Physicians for Social Responsibility..who are these assholes

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Alliance SpecForceTrooper
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Physicians for Social Responsibility..who are these assholes

Post by Alliance SpecForceTrooper »

Ok,

in a debate on nuclear weapon usage in Robotech, someone posted a webpage that claims a 20Mt device will:
Ground Zero to Two Miles:
Within 1/1000th of a second, a fireball would form enveloping downtown and reaching out for two miles in every direction from ground zero, the point where the bomb went off. Temperatures would rise to 20 million degrees Fahrenheit, and everything--buildings, trees, cars, and people--would be vaporized.
Two Miles to Four Miles from Ground Zero:
Out to a distance of 4 miles, the blast would produce pressures of 25 pounds per square inch and winds in excess of 650 miles per hour. These titanic forces would rip buildings apart and level everything, including reinforced concrete and steel structures. Even deep underground bomb shelters would be crushed.
Four Miles to Ten Miles from Ground Zero:

As far as six miles from the center of the explosion, the heat would vaporize automobile sheet metal. Glass would melt. Out to a distance of ten miles in all directions, the heat would still be intense enough to melt sheet metal. At this distance, the blast wave would create pressures of 7 to 10 pounds per square inch and winds of 200 miles per hour. Reinforced concrete buildings would be heavily damaged and all other buildings--masonry and wood frame--would be leveled.
Sixteen Miles from Ground Zero:
At a distance of 16 miles from the center, the heat would ignite all easily flammable materials--houses, paper, cloth, leaves, gasoline, heating fuel--starting hundreds of thousands of fires. Fanned by blast winds still in excess of 100 miles per hour, these fires would merge into a giant firestorm more than 30 miles across and covering 800 square miles. Everything within this entire area would be consumed by flames. Temperatures would rise to 1400 degrees Fahrenheit. The death rate would approach 100%.

Firestorms of this type, though on a smaller scale, developed in Hamburg and Dresden and in parts of Tokyo after conventional bombing attacks during World War II. The information gained from these experiences has particular relevance to the question of fallout shelters. In these earlier firestorms only those who left their bomb shelters had any chance of surviving. Those who remained in underground shelters were killed, roasted as their bunkers were turned into ovens and suffocated as the fires consumed all of the oxygen in the air.
Beyond Sixteen Miles:
At 21 miles from ground zero, the blast would still produce pressures of two pounds per square inch, enough to shatter glass windows and turn each of them into hundreds of lethal missiles flying outward from the center at 100 miles per hour. At 29 miles away from the center the heat would be so intense that all exposed skin, not protected by clothing, would suffer third degree burns. To a distance of 32 miles second degree burns. Even as far as 40 miles from ground zero anyone who turned to gaze at the sudden flash of light would be blinded by burns on the retina at the back of their eyes.
Did I miss something, or are these 'facts' all bullshit? Does anyone know what kind of device would generate this kind of a blast?
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Post by Alyeska »

I've seen things like this before. Almost always posted in media articles talking about nuclear weapons. From my limited experience this seems legitimate.
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Post by weemadando »

That thread title makes no sense.
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Post by Zero »

I could imagine a 20 MT nuclear blast at optimal conditions doing that much damage. What is a typical yield for a nuclear blast, though? How big was the bomb used on hiroshima?
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Post by Ma Deuce »

Zero132132 wrote:What is a typical yield for a nuclear blast, though? How big was the bomb used on hiroshima?
"Little Boy" had a yield of 13 kilotons, and modern nuclear weapons rarely have yields greater than 1 megaton.

The warheads on the US Minuteman III ICBMs have a yield of 300 or 350kt of which the missile can carry three (but currently only carry one), while the warheads used by the Trident II SLBMs have yields of 100 or 450 kt, depending on model, and up to 8 per missile are typically carried.

The most powerful warhead currently deployed by the US is the B-83 nuclear aerial bomb, with a selctable yield that maxes out at 1.2MT. The most powerful nuclear warhead ever deployed by the US was the 9MT device that armed the Titan II ICBM. The most powerful nuclear weapon ever operationally deployed was a 25 Megaton device placed atop the Soviet R-36UTTh (SS-18 Mod. 3) ICBM. This warhead was not intended for use against cities however, but rather superhardened targets like Cheyenne Mountain.

It's more efficient to attack soft, spread-out targets like cities using a number of sub-megaton MIRVs than a single large warhead. Even hardended targets like ICBM silos typically don't require very large warheads thise days, due to the increased accuracy of modern delivery systems. This is the reason the average yield of nuclear warheads has actually decreased since the '60s.

BTW, for what it's worth, here are the results from Mike's Nuclear Explosion Effects Calculator for a 20MT device.

Thermal radiation radius (3rd degree burns): 39.8 kilometres
Air blast radius (widespread destruction): 19.4 kilometres
Air blast radius (near-total fatalities): 7.4 kilometres
Ionizing radiation radius (500 rem): 5.5 kilometres
Fireball duration: 17.3 seconds
Fireball radius (minimum): 1.4 kilometres
Fireball radius (airburst): 1.8 kilometres
Fireball radius (ground-contact airburst): 2.3 kilometres
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Re: Physicians for Social Responsibility..who are these assh

Post by Darth Wong »

Alliance SpecForceTrooper wrote:Did I miss something, or are these 'facts' all bullshit? Does anyone know what kind of device would generate this kind of a blast?
The fact that Sagan once exaggerated the effects of nuclear weapons doesn't mean that you have to go too far in the opposite direction and downplay them far below what we know to be the case. You might see some minor variation in the numbers, but they're certainly in the right ballpark based on other sources I've seen. Just how feeble do you think a 20 megaton warhead is, given that it's more than a thousand times as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb?
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Post by Gunhead »

I think people get a little number blind here. When debating about SW and such, yields like teraton and gigaton get thrown around a lot. So it's a good thing we are at times reminded what kind of energies we can create, and the destruction they can cause.

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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I see nothing wrong with those figures. Reading the effects the Tsar Bomber produced without prior knowledge would probably illicit funny looks and calls of bullshit too. It seems funny that people are now underestimating the strength of a nuke rather than the total opposite.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I see nothing wrong with those figures. Reading the effects the Tsar Bomber produced without prior knowledge would probably illicit funny looks and calls of bullshit too. It seems funny that people are now underestimating the strength of a nuke rather than the total opposite.
Either that or certain types of people just assume that anything coming from "antiwar" or "left-wing" or "liberal" sources must be false without bothering to lift a finger to research it.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

At least it isn't along the same lines as the blatant propaganda some parties would have you swallow about DU shells acting like mini-nukes sucking people out of buildings they passed. And then irradiated.
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Post by kheegster »

ARRGHH!!! It's PHYSICISTS not PHYSICIANS!!!

The figures do seem slightly exaggerated, although they are certainly in the right order of magnitude. The fireball of the Nagasaki weapon was about 800m wide, and the fireball of a 1 MT weapon is several kilometres wide so for MT-sized weapons, the destructive radius is in the tens of kilometres, depending on factors such as burst altitude, terrain etc.
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