Most disappointing sci-fi revelation?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-29 05:23pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Hmmm.... I want to say the homecomings in Voyager, Titan AE, and Battlestar Galactica, but I think I have to say it's the B5 "We need to blow up the station because it would be a menace to navigation." They had B4 floating around for hundreds of years without any problems, and the manner in which the station's life ended was such a let-down.

JMS had given a bit more plausible excuse for the destruction of Babylon 5. Basically the EA disliked the station as reminder of the civil war and were also concerened about it becoming a haven for raiders.

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader · Post by **Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader** » 2002-11-29 08:20pm

Omega-13 wrote:midiclorians, ..or however you spell them
took the 'hope' and 'dreams' out of being a jedi, now you have to have a lot of these little bacteria....please

watch starwars a new hope, listen to the music and the feeling, and u got some hope there,

watch TPM, and your like...gay

Yes, sadly, it's true.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-11-30 04:16am

The Warhammer 40K universe might have some candidates, but I can't think of any right now...

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2002-11-30 04:38am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:The Warhammer 40K universe might have some candidates, but I can't think of any right now...

The fact that Space Marines (and Chaos) are whored in the miniatures games. I'm almost always the only Imperial Guard player at the monthly club meet, and even with my relatively large army (approx. 3000 points, infantry company), the number of Space Marine miniatures outnumbers all the orc, IG, eldar, dark eldar, necron, SoB, and tau ones combined.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-11-30 05:23am

Meanwhile Slaan players are busy converting Lizardmen with Japanese modeling kits, and parts from space Marine Kits.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-11-30 06:15am

Majin Gojira wrote:"Godzilla" 1998 or as we affectionally refer to him, GINO (Godzilla In Name Only)

Good choice. After such good teasers and then the lead up in the film itself....

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-11-30 06:38am

Stormbringer wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Hmmm.... I want to say the homecomings in Voyager, Titan AE, and Battlestar Galactica, but I think I have to say it's the B5 "We need to blow up the station because it would be a menace to navigation." They had B4 floating around for hundreds of years without any problems, and the manner in which the station's life ended was such a let-down.
JMS had given a bit more plausible excuse for the destruction of Babylon 5. Basically the EA disliked the station as reminder of the civil war and were also concerened about it becoming a haven for raiders.

It was also costing more money than what they would like to maintain it. To be honest, they could've turned it into a mueseum or something. By the way, do they ever reveal what happened to Babylon 4 after the first Great War?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-11-30 06:56am

Aya wrote:[

It was also costing more money than what they would like to maintain it. To be honest, they could've turned it into a mueseum or something. By the way, do they ever reveal what happened to Babylon 4 after the first Great War?

I think they did it in a comic book. I haven't seen or read it though.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-30 02:14pm

Aya wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Hmmm.... I want to say the homecomings in Voyager, Titan AE, and Battlestar Galactica, but I think I have to say it's the B5 "We need to blow up the station because it would be a menace to navigation." They had B4 floating around for hundreds of years without any problems, and the manner in which the station's life ended was such a let-down.
JMS had given a bit more plausible excuse for the destruction of Babylon 5. Basically the EA disliked the station as reminder of the civil war and were also concerened about it becoming a haven for raiders.
It was also costing more money than what they would like to maintain it. To be honest, they could've turned it into a mueseum or something. By the way, do they ever reveal what happened to Babylon 4 after the first Great War?

Of course they could, but it was expensive and would have required defense to keep it from becoming a pirate's nest. And the trade and diplomacy functions had seriously declined in importance.

In short, even as a museum it would have been a big drain for no gain.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-11-30 03:50pm

what happened to the wee woman Wedge boned for a while? i thought SHE desigend the thing? in the Maw instalation. Why does Lucas gice permision for these EU books if he plans to piss all over them?

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-11-30 03:51pm

oops i was talking about the Death Star there. oops

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-11-30 04:18pm

40K

The C'tan

Specifically that they took over the Necrontyr. If they were a form of ally it would be soo much cooler.

General G · Post by **General G** » 2002-11-30 08:52pm

Freespace 3

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-30 09:32pm

Darth Pounder wrote:what happened to the wee woman Wedge boned for a while? i thought SHE desigend the thing? in the Maw instalation. Why does Lucas gice permision for these EU books if he plans to piss all over them?

Arg.

I EXPLAINED THIS FAR TOO MANY TIMES. Please search for topics and use imagination.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-02 01:20am

Stormbringer wrote:Of course they could, but it was expensive and would have required defense to keep it from becoming a pirate's nest. And the trade and diplomacy functions had seriously declined in importance.

In short, even as a museum it would have been a big drain for no gain.

At EA's tech level, space settlements can be economically self-supporting to the point of being commercially viable profit making operations. If EA had to sink money into B5 to keep it operational then they're even slower of mind than the Pakleds.

Furthermore, if the station design life was so short that maintainace costs became prohibative after only 25 years then EA's engineers deserve to be hit upside the head with baseball bats.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-02 01:39am

Enlightenment wrote:At EA's tech level, space settlements can be economically self-supporting to the point of being commercially viable profit making operations. If EA had to sink money into B5 to keep it operational then they're even slower of mind than the Pakleds.

I think the problem is that one of it's big profit sources, Trade, dried up. Better navigation gear allowed them to by pass them. And it needs some food, and parts from outside. Costly when it's not making money.

Enlightenment wrote:Furthermore, if the station design life was so short that maintainace costs became prohibative after only 25 years then EA's engineers deserve to be hit upside the head with baseball bats.

It wasn't that it's no longer a viable space station so much as it's no longer worth the investment. And it's been said that the EA just didn't like what it remined them of.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-12-02 02:26am

Some of the new Jovian Chronicles stuff, where corporations build better warships than two planets that have been in a cold war for the better part of 25 years. Corporate espionage is good, but not that good.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-02 04:31am

Stormbringer wrote:I think the problem is that one of it's big profit sources, Trade, dried up. Better navigation gear allowed them to by pass them. And it needs some food, and parts from outside. Costly when it's not making money.

Trade in physical objects isn't the be all and end all of economic activity. B5 is a fairly decent location with good communications facilities, pre-existing life support, a permissive legal environment, and excellent tourism potential ("And this is the spot where the [current/former] ISA President nearly got killed due to [her/his] own stupidity...."). Given good communications any industry that only requires connectivity will work just as well on B5 as elsewhere in EA. This would include software development, video/TV production, music production, and whatever other industries EA lost because JMS lacked the vision to think of them. There would be more than enough economic activity within a settlement like B5 to provide a tax base sufficient to cover local operating costs.

That said, the fact that B5 was operated as a military dictatorship or imperial posession rather than a city with a civilian municipal government suggests a degree of rectrocranial inversion on behalf of EA on par with that of the UFP. In this context it is hardly surprising that EA could not understand the economic realities of space settlement.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-02 07:54am

Enlightenment wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I think the problem is that one of it's big profit sources, Trade, dried up. Better navigation gear allowed them to by pass them. And it needs some food, and parts from outside. Costly when it's not making money.
Trade in physical objects isn't the be all and end all of economic activity. B5 is a fairly decent location with good communications facilities, pre-existing life support, a permissive legal environment, and excellent tourism potential ("And this is the spot where the [current/former] ISA President nearly got killed due to [her/his] own stupidity...."). Given good communications any industry that only requires connectivity will work just as well on B5 as elsewhere in EA. This would include software development, video/TV production, music production, and whatever other industries EA lost because JMS lacked the vision to think of them. There would be more than enough economic activity within a settlement like B5 to provide a tax base sufficient to cover local operating costs.

Except there is no good reason to base anything off B5 when there are plants open and much cheaper. There is no compelling reason for the to move to B5, so why should a company move out to a vulnerable space station? There might be activity but it wouldn't necessarily cover the expenses of running a station as big as that.

Enlightenment wrote:That said, the fact that B5 was operated as a military dictatorship or imperial posession rather than a city with a civilian municipal government suggests a degree of rectrocranial inversion on behalf of EA on par with that of the UFP. In this context it is hardly surprising that EA could not understand the economic realities of space settlement.

And what is wrong with operating it as a military governorship? It's run and operated but the EA so what's wrong with Earthforce running the place?

Enlightenment, half this seems to be a desire on your part to simple bash B5 for anything, no matter how unreasonable.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-12-02 07:55am

Enlightenment wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I think the problem is that one of it's big profit sources, Trade, dried up. Better navigation gear allowed them to by pass them. And it needs some food, and parts from outside. Costly when it's not making money.
Trade in physical objects isn't the be all and end all of economic activity. B5 is a fairly decent location with good communications facilities, pre-existing life support, a permissive legal environment, and excellent tourism potential ("And this is the spot where the [current/former] ISA President nearly got killed due to [her/his] own stupidity...."). Given good communications any industry that only requires connectivity will work just as well on B5 as elsewhere in EA. This would include software development, video/TV production, music production, and whatever other industries EA lost because JMS lacked the vision to think of them. There would be more than enough economic activity within a settlement like B5 to provide a tax base sufficient to cover local operating costs.

That said, the fact that B5 was operated as a military dictatorship or imperial posession rather than a city with a civilian municipal government suggests a degree of rectrocranial inversion on behalf of EA on par with that of the UFP. In this context it is hardly surprising that EA could not understand the economic realities of space settlement.

Pardon lets see, As a Trade center of ANYTHING it is behind the times, anything it could have offered is now being done by the ISA. Before it was a point where different Nations could come together, meet each other in neutral terriotory and trade. But now those different nations where no longer exactly different nations, they had a shared government, this meant that there was no need for neutral territory. So why base yourself of planet, in a Spacestation, that seems to be a magnet for trouble, when you could be on a Planet, with a much better safty record. (After all it's not like a Planet can get a hull breach...) Perhaps at one of the Homeworlds of a Species, a Trade center in the ISA... Trade basically was able to be more direct as there where no more border's goods could move more freely.

All that is left therefore is the historical value, yes worth while, but hardly a history that the Earth Alliance wanted to remember...

As for B4... yep it was revealed in a comic book... more on what happened in a second post.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-12-02 08:05am

Babylon four was designed differently to all the other Babylon station's, it was why it was chosen for nabbing, at least in part. It had engines for actual movement, (Babylon 5 couldn't afford them as stated by the time they got round to Babylon five, they had to look else where for part of the building costs...) it was found in orbit round a planet, when they picked up a signal from it. Travelling out there they board the ship, and get into a fire fight with a group of unknown Aliens... (More on the Aliens later, they are important... VERY IMPORTANT) After winnign they proceed to the bridge and find the logs, personal logs of Sinclair's closest follower's and Sinclair's own.

Delenn reads through the Logs, the Comic will switch between the two tales, one of Sinclair as Valen and the other of the Station. Outside in space things are about to get hairy, The whitestar they came in Blows up, a lone Survivor of the Aliens in a space suit got up to it and planted some sort of bomb on it.

The Station is now doomed... and the command crew of B5 with it, delenn continues to read the Logs, including that of one Non-Minbari follower from an unknown species who took things Valen said WAY too far, including wiping out an entire species because they wern't with Valen. Valenn banishes them, they leave... yep it's the unknown Alien Species they are as commited to Valen as the Minbari but they have a very dark and twisted view on what he said, mercy is blowing a ship up to grant them a quick death etc....

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-02 10:58am

I would have thought that the EA or someone would have been interested in keeping B5 as a useful place to keep an eye on the Great Machine.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-02 11:00am

Tsyroc wrote:I would have thought that the EA or someone would have been interested in keeping B5 as a useful place to keep an eye on the Great Machine.

Maybe, but a ship on station would be a lot more effective. Especially when they can't get much off the machine anyways.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-02 11:03am

Stormbringer wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:I would have thought that the EA or someone would have been interested in keeping B5 as a useful place to keep an eye on the Great Machine.
Maybe, but a ship on station would be a lot more effective. Especially when they can't get much off the machine anyways.

Yeah, I guess with the improvements in their ships it really wouldn't be worth the cost of operating B5 when a ship would do.

Still, they could have left B5 where it was and asked Drall to keep an eye on it for them. That way it was there if anyone needed it but unlikely to be taken over by raiders.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-02 11:31am

Tsyroc wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:I would have thought that the EA or someone would have been interested in keeping B5 as a useful place to keep an eye on the Great Machine.
Maybe, but a ship on station would be a lot more effective. Especially when they can't get much off the machine anyways.
Yeah, I guess with the improvements in their ships it really wouldn't be worth the cost of operating B5 when a ship would do.

Still, they could have left B5 where it was and asked Drall to keep an eye on it for them. That way it was there if anyone needed it but unlikely to be taken over by raiders.

I don't think Draal has that kind of relationship with the EA. And I know the EA wouldn't ask.