like that to.. I just loved getting to launch a lovely little Macross Missile Massacre with those things.

Oh and I love the improvements to the Avenger.. look at that sucker dance! (not to mention the new LSF IIs).

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-10-04 09:20pm

I like the new PDS, but I'm having trouble putting all the different tactical options together. Any suggestions about where to look to bring myself up to speed with the strategic and tactical doctrines in PDS?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-10-04 10:16pm

Surlethe wrote:I like the new PDS, but I'm having trouble putting all the different tactical options together. Any suggestions about where to look to bring myself up to speed with the strategic and tactical doctrines in PDS?

Just play with it and use waypoints as much as possible + aggressive mode. Your ship AI is reasonably intelligent so it'll prioritize as needed. Try not to directly order attacks unless you need to as your point-defense systems will lose effectiveness.

Do scout ahead. Electronic warfare and sensor signatures are a key part of the game. For example, you might see an enemy battlewagon by its lonesome, so you send in an attack. But since you didn't look close there could be an attendant frigate squadron and strikecraft screening her.

Do use combined arms. Big, powerful ships can be swarmed if you aren't careful. In duel mode, I took down a Higgy AVE (granted, one without resources) with a pair of heavy (destroyer-class) frigates. In another mission my Higaraan monitor, complete with triple 1200mm main gun, was beat up by a measily pair of Vaygr DDs (lost about 33% health and most of her heavy guns before taking the enemy down).

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-10-04 10:29pm

Yes, combined arms is a big factor. A single bomber strike can make a huge difference in a capital ship duel by taking out weapon systems, engines, and fending off enemy strike craft.

And with the new AICs.. well, has anyone else seen what a full Avenger wing can do to a carrier? I ran a full wing through a raging battle, past the entire escort, and utterly raped the carrier behind them in a measily couple passes without losing more than one or two fighters.

I'll have to experiment some more but I'm pretty sure I saw the hig converted liner (forget its name, the vagyr equiv. is the Black Rose) bombarding an enemy shipyard from way beyond it's weapons range.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-10-04 10:50pm

Don't forget the Hiigaran Mothership's new torpedo barrage. So good and balanced, and so visually satisfying!

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-10-04 10:55pm

SylasGaunt wrote:Yes, combined arms is a big factor. A single bomber strike can make a huge difference in a capital ship duel by taking out weapon systems, engines, and fending off enemy strike craft.

THere's the minor issue that some subsystems no longer appear to be targettable, especially on the BVs!

And with the new AICs.. well, has anyone else seen what a full Avenger wing can do to a carrier? I ran a full wing through a raging battle, past the entire escort, and utterly raped the carrier behind them in a measily couple passes without losing more than one or two fighters.

For 8800RU you'd better do serious damage

Nephtys wrote:Don't forget the Hiigaran Mothership's new torpedo barrage. So good and balanced, and so visually satisfying!

Those crosshatch icons really do make a difference, I think.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-10-04 11:33pm

phongn wrote: For 8800RU you'd better do serious damage

Yep.. and they do it in spades to. The avengers just became my new Carrier hunters. Quick, deadly, and a lot easier to dock and repair than most big capships.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-05 02:30am

[battleship engines] -are- meant to be indestructible. No more boasting of "I disabled a battleship's engines YAY!"

Oh, barf. That seems pretty lazy to me. I could see making them exceedingly tough to kill, but outright indestructable?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-10-05 09:16am

phongn wrote:
Surlethe wrote:I like the new PDS, but I'm having trouble putting all the different tactical options together. Any suggestions about where to look to bring myself up to speed with the strategic and tactical doctrines in PDS?
Just play with it and use waypoints as much as possible + aggressive mode. Your ship AI is reasonably intelligent so it'll prioritize as needed. Try not to directly order attacks unless you need to as your point-defense systems will lose effectiveness.

Do scout ahead. Electronic warfare and sensor signatures are a key part of the game. For example, you might see an enemy battlewagon by its lonesome, so you send in an attack. But since you didn't look close there could be an attendant frigate squadron and strikecraft screening her.

Do use combined arms. Big, powerful ships can be swarmed if you aren't careful. In duel mode, I took down a Higgy AVE (granted, one without resources) with a pair of heavy (destroyer-class) frigates. In another mission my Higaraan monitor, complete with triple 1200mm main gun, was beat up by a measily pair of Vaygr DDs (lost about 33% health and most of her heavy guns before taking the enemy down).

Thanks! I shall make extensive use of these tips.

THere's the minor issue that some subsystems no longer appear to be targettable, especially on the BVs!

I noticed none of the subsystems on one of the small destroyer classes were targetable. That made me rather unhappy -- I like to knock out weapons before I kill the ship outright.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-10-05 10:32am

Uraniun235 wrote:
[battleship engines] -are- meant to be indestructible. No more boasting of "I disabled a battleship's engines YAY!"
Oh, barf. That seems pretty lazy to me. I could see making them exceedingly tough to kill, but outright indestructable?

Exactly. This is especially annoying against the heavy Vaygr ships with their fixed forward guns; I typically had screening forces kill the engines so I could proceed to attack on a favorable vector.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-10-05 07:03pm

It's a shame they didn't leave subsystems in - but untargettable - so ships could lose capability without the player being able to target them. It makes DDs very useful, especially the Hig sniper DD.

The duels are a shitload of fun - much more than I expected. I'm not sure how to win the 1v1 duels, though. I usually win, but can't leave the engagement area before the 'death throes' finish me off. No margin, see

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-05 07:12pm

The one thing that has always bugged me is how the vagyr, by and large, don't have as many critical subsystems. You can pretty much disable any Hiigaran capital ship without much trouble, whereas all the Vagry heavy weapons are untouchable (especially true with their new battlewagon).
You will note that Vagry destroyers still only have like two targetable heavy weapons. Their torpedo complilment, cannons and yellow ion cannon are all indestructable; a major bonus.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2005-10-06 05:08am

We should set up a match at some point.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-10-06 05:13am

Soon my precious, once everyone here gets their new PC's *looks at Innocent*

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-10-06 10:53am

Spyder wrote:We should set up a match at some point.

I agree. It's been a long time since I was forcibly sodomized in a PC game.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-06 07:11pm

Ace Pace wrote:Soon my precious, once everyone here gets their new PC's *looks at Innocent*

*Shudders violently* But there's new technology coming out that will help defray my costs, or improve the machine I buy. Now is a bad time! A bad time... a bad time... a bad time......a bad time.... a bad time.........................

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-10-07 12:50am

*knocks Innocent over with heavy wood* G70>R520<NV40.

Do you need a complex branching diagram complete with pricepoint comparisons?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-07 06:45am

No, I want something that's so cheap it's silly, and so powerful it can destroy most third world nations. I'm a greedy little bastard.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-08 07:36pm

Surlethe wrote:
Spyder wrote:We should set up a match at some point.
I agree. It's been a long time since I was forcibly sodomized in a PC game.

Couldn't resist.

And I agree, we need to play a game sometime soon

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-08 11:29pm

Image leeching is

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-09 12:55am

I totally agree. Maybe I should do it again?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-10-09 02:55am

Huh. So each PDS version eliminates ships from the previous? I can't get any ship based on the 'classic' Destroyer anymore.

Also. That 8000 Resource support ship bites. It's got a ton of guns, but zero defenses.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-09 03:56am

InnocentBystander wrote:I totally agree. Maybe I should do it again?

No, seriously, dude, come on. There's free image hosts out there. If you use Firefox and Imageshack, you can even download an extension that lets you right click on an image at another website and directly transload it into Imageshack, and it'll automatically pop up with a page full of links pre-formatted for a variety of purposes (including BBcode formatting!) for you to choose from.

There is virtually no excuse for image leeching these days.