Hyperdrive or Transporter

[Crossroads Inc.]

Discovering the principles behind hyperdrive is nice and all, but without any hypermatter on hand, good luck trying to get one to work.

Yup! I would LOVE To say Hyperdrive as well, But a Hyperdrive without Hypermatter is bloody useless. And as far as I know, No one really knows how Hyper Matter is made.

Y'know...one could point out the sheer stupidity to assume we would discover the means to a Hyperdrive, but no means to POWER it.

Yes, well, the OP was not really well described. And If I might point out, there are times when the world of science can work out the mathematical properties or laws of something long before they can test it, prove it, or build it. Example, we knew of the properties of a fission device and how it would work, long before we could actually construct one.

[Quadlok]

Did I even imply that? Whats cheaper, powering a transporter off the national grid or building and fueling a heavy lift rocket?

You said it would be a "tiny fraction of the price".

And how would it not be?

In any case, I'm suggesting it be used for equipment, not humans, as there are a plethora of safety and ethical issues at work here.

Did I even mention the ethical issues of transporting humans? No. If someone else did, put that point in the response to them, not me.

You did point out the dangers of using a transporter under adverse conditions in one of your posts, and I'm saying that we wouldn't neccessarily use it on humans. In any case, space launches are also quite risky and can be delayed or endangered by any number of natural or manmade circumstances.

Also, lets say we get hyperdrive, and start launching probes out into deep space. And lets just say that an alien intelligence finds one of these probes and decides it wants this new, more advanced form of ftl for itself. I'd rather not take the risk that they would decide to take it by force rather than by trade.

Its called "self destruct"

Its called "tracing a line back to the probes point of origin."

[Norade]

To clarify some points all relevent technologies related to the use of these devices would be discovered as well. So we can use the transporter with out it screwing up anymore than it does in Trek. This also means that we can power a hyperdrive and know how to plot jump coordinates, however this is a new discovery thus safe space lanes would be undeveloped.

[Quadlok]

To clarify some points all relevent technologies related to the use of these devices would be discovered as well. So we can use the transporter with out it screwing up anymore than it does in Trek. This also means that we can power a hyperdrive and know how to plot jump coordinates, however this is a new discovery thus safe space lanes would be undeveloped.

So we would also have the neccessary inertial dampening and stasis fields to insure that we would not be squished into a paste that would then rapidly decompose the first time we turned a hyperdrive on?

[CoyoteNature]

Transporter, associated technologies are to interesting, matter into energy energy into matter, it would revolutionize the power industry.

Plus in principle it would be possible to use the transporter as a kind of interstellar drive anyway.

And military applications as well, wouldn't need bombs, just set the transporter to change something into energy, leave it that way, instant nuke but more energy.

[Norade]

Yes, both technologies can be use safely... or at least the hyperdrive can. I mean how can something which destroys everything that enters it be safe.

[General Zod]

Transporter, associated technologies are to interesting, matter into energy energy into matter, it would revolutionize the power industry.

At least until you run out of resources on Earth, good luck finding more. . .oh, wait. Can't travel to other worlds to explore new resources. So much for that.

Plus in principle it would be possible to use the transporter as a kind of interstellar drive anyway.

The OP never said anything about getting the best of both. The transporter as portrayed by Trek has almost never been able to be used as any type of interstellar transportation,

And military applications as well, wouldn't need bombs, just set the transporter to change something into energy, leave it that way, instant nuke but more energy.

Except we're never shown Trekverse using the transporter in that fashion. . .it probably could be, but with hyperdrive, you could simply do alot more. To say nothing of near-instantaneous air-raids.

[Norade]

Also nothing is limiting hyperdrives being used in gravity wells. That isn't just something I made up either, the reason why they won't work in a gravity well is that once they hit gravity they are programed to stop, also the fact that gravity play hell with jump coordinates further muddles the matter. However the fact remains that we could safely and instantly explore our and neighboring solar systems with the hyperdrive.

The transporter would in my opinion be less useless than FTL transport which could open the stars to us.

[General Zod]

Also nothing is limiting hyperdrives being used in gravity wells. That isn't just something I made up either, the reason why they won't work in a gravity well is that once they hit gravity they are programed to stop, also the fact that gravity play hell with jump coordinates further muddles the matter. However the fact remains that we could safely and instantly explore our and neighboring solar systems with the hyperdrive.

The transporter would in my opinion be less useless than FTL transport which could open the stars to us.

Would someone translate this into proper English please? I'm having trouble comprehending what's being said here.

[Norade]

Sorry, for the confusion I was typing a little quicker than I should have.

Some people may vote transporter for fear that the cost of getting a ship into deep space where it can activate it's drive would be too expensive. If we were to discover how to make a mirco-jump or if we were to test our drives in our solar system we could use smaller engines put them in orbit and have them do the rest of the leg work from there.

Of course that being said we would still have to be in deep space for a jump out of system as we would want our hyperdrives to stop when they reach a gravity well so we aren't destroyed by the object creating it. Also gravity wells seem to cause interference with jump coordinates. (I'm fairly there's a quote about that in the ANH novel.)

[Noble Ire]

Also nothing is limiting hyperdrives being used in gravity wells. That isn't just something I made up either, the reason why they won't work in a gravity well is that once they hit gravity they are programed to stop, also the fact that gravity play hell with jump coordinates further muddles the matter. However the fact remains that we could safely and instantly explore our and neighboring solar systems with the hyperdrive.

The transporter would in my opinion be less useless than FTL transport which could open the stars to us.

Would someone translate this into proper English please? I'm having trouble comprehending what's being said here.

I believe he meant:

The fact that our planet generates a gravity well would mean that using a hyperdrive would be difficult, but if we were able to equip a ship with a hyperdrive system and get it beyond our gravity well, we could easily explore our neighboring solar systems. A transporter is less useful than FTL.

That's the gist of it, although I'm still a bit confused about his gravity well issue.

[General Zod]

Sorry, for the confusion I was typing a little quicker than I should have.

Some people may vote transporter for fear that the cost of getting a ship into deep space where it can activate it's drive would be too expensive. If we were to discover how to make a mirco-jump or if we were to test our drives in our solar system we could use smaller engines put them in orbit and have them do the rest of the leg work from there.

Of course that being said we would still have to be in deep space for a jump out of system as we would want our hyperdrives to stop when they reach a gravity well so we aren't destroyed by the object creating it. Also gravity wells seem to cause interference with jump coordinates. (I'm fairly there's a quote about that in the ANH novel.)

I would assume that getting each technology means we can use it freely without worrying about the limitations of our present technology. Otherwise you're trying to work around what the scenario is describing.

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

What I got was that the hyperdrive can be used in a gravity well. However it never is in wars for safety issues, but that we could ignore those issues. Then we could simply engage the 'drive while in our grav-well, and we have almost instantaneous travel to one of the other planets in our system.

[Norade]

Okay we still only have our present launch technology but a breakthrough has lead to the hyperdrive and a means to power it. The problem is you can't enter hyperspace in atmsphere. However we can get a ship to orbit fairly easily.

Now in Star Wars don't use enter hyperspace in a gravity well as their hyperdrives are programed so that the will not opperate in a gravity well. This is because the saftey system on a hyperdrive is designed to shut off a hyperdrive in a gravity well.

The second issue is that gravity can mess with hyperspace jump coordinates. I am unsure as to why exactly this is but I think their is a quote in the ANH novel that states this as fact.

However we could still use a hyperdrive in our solar system assuming we knew where the planets would be and the time it would take use to reach the end of our solar system. Once we knew this we could explore our solar system and make short jumps into gravity free space to avoid having to use our slower sublight engines to do the job.

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

My understanding was that the reason you don't use one in or near a gravitywell was that even in a tachyonic state you are still affected by gravity.

Han in ANH states "you'll bounce close to a sun etc" indicating that coming to near a gravitywell is bad. Has nothing to do with jump coordinates.

[CoyoteNature]

True the Trek verse never used it in that fashion, but if it is matter into energy energy into matter, it still should in principle be able to be used that way. It'd be a long time before you did run out of resources, assuming it is matter into energy energy into matter.



If you did run out of resources you'd still be able to use the rest of the Solar System's mass, which would be allowable using the transporter.

Plus it'd be great for mining.

Trek never portrayed it that way, but there's no reason you couldn't transport the maximum range, transport some more, leapfrogging gradually into interstellar space, never said it would be great.



Perhaps I'm confusing a true transporter vs. Trek transporter?

[Ghost Rider]

Yup! I would LOVE To say Hyperdrive as well, But a Hyperdrive without Hypermatter is bloody useless. And as far as I know, No one really knows how Hyper Matter is made.

Y'know...one could point out the sheer stupidity to assume we would discover the means to a Hyperdrive, but no means to POWER it.

Yes, well, the OP was not really well described. And If I might point out, there are times when the world of science can work out the mathematical properties or laws of something long before they can test it, prove it, or build it. Example, we knew of the properties of a fission device and how it would work, long before we could actually construct one.

You grasp what it means to POWER something correct?

Just because there are mathmatical formula by no means exonerates the abject stupidity to believe we would create an item with no means to use it.

This would be creating a fucking Car without the ability to actually turn the fucking thing ON.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Ow...
You really do earn your title of "Spirt of Vengance" don't you?

Eh, well, If I may point out.. The opening part of the thread DOES say "which would you rather 'discover'" It does not say, which would you rather have built, or have people build, etc. Perhaps I will be punished for picing nits, or maybe I'm breaking some rule about interpreting words or some such... But the way it is worded made me think that that scientist had mearly discovered the princaples behind something, rather then actually build one.

If the creator of the thread comes out and says, "No, I meant which would you have humanity able to manufacture and mass-produce" then I will immediately withdrawal all statements.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Further more, in reviewing the thread, you yourself seem to indicate that these things are just "Discovered" not known how to be built:

And for people asking for transporters...I suppose a clarification but when a person goes

humanity as a whole discover

I doubt he's talking about digging it up from the ground. Unless he wants to present a scenario wherein one side is completely useless and the other is just as useless.

Unless you want to tell us how exactly is the discovery of the transporter going to tell squat about it?

You do seem to go out of your way to state that humans don't actually know how to build these things, but just discover them...

[Ghost Rider]

Further more, in reviewing the thread, you yourself seem to indicate that these things are just "Discovered" not known how to be built:

And for people asking for transporters...I suppose a clarification but when a person goes

humanity as a whole discover

I doubt he's talking about digging it up from the ground. Unless he wants to present a scenario wherein one side is completely useless and the other is just as useless.

Unless you want to tell us how exactly is the discovery of the transporter going to tell squat about it?

You do seem to go out of your way to state that humans don't actually know how to build these things, but just discover them...

You understand how to strawman don't you, bitch?

The guy fucking CLARIFIES what he meant and that statement I presented before he did such was in reference to the uselessness of a topic asking if we FOUND a fucking transporter or hyperdrive.

Or do you want to strawman me some more you fucking dipshit?

[Crossroads Inc.]

You understand how to strawman don't you, bitch?

The guy fucking CLARIFIES what he meant and that statement I presented before he did such was in reference to the uselessness of a topic asking if we FOUND a fucking transporter or hyperdrive.

Or do you want to strawman me some more you fucking dipshit?

God, I will seriously never get used to how pissed off and angery people get here... You couldn't have responded any nicer? I mean.. it's not like i'm trying on PURPOSE to do these things, I'm no expert at debating, I just goes with what feels good and is fun... Maybe I'm too laid back, you know?

OK, so maybe we can both be right?

My point was simply that if someone discovered the properties of something, it would be useless without knowing/being able to build it.

Your point is that it is 'idiotic' to think that if someone could build something, that they wouldn't be able to have fuel for it. This I will concede, if humanity figured out how to actually Build a Hyperdrive, then they should understand it enough to know how to manufacture HyperMatter...

So, hopefully that makes things square between us.. But really, you don't HAVE to be so mean about it...

[drachefly]

1577 posts and you still haven't worked out how un-nice this place is?

[Crossroads Inc.]

1577 posts and you still haven't worked out how un-nice this place is?

OH, I've worked it out, I worked it out before I joined! I just don't see WHY it's so un-nice...

[Ubiquitous]

We really don't need Hyperdrives. What are we going to do, have vasts fleets of ships running around the galaxy doing ... what exactly? Transporters, conversely, would be a massive breakthrough. Instant travel, decrease pollution ... the only draw back is that it could be turned into a terrible weapon.

[Darth Servo]

And how would it not be?

Even with a real life transporter, you still need to add ~60MJ/kj to get the thing to achieve escape velocity no matter HOW you do it.

You did point out the dangers of using a transporter under adverse conditions in one of your posts,

Um, no, I pointed out conditions where the thing DOESN'T WORK and is therefore useless. Hyperdrive doesn't have those disadvantages.

In any case, space launches are also quite risky and can be delayed or endangered by any number of natural or manmade circumstances.

Hyperdrive doesn't seem to have those limitations.

Its called "tracing a line back to the probes point of origin."

Don't be ridiculous. Even today, we use the gravity of planets to alter the course of our deep space probes. With something like hyperdrive, we could easily change the direction of the probe after its study of the destination system. What are the chances of your hypothetical hostile alien race being in the first solar system the probe reaches?

Besides, your criticism was that the hostile aliens would reverse engineer the technology and use it to come here. Its kind of hard to study any of its technology when the thing is ashes.