Law makers and creations creators

[defanatic]

Why is it that Christians seem to believe that laws require an law giver, or creations a creator? And that complexity is proof of a designer.

For example, who created the 'law' of supply and demand?

Also, complexity...
Well, let's say I have a bucket of sand. Now I tip all the sand out on to a flat mat. Somehow, I am able to map where every grain of sand is. Now, it is very complex. Indeed, not in a million years would another tipped up bucket of sand be the same as that bucket of sand. So I conclude that, because it is so complex and unlikely to have happened, that it is 'designed'.

Are these valid arguments?

[Edi]

They (fundies) think of everything in a framework of God. The bit about laws is that a large society can't function without some,often very extensive sets of laws, and somebody has to draft them. In the ancient times it was usually the priesthood (appealing to the higher authority of various magical earth, water, sky, fire and other pixies), or they at least had a great influence on the rulers who did set the laws. But it can just as well be done by a secular representative democractic process.

In that sense, there is no single lawgiver, and nothing outside society itself is ever required.

As for intelligent design, stupid people tend to equate complex with smart, when in the design business simple = smart is the actual fact of the matter. Unnecessary complexity means poor, flawed design, and if they really think that humans and other creatures are well designed, they're morons. For example, the simple and vitally necessary process of eating and drinking entails a potentially fatal choking hazard every time we do it.

Your sand bucket example is another one that is viable against them, but really, aren't youbeing terribly inconsiderate, knocking down their walls of ignorance like that?

Edi

[Greymalkin]

Why is it that Christians seem to believe that laws require an law giver, or creations a creator? And that complexity is proof of a designer.

For example, who created the 'law' of supply and demand?

Fundies as tend to use God as their "ace up the sleave", it is their ultimate card in a debate - not just and appeal to some bland earthly authority, but to the Almighty himself. And when they have little else to debate with, they tend to envoke the name of God as evidence to support their claims.

Also, complexity...
Well, let's say I have a bucket of sand. Now I tip all the sand out on to a flat mat. Somehow, I am able to map where every grain of sand is. Now, it is very complex. Indeed, not in a million years would another tipped up bucket of sand be the same as that bucket of sand. So I conclude that, because it is so complex and unlikely to have happened, that it is 'designed'.

Are these valid arguments?

No, the argument in itself is a fallacy. Complex and unlikely to occur cannot equate to designed. Ofcourse, the fundies may not understand that . Which is why they end up appealing to God.