How long would it take them (Noah's family & races)

[Magnetic]

Considering a world wide flood taking place some 4800 years ago, how long would it take Noah's family, and their decendants to repopulate all the world with the various different races that we see today, even assuming that they actually had all the genetic traits possible for african, asian, indian, nordic, etc. . . or was this another one of God's many post-flood miracles?

[NecronLord]

Short answer. No. That's not a stable gene pool, you'd end up more inbred than Prince Charles in a few generations.

But let's assume divine intervention

The maximum children commonly had by any population on record, is IIRC, 7.9 per woman. Now, let's assume, this being ancient world and all, that a generation can somehow be 15 years.

In other words, every fifteen years, the population quadruples.

2800 years - according to a demographics lecture I had today, the estimated world population at the 'time of christ' is 500 million. But I've also seen 100 million.

Let's say 100 million, to be kind.

2800 = 187 generations.

Dividing by four ten times, we get down to 1.49 people. So yes, with divine intervention to keep the gene pool working, and absurd population growth, it's possible.

At all likely, hell no.

[wolveraptor]

How long did it take humanity to do that in real life...well, being primitive in tech, humans then took tens of thousands of years, iirc. These people might only take, around 5000 (pure conjecture). Howeve, in order for the population to reach what it is today, what with disease, attrition and wars, all the shit they had back then, it should easily take longer.

Of course, the real answer is forever, because they'd all die of recessive genetic disorders from inbreeding.

[Magnetic]

I wonder if I should ask this question in my christian forum site and see what responses I get.

Anyway, that's the thing, you have one prodomently jewish family, probably completely jewish, if you follow the geneology line, put them on an ark, kill off everyone else, yet today we see people of all races, many who look different than other races.

Some christians may say that perhaps, at the Tower of Babel, not just the language was changed bu the way the look as well. However, I would have thought that such a drastic and sudden change would take precedence over speech.

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else?

[Ace Pace]

They wern't Jews, this was before Abraham.

[Darth Wong]

A better question would be a couple of Noah's offspring managed to get over to Egypt and create a thriving civilization with its own distinct language while constructing pyramids within a couple of centuries. Mind you, the original date estimate for the Flood was not quite so long ago; it was moved back because of the embarassment of contradicting Egyptian history which goes that far back.

[Kurgan]

Wouldn't they simply say that the "knowledge existed" and was preserved on the ark? Of course it would assume that Noah's family was a decidedly mixed and brilliant bunch, encompassing all the previous "knowledge" of the world. Like a floating library of Alexandria or something...

[Surlethe]

I wonder if I should ask this question in my christian forum site and see what responses I get.

I guarantee you the response will be "well, the flood was what, 4800 years ago? Then it took Noah's family and their descendents exactly 4800 years to repopulate all the earth with their descendents to reach exactly todays' current diversity! Praise God!"

[wolveraptor]

A better question would be a couple of Noah's offspring managed to get over to Egypt and create a thriving civilization with its own distinct language while constructing pyramids within a couple of centuries. Mind you, the original date estimate for the Flood was not quite so long ago; it was moved back because of the embarassment of contradicting Egyptian history which goes that far back.

How does one get dates for Biblical events, anyways? I don't remember the Genesis saying, "And 6,000-10,000 yrs ago, God created..."

[Metatwaddle]

I think you add up the years of people's lifetimes, for example Adam lived 900 or so years, Noah lived for about 600, etc. I'm not sure if you can do that through the entire Bible, but given that it seems to be a common consensus that the Bible says the earth is about 6000 years old (or was it created in 6000 BCE? I can't remember) I'm guessing there's a thread that you can follow, and where there isn't, you just assume generations take 20 years or so?

[Surlethe]

A better question would be a couple of Noah's offspring managed to get over to Egypt and create a thriving civilization with its own distinct language while constructing pyramids within a couple of centuries. Mind you, the original date estimate for the Flood was not quite so long ago; it was moved back because of the embarassment of contradicting Egyptian history which goes that far back.

How does one get dates for Biblical events, anyways? I don't remember the Genesis saying, "And 6,000-10,000 yrs ago, God created..."

Like so.

From Wikipedia:

The Ussher-Lightfoot Calendar is a 17th century chronology of the history of the world formulated from an interpretative reading of the Bible by James Ussher, the Anglican Archbishop of Armagh (in what is now Northern Ireland). The chronology, first published in 1650, is famously the source of the citation by many modern Creationists that the universe was created by God in 4004 BC.

The chronology is named for Ussher, as well as John Lightfoot, who published a similar chronology in 1642–1644. The chronology is, however, arguably misnamed, as it based on Ussher's work, and not on that of Lightfoot, who was later the Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge University. Ussher's work, more properly known as the Annales veteris testamenti, a prima mundi origine deducti (Annals of the Old Testament, deduced from the first origins of the world), was his contribution to the long-running theological debate on the age of the Earth. This was a major concern of many Christian scholars over the centuries. Ussher deduced that the first day of Creation began at nightfall preceding Sunday October 23, 4004 BC in the proleptic Julian calendar, near the autumnal equinox, while Lightfoot similarly deduced that Creation began at nightfall near the autumnal equinox, but in the year 3929 BC.

Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC was not greatly different from the estimates of the Venerable Bede (3952 BC) or Ussher's near-contemporary, Scaliger (3949 BC). It was widely believed that the Earth's potential duration was 6,000 years (4,000 before the birth of Christ and 2,000 after) corresponding to the six days of Creation, on the grounds that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2 Peter 3:8 ).

[defanatic]

Of course, now some people are saying the world is going to END. How silly (not to mock their beli... Yes, actually, I am... Hahaha). What evidence do they use to support it?

Because the earth can only survive for 6000 years and one generation (rather than 6000 years of 1974, as was previously said and debunked, so they changed it). However, if the world does end this year, I will personally give every one who says so a dollar.

[Crayz9000]

2 Peter 3:8 is actually a rebuke to all the people who were trying to figure out the exact date of the Second Coming. Ussher and Lightfoot basically took it out of context just to explain their pet idea, and that's where the whole "Young Earth" argument started. It's bullshit mixed with more bullshit, rationalized, reheated, and served as a new idea.

3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Of course the author of 2 Peter was probably trying to cover his ass, given that Christ hadn't appeared yet (and still hasn't), but the point remains -- you can't apply literal dates to the Bible because it just doesn't work. The only part that can really be dated is the Gospels, and that's only because the authors included deliberate references to contemporary political figures and the Romans kept good records.

[Zero]

Of course, now some people are saying the world is going to END. How silly (not to mock their beli... Yes, actually, I am... Hahaha). What evidence do they use to support it?

Because the earth can only survive for 6000 years and one generation (rather than 6000 years of 1974, as was previously said and debunked, so they changed it). However, if the world does end this year, I will personally give every one who says so a dollar.

If it happens to end next Sunday, you owe me at least a bloody lunch. Of course, this has nothing to do with the second coming. I'm just saying, if we're all dead on Sunday, me and you are meeting up in the bardo, and you're paying.

Seriously, people have always been saying the world's end is JUST around the corner. Most of the abnormalities which people claim to be a sign of the end of the world are actually quite common historically. That's probably part of why this religion has survived so well. People see the signs of the end of the world, think they will be judged soon, and decide that they want themselves, and all of their children to go to heaven. Fear is the best way to promote any idea.

[Rye]

The Young Earth thing is scripturally accurate, since it gives an unbroken lineage up to the destruction of the first temple and babylonian captivity,and probably a few other events, which you can get a date range from. Suffice it to say, it does not extend back millions of years.

Young Earth, like a flat Earth, was always a fixture of abrahamic religion.

[Setesh]

See originally they declared that the earth was 6000 years old, but that fell apart since the pre-dynastic period of egyptian history started before 5000BCE. So they got some actual math down and moved the mark to 10-12000 depending on which yahoo you talk to.

Egypt has always been problamatic for Judeo-christian literalists. The referances in the bible to egypt are very much a joke compared to egyptian record keeping. To the yahoo's (Sorry I just read Gulliver's Travals to my cousin, the original) who moved the flood to 4800-6000 years ago I point out that recorded egyptian history (earliest records around 5400BCE) occured 7405 years ago, and there is no evidence of a flood on that scale in their history.

3400-3100BCE (5400-5100 years ago) the unification of egypt into a single nation had begun. The first and scond Dynasties ruled. None of those records tell of a massive flood either, lots of wars, but the only flood was the 'Nile Yearly'

3100-2180 BCE (5100-4180 years ago.) While Biblical inerrency adherants claim the flood was going on the Third Dynasty was building the first Pyramids to replace the old Mastabas.

Starting to see why they hate egyptology?

I did come across one guy who proclaimed God gave him the answer in a 'vision', the flood was localized in the middleast. He walked away before I could stop laughing.

[Luzifer's right hand]

The Young Earth thing is scripturally accurate, since it gives an unbroken lineage up to the destruction of the first temple and babylonian captivity,and probably a few other events, which you can get a date range from. Suffice it to say, it does not extend back millions of years.

Young Earth, like a flat Earth, was always a fixture of abrahamic religion.

The chatolic church is rather fond of the big bang theory an it's the biggest abrahamic religion.

[Rye]

So? They're fucking liars if they think the Bible supports it.

[Luzifer's right hand]

So? They're fucking liars if they think the Bible supports it.

The bible can support anything if you do not interpret it literary.

[Rye]

Again, so what? There *is* such a thing as critical reading of a religious text, and there is such a thing as the established traditions of a set of religions. The fact that the bible turned out to be wrong doesn't change the text, nor the prior young earth traditions of the religions. There are still several muslims, jews and christians that think the earth is young, as have many authoritative voices for each religion until more recently.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm sure someone by the end of this century they'll have been forced to give up on "the day is soon" and to keep the theories valid will just tack on the Day of Rest as standing for an extra millennium to say that the end of the world will come on 1 January, 2996.

[Akhlut]

Stuff about populations.

This is also assuming mankind never, you know, warred on each other or had plagues or had a high infant mortality rate, right? And any evidence of those things is like the dinosaurs or something where God's just trying to trick us, right?

[Gil Hamilton]

I'm sure someone by the end of this century they'll have been forced to give up on "the day is soon" and to keep the theories valid will just tack on the Day of Rest as standing for an extra millennium to say that the end of the world will come on 1 January, 2996.

I'm pretty sure the Rapture is always upon us. I've read accounts of people at the end of the 19th Century doing the math and claiming the Rapture was upon them, leading to a bunch of people jumping off cliffs. Someone is always going to cook the numbers just right to come to the conclusion that Rapture will happen next Thursday and some other group will believe them.

Hell, there is a dude in Israel right now trying to trigger the rapture by trying to secure funding to make a Holy Temple Laser Light Show over the appropriate spot in Jeruselum.

Personally, I encourage all of this, because there is alot of money to be had in Rapture Merchandising and Advertising. I mean, no one wants to be lifted without death into heaven to meet the Lamb of God without a fabulous 100 dollar machine washable (important!) holy vestment, right?

[Magnetic]

Have we addressed the ability of that small group of people giving birth to what we see now as africans, asians, nordic, etc?

[nickolay1]

And also spreading throughout the globe and planting fake ancient artifacts of their curltures.