More Canon Submissions

[Lord Poe]

Hey all;

Currently, I have no time to write 400,000 word manifestos about SW canon policy, and Lucas' stance on it. But for those of you battling Rabid Stupid Assholes who like to twist quotes into pretzels then follow them with dozens of paragraphs "explaining" what that quote meant, Here's a few more relavent quotes that stand by themselves:

Clone Wars Q & A with Genndy Tartakovsky February 20, 2004

http://www.starwars.com/clonewars/about ... index.html

What about George Lucas' reaction?

It's been really great. I heard that he said that it is Star Wars, which is what we set out to do: to create really cool action cartoons that fit into the Star Wars story. He's been really happy about it, especially because his kids like it too, which is important."

Leland Chee on "parallel universes"

http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... &start=240

"Parallel universe" suggests that each universe can go in separate directions which really isn't the case with regard to the EU. The EU is bound by what is seen in the most current version of the films and by directives from George Lucas.

From K-Mac@sff.net Mon Jul 19 00:22:41 1999
From: "Michael P. Kube-McDowell" <K-Mac@sff.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:17:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Star Wars books

On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:53:57 +0200, frank@marbot.gu.se (e l w e
n) wrote:

>
>I don't think Lucas himself has given any input to any of the novels.
>Rather, LucasFilm has a set of guidelines which every 'EU' author has to
>follow. Stuff like not killing off any of the main characters, and things
>like that.

I don't know what the current procedure is at Del Rey, but George
Lucas personally reviewed and signed off on outlines for the Bantam
novels. This was the third stage in the approval process--Bantam had
to give its okay, then Lucasfilm Licensing's continuity staff, then
Lucas himself.

K-Mac

TUCWS: Was George Lucas involved at any stage of Labyrinth? Was there anything that you wanted to include but was shot down?

JL: George was involved to the extent that he provided answers to the many questions I had about Master Sifo-Dyas, General Grievous, Dooku’s allegiance to Sidious, the Prophecy of the Chosen One, the Battle of Coruscant, and more. The Sifo-Dyas background came straight from Lucas, as did Sidious’s words to Dooku before the duel aboard Grievous’s starship. I had already been asked to create a background for Grievous, but I asked George for his thoughts, and was told to think of Grievous as a joint product of the Banking Clan and the Geonosians. Regarding the Battle of Coruscant, in my early outline I had Palpatine being moved about as President Bush was in Air Force One on Nine-Eleven. George said, however, that I should rework this along the lines of what the Secret Service did with Cheney, which was to get him to a hardened bunker. There were many other instances when I asked for his input, simply because I didn’t want to second guess him, or base my plotpoints solely on my read of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. I wish I’d been allowed to do more with Padmé, and to bring Dooku and Anakin within striking range of one another, but to do so would have trampled on lines in the final script. I also had to be very cagey about maintaining the Palpatine/Sidious illusion.

http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=9255

Tasty Taste
Member Profile
Total Posts: 906
Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Jan 26, 2005 04:13 PM

are there anything still off limits to authors?

Yoda's species and homeworld and certain character's first names are still off limits. Episode III also makes mention of some things that the EU will not be able to go into at this point in time, if ever.

Why would anything be off-limits, if the EU were a seperate reality?


http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=9240

Tasty Taste
Member Profile
Total Posts: 906
Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Jan 25, 2005 11:10 AM

More of the EU is based on Lucas's view of the universe outside the films than you are probably aware of. We just don't discuss it around here a whole lot.

[RThurmont]

This also, in a sense, demonstrates the superiority of having a planned, regulated system of non-cinematic content, as opposed to the Star Trek approach, in which everything except the TV shows and the movies are regarded as apocryphal, and even they are contradicted when it suits the tastes of the latest writers and producers brought to the series.

I expect that as more major SF franchises emerge in the years to come, more of them will adhere to the SW model of a carefully controlled "meta-environment" than to the ST model, as historically, when you look at profitability per hour of film, SW has blown Star Trek out of the water. Star Trek has done something like $1.2 billion over the years, after however many thousands of hours of film and however many thousands of books and other content, versus Star Wars, which has pulled $3.6 billion on about 18 hours of film and a much more organized system of merchandising.

The thing about the EU and the ST apocryphal content is this: neither Star Wars or Star Trek lend themselves to product placement. Nor for that matter would any other SF series except one set in the present day or near future. Therefore, merchandising is critical to generate the kind of returns entertainment industry executives expect. In essence, through proper merchandising, you're converting the franchise into full branded entertainment, but rather than it being someone else's brand being promoted, its your own, and the result is a compelling relationship is established with the consumer.

The SW approach, where the vast majority of EU content is endorsed and fits neatly within what the films established, results in a far more compelling proposition to the consumers, who can get added thrill by reading about something and then finally getting to see it appear on film.

[Darth Servo]

Rabid stupid asshole predictions:

What about George Lucas' reaction?

It's been really great. I heard that he said that it is Star Wars, which is what we set out to do: to create really cool action cartoons that fit into the Star Wars story. He's been really happy about it, especially because his kids like it too, which is important."

"Well, this is something he just HEARD about. We don't know that Lucas actually said that."

"Parallel universe" suggests that each universe can go in separate directions which really isn't the case with regard to the EU. The EU is bound by what is seen in the most current version of the films and by directives from George Lucas.

"Exactly, so Lucas saying its a parallel universe means it doesn't count."

[General Soontir Fel]

The thing about the EU and the ST apocryphal content is this: neither Star Wars or Star Trek lend themselves to product placement. Nor for that matter would any other SF series except one set in the present day or near future.

You seem to know quite a bit about product placemet in entertainment. It happens a lot in movies and is starting to creep into video games, but what about books? Is it being done, and if so, how? I just have trouble putting my mind about a placement in a book without being blatant.

[RThurmont]

You seem to know quite a bit about product placemet in entertainment. It happens a lot in movies and is starting to creep into video games, but what about books? Is it being done, and if so, how? I just have trouble putting my mind about a placement in a book without being blatant.

As far as I'm aware, product placement hasn't started in books yet. It would be rather more obvious if a product was placed in a book then if it was done in a film. Even if a movie set in the present day lacks paid product placements, it's impossible to edit every single logo out of it-they're too ubiquitous. In a book, on the other hand, in order for a product placement to work the author would have to make an explicit reference to it, which would be rather obvious. Can you imagine:

George hopped into his new 2006 Buick Lucerne and sped to the Kaiser Permanente hospital. The doctors immediately treated his Beretta-inflicted shotgun wound and hooked him up on a Tyco IV system, and offered him Bayer Aspirin Extra Strength for pain relief. For days he sat in agony. Finally, Sophia found out what had happened and quickly rushed to the scene in her Pontiac Solstice, delivering to George a bouquet she had ordered from 1-800-Flowers.com.

"George, I was so worried about you."

"Oh, I'm quite alright my dear, this Bayer Aspirin they've been giving me works wonders."

Now...imagine an entire book like that and you can see the challenges of product placement in a novel.

However, the funny thing is, a scene almost exactly like what I just depicted could easily be inserted in a film. It's easy to pull stuff off like that in the background.

Now, don't get me wrong on this-frankly, I hate product placement. Branded entertainment is only becoming a fad because traditional TV commercials no longer work-people mute them, ignore them or zap them with their TiVo (<< subtle product placement right there, but no company would pay for such a minor squawk). As a result, branded entertainment has come into play, offering advertisers a way to promote their products in a form that people (it is hoped) will pay attention to.

Frankly, I have my doubts as to whether or not branded entertainment is viable. The Apprentice, Donald Trump's festival of narcissism, was much less popular in the third season, in which every episode was a glorified product placement, than in the first season, in which product placements were more discreet. In the long run, I see branded entertainment more or less destroying Hollywood and the current media industry, which may not be such a bad thing overall.

[Srynerson]

You seem to know quite a bit about product placemet in entertainment. It happens a lot in movies and is starting to creep into video games, but what about books? Is it being done, and if so, how? I just have trouble putting my mind about a placement in a book without being blatant.

As far as I'm aware, product placement hasn't started in books yet. It would be rather more obvious if a product was placed in a book then if it was done in a film. Even if a movie set in the present day lacks paid product placements, it's impossible to edit every single logo out of it-they're too ubiquitous. In a book, on the other hand, in order for a product placement to work the author would have to make an explicit reference to it, which would be rather obvious. Can you imagine:

Actually, it's already being done: +http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4391955.stm
The most relevant passage from the article:

Four years ago, esteemed author Fay Weldon became perhaps the first novelist to be paid for product placement in one of her books, The Bulgari Connection, in which the Italian jewellery maker was mentioned dozens of times.

Then, last year, British "chick lit" writer Carole Matthews went further, signing a deal with Ford to mention its cars prominently in several of her works. No prizes for guessing the thrust of her forthcoming novel, You Drive Me Crazy.

However, I do agree with you that SW's canon policy increases the marketability of EU materials relative to ST's canon policy. I quit reading ST novels in large part because I saw no point in getting emotionally invested in a story that might be completely contradicted in a different novel released later that year.

[General Soontir Fel]

However, I do agree with you that SW's canon policy increases the marketability of EU materials relative to ST's canon policy. I quit reading ST novels in large part because I saw no point in getting emotionally invested in a story that might be completely contradicted in a different novel released later that year.

Basically, every ST author has his or her own mini-EU, which (usually) does not contradict either canon or that author's other stuff. Many also reuse their characters, which other authors do not.

[RThurmont]

Amazing that people would even bother to read that crap Synerson.

Product placement in books, now that I think about it, could be done, through a slightly sadistic technique: only include the product placements towards the end of the book. That way, you've already got the reader hooked, and they're likely to be so into the plot that they won't think twice about the mention of a few brand names.

However, the two books referred to above, as far as I know, were not exactly breakthrough best sellers, so...

[Lord Poe]

Also, if anyone's wondering how Rabid Stupid Asshole's personal canon policy evolved and why, I've added a new section to the Darkstar Database here

You'll note that ASVS ripped his idiotic canon arguments to shreds, which still holds to this day, as Idiot Boy's stance hasn't changed.

[Darth Servo]

Also, if anyone's wondering how Rabid Stupid Asshole's personal canon policy evolved and why, I've added a new section to the Darkstar Database here

You'll note that ASVS ripped his idiotic canon arguments to shreds, which still holds to this day, as Idiot Boy's stance hasn't changed.

Where's the 'yawn' smiley? Come on Wayne, you can provide better color commentary than that.

[Lord Poe]

You'll note that ASVS ripped his idiotic canon arguments to shreds, which still holds to this day, as Idiot Boy's stance hasn't changed.

Where's the 'yawn' smiley? Come on Wayne, you can provide better color commentary than that.

Yawn smiley on the page, or here?

[Darth Servo]

Yawn smiley on the page, or here?

ANY place the Rabid Stupid Asshole shows his ugly mug.

[Dalton]

Damn, you picked a hell of an avatar for Chuck

Fucking funny stuff.

[Lord Poe]

Damn, you picked a hell of an avatar for Chuck

Fucking funny stuff.

I thought I'd find one he'd use himself! The good ol' days of ASVS were fun, weren't they?

[Kurgan]

Well, I've heard some Really Sane Arguments in my time, but this takes the cake!