For the Christian Deconverts

[Enforcer Talen]

Anyone ever apply no true scotsman fallacy to you? As in, you didnt have faith, because you deconverted.

I run into it now and again, and its on my top 5 list for things most likely to piss me off.

[Metatwaddle]

Yeah, I've had that happen. It doesn't piss me off, though. To me, "you never had faith in the first place" is a compliment, an affirmation of my skepticism and intellectual independence even in that somewhat embarassing period when I was a theist. If I never really had faith (which I'm not sure I did), then more power to me.

[Morilore]

Yes, someone has said that to me, and yes, he was right.
Person who said it was still an idiot.

[Sir Sirius]

I've done that myself. I never made any kind of a decision to belief in god nor did I have any faith in him, as a kid I never even thought about the whole issue, I just considered myself a christian because mom and dad said so. As soon as I started thinking about religion I became a sceptic, it just took a few years to admit to myself that I was an atheist (and a couple more to say it out loud).

[Lord Zentei]

No, it hasn't happened to me, at least not yet.

[Psycho Smiley]

I'm in Sir Sirius' boat. I was Christian because my parents were. I never bought the doctrines, and dumped the whole mess after I actually studied the matter for a while. And, like Sirius, it still took a fair bit of self de-programming to cope with matters. So I'm glad I was never a "true Christian".

[Rye]

Yeah, it's bullshit, though, if it were true, the term apostate should not exist, and nor should the New Testament prophecy about "the great apostasy":

2 thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

and: Matt 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

The "abomination of desolation" refers to when people just stop believing in God, so yeah, it's apostasy, and you need to believe first in order to later leave it.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Yes, and it makes me quite angry. How dare they tell me whether or not I truely believed something.

[Guardsman Bass]

I get that all the time from the people who are strongly christian, and know I de-converted. They say, "You just never have had faith; you never were a true believer in the first place."

[Metatwaddle]

I know I already posted in this thread, but someone did this to me today, and for some reason it did piss me off.

[Rogue 9]

Anyone ever apply no true scotsman fallacy to you? As in, you didnt have faith, because you deconverted.

I run into it now and again, and its on my top 5 list for things most likely to piss me off.

It's a pretty common thing among Calvinists and their theological descendants. It goes along with their concept of the Elect, which requires that those who are saved are predestined for it. Since you cannot change your destiny according to their theology, if you deconvert, you were obviously never saved in the first place.

[Metatwaddle]

Anyone ever apply no true scotsman fallacy to you? As in, you didnt have faith, because you deconverted.

I run into it now and again, and its on my top 5 list for things most likely to piss me off.

It's a pretty common thing among Calvinists and their theological descendants. It goes along with their concept of the Elect, which requires that those who are saved are predestined for it. Since you cannot change your destiny according to their theology, if you deconvert, you were obviously never saved in the first place.

It's really, really funny that you should say that, because beneath all the weaseling and backpedaling that the guy I argued with today was doing, he seemed to be a Calvinist. He compared getting saved with being let out of jail by God, who unlocked some cells but not all of them.