Use of the word "gay" to mean something bad

[Lord Pounder]

To Stark McC: you guys are acting like total breeders.

The simple fact of the mater is when you use the term queer, or fag, or gay as a deragatory you you demeaning a large section of the population. Really roll this over in your head. If i thought someone was acting like a complete idiot should I tell him he's acting like a complete nigger, spick or any other of the wonderful insulting words WASP's have invented for groups they don't like? The English language is wonderful and if you really had a proper grasp of it you'd know some more appropriate words for describing how you feel.

[Darth Wong]

So if "white guy" was used as a synonym for "asshole", that shouldn't bother white guys because it's just language?

Hell, it already is used negatively.

Bullshit. "White guy" has not become synonymous with "asshole". The day someone says "what a white guy" and that actually means "what an asshole", then you might have a point.

I feel that the intent of the language is more important than the correct meanings of the words. I always make fun of my friends for being sun-burned, easily-bruised whiteys. Am I now racist?

Telling a white guy that he sunburns easily is hardly racist because white, easily burned skin is a legitimate characteristic of white guys. Using "white guy" as an insult, on the other hand, is definitely racist. Why are you so goddamned stupid that you won't admit this, asshole?

[McC]

Bullshit. "White guy" has not become synonymous with "asshole". The day someone says "what a white guy" and that actually means "what an asshole", then you might have a point.

Oh come off it. "White guy" is already synonymous with a lot of 'negative' things, and anyone who takes offense to them is being as overly sensistive as the homosexuals (and heteros, really) that find 'gay' offensive.

"White men can't jump"? "White boys can't dance"? Please. Stereotypes-as-humor exist everywhere. Calling something gay (I emphasize the thing part, 'cause that's what this discussion is about) is no less damaging. Saying anything else is trying to victimize the group it in some way references, instead of taking it as satirical.

[Darth Wong]

Bullshit. "White guy" has not become synonymous with "asshole". The day someone says "what a white guy" and that actually means "what an asshole", then you might have a point.

Oh come off it. "White guy" is already synonymous with a lot of 'negative' things, and anyone who takes offense to them is being as overly sensistive as the homosexuals (and heteros, really) that find 'gay' offensive.

The only people who use "white guy" as a perjorative term are black racists, you stupid asshole. Your example only proves the fucking point.

[McC]

The only people who use "white guy" as a perjorative term are black racists, you stupid asshole. Your example only proves the fucking point.

Oh please. I used the term derrogatorily today regarding myself while admiring some public breakdancing. I remarked to my girlfriend, "Wow, I wish I could do that. But, I'm a white guy. No chance." It was exchanged in jest. If you want to ascribe some kind of deeper social issue to that, you're just begging to make up problems to rant about.

[Darth Wong]

The only people who use "white guy" as a perjorative term are black racists, you stupid asshole. Your example only proves the fucking point.

Oh please. I used the term derrogatorily today regarding myself while admiring some public breakdancing. I remarked to my girlfriend, "Wow, I wish I could do that. But, I'm a white guy. No chance." It was exchanged in jest. If you want to ascribe some kind of deeper social issue to that, you're just begging to make up problems to rant about.

Hey dipshit, like it or not, that is a racist statement. It's no less racist than "black kids can't do math". The fact that you said it does not mean that it can't be a racist statement, moron. And "it was said in jest" doesn't change anything; it's still a racist statement. What you're saying is that racism is humourous; a lot of people obviously feel this way, as demonstrated by the popularity of black race-comedians like Dave Chappelle, but it's still racism.

[McC]

Hey dipshit, like it or not, that is a racist statement. It's no less racist than "black kids can't do math". The fact that you said it does not mean that it can't be a racist statement, moron.

Yes, in the absolute strict definition of the term racist, I was being racist...against my own race. Good job, bravo, you caught me red-handed. Does it make a shit of a difference? Fuck no. Not to mention this entire tangent is a very large red herring to the whole argument.

Back at hand: does it actually target discrimination against homosexuals when referring to something as "gay"? I say no. I've said why I say no. I've yet to see any valid rebuttal, other than whining and whinging about what amounts to PCism..

[Darth Wong]

Hey dipshit, like it or not, that is a racist statement. It's no less racist than "black kids can't do math". The fact that you said it does not mean that it can't be a racist statement, moron.

Yes, in the absolute strict definition of the term racist, I was being racist...against my own race. Good job, bravo, you caught me red-handed.

Yes, moron. What part of this do you refuse to recognize? Are you saying it's impossible for racists to have stereotypes against their own race? Self-defeating racism is killing the prospects of young black men in America, moron. Anyone who dismisses racism because it attacks the speaker's own race is an idiot.

Does it make a shit of a difference? Fuck no. Not to mention this entire tangent is a very large red herring to the whole argument.

Hardly. It speaks to the heart of the argument: that you and idiots like you think that there's nothing wrong with using the name of a group as an insult.

Back at hand: does it actually target discrimination against homosexuals when referring to something as "gay"? I say no. I've said why I say no. I've yet to see any valid rebuttal, other than whining and whinging about what amounts to PCism..

Of course not, since "target discrimination against homosexuals" is a completely fucking meaningless statement. However, you have been shown that it's just as sexist as "black guys can't do math" is racist. If you are honestly such an imbecile that you can't figure out why the latter is true, then I guess you're being consistently stupid by not figuring out why the former is true either.

But I guess just calling it "PC" and hoping to dismiss it with that label is a perfectly valid rebuttal in IdiotLand. I know it certainly works for Rush Limbaugh.

[McC]

Yes, moron. What part of this do you refuse to recognize? Are you saying it's impossible for racists to have stereotypes against their own race? Self-defeating racism is killing the prospects of young black men in America, moron. Anyone who dismisses racism because it attacks the speaker's own race is an idiot.

If the remark is serious, fine. I don't actually think I couldn't learn breakdancing over time. I made the remark in jest. For fuck's sake.

Hardly. It speaks to the heart of the argument: that you and idiots like you think that there's nothing wrong with using the name of a group as an insult.

You're right, I don't think taking a group name and turning into something else entirely is a bad course of action. For instance, I also think "niggerated" is a terribly funny word. Not because it hearkens back to slavery in America, but because it sounds funny by itself. As a collection of sounds. I would also gladly punch in the face anyone that tried to short-change a black man over a white man or some such. Rectify that one.

Of course not, since "target discrimination against homosexuals" is a completely fucking meaningless statement. However, you have been shown that it's just as sexist as "black guys can't do math" is racist. If you are honestly such an imbecile that you can't figure out why the latter is true, then I guess you're being consistently stupid by not figuring out why the former is true either.

That doesn't make any fucking sense and you know it. "You're gay, so obviously you're _____" equates to "black guys can't do math." Saying something like, "Goddamnit, that math test was so fucking gay" to indicate dissatisfaction on the other hand is using a word to connote dissatisfaction. Only someone with an agenda actually gives a shit about the word you use to connote dissastifaction. I would also assert that saying "Goddamnit, that math test was such a fucking nigger" would be appropriate, because it takes the word completely out of fucking context and applies it somewhere else.

[Darth Wong]

I made the remark in jest. For fuck's sake.

This "rebuttal" was already anticipated and answered in a previous post, asshole.

You're right, I don't think taking a group name and turning into something else entirely is a bad course of action. For instance, I also think "niggerated" is a terribly funny word. Not because it hearkens back to slavery in America, but because it sounds funny by itself. As a collection of sounds. I would also gladly punch in the face anyone that tried to short-change a black man over a white man or some such. Rectify that one.

I notice you replaced "not racist" with "not bad". So you're admitting it's racist but you don't think it's bad. Is that what you're saying?

That doesn't make any fucking sense and you know it. "You're gay, so obviously you're _____" equates to "black guys can't do math."

Yes it does, unless blank part is "attracted to guys". I'm getting sick of the way you "refute" arguments not by actually showing that there's anything wrong with them, but by rolling your eyes and assuming that everyone else should do the same without explaining why.

Saying something like, "Goddamnit, that math test was so fucking gay" to indicate dissatisfaction on the other hand is using a word to connote dissatisfaction. Only someone with an agenda actually gives a shit about the word you use to connote dissastifaction.

Appeal to Motive fallacy, fucktard. Yet again, you cannot come up with a logical reason to support your bullshit.

I would also assert that saying "Goddamnit, that math test was such a fucking nigger" would be appropriate, because it takes the word completely out of fucking context and applies it somewhere else.

Yet again, you repeat your "it must not be bad because I would do it" bullshit. For the umpteenth time, that is not an argument. Do you think you're some kind of fucking paragon of moral virtue, so that anything you do must be righteous by default? How many fucking times can you "refute" an argument by simply saying "well I do it, so it can't be bad"?

[McC]

This "rebuttal" was already anticipated and answered in a previous post, asshole.

Which you edited your post to say, which I can't do, so I ignored it. And I'm not trying to deny that it's "racist." I'm simply saying that it doesn't fucking matter that it is.

I notice you replaced "not racist" with "not bad". So you're admitting it's racist but you don't think it's bad. Is that what you're saying?

If you want to play this game, then yes. That's what I'm saying. Jesting racism is not harmful. I imagine you will now ignore the jesting part (or dismiss it, as above) and focus on the fact that I just said "...racism is not harmful."

That doesn't make any fucking sense and you know it. "You're gay, so obviously you're _____" equates to "black guys can't do math."

Yes it does, unless blank part is "attracted to guys". I'm getting sick of the way you "refute" arguments not by actually showing that there's anything wrong with them, but by rolling your eyes and assuming that everyone else should do the same without explaining why.[/quote]

In this case, it's an acceptable response, 'cause what you're saying doesn't make any damn sense. You're trying to use a stereotype about a group of people and equate it with using a name for the group of people as a bad thing. A lot of the people who say "Don't call things gay because that insults gay people" have the same mentality. I don't think it's got any weight to it, personally.

Again, if you say "Gay guys can't ______," that's one thing. If you say "That's so gay," that's a completely different thing. The problem with substituting black in there is that most people will reflexively think of the color black, and then give you a funny look 'cause they won't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Appeal to Motive fallacy, fucktard. Yet again, you cannot come up with a logical reason to support your bullshit.

Fair enough. I'm appealing to motive. There seems to be one.

Yet again, you repeat your "it must not be bad because I would do it" bullshit. For the umpteenth time, that is not an argument. Do you think you're some kind of fucking paragon of moral virtue, so that anything you do must be righteous by default? How many fucking times can you "refute" an argument by simply saying "well I do it, so it can't be bad"?

You know, quote any other part of my response and this reaction might make sense, but the part you quoted was an assertion, not a holding up of myself as a paragon of virtue. Focus on the part that matters: taking a word out of context and applying it elsewhere, which is the entire point I've been talking about this entire damn thread.

[The Guid]

Your posts are so McC.

I hope you don't get offended that I have decided to use you as a paragon of stupidity or negativity or something that's just rubbish. I'm taking the word and using it in another context. It actually has nothing to do with you. Don't be so fucking McC and stop getting your knickers in a twist about it. In my head "McC" meaning you and "McC" meaning anything negative that happens to be in my head are completely seperate concepts. The fact that I got to one via the other is, again, irrelevent.

And just as a side note the whole "white man can't jump" or "white man can't dance" thing can in fact be construed as racism and indeed racism towards black people. The fact that you seem to be saying that certain races are specialised into certain tasks or more suited to some is certainly racist.

[McC]

Your posts are so McC.

I hope you don't get offended that I have decided to use you as a paragon of stupidity or negativity or something that's just rubbish. I'm taking the word and using it in another context. It actually has nothing to do with you. Don't be so fucking McC and stop getting your knickers in a twist about it. In my head "McC" meaning you and "McC" meaning anything negative that happens to be in my head are completely seperate concepts. The fact that I got to one via the other is, again, irrelevent.

Go for it. I'll be happy to have made such an impact on your life.

And just as a side note the whole "white man can't jump" or "white man can't dance" thing can in fact be construed as racism and indeed racism towards black people. The fact that you seem to be saying that certain races are specialised into certain tasks or more suited to some is certainly racist.

That's the point. It's making fun of the stereotype, not saying the given group can't actually do it. Though I don't follow how those could be construed as racism towards black people.

[The Guid]

Go for it. I'll be happy to have made such an impact on your life.

Good. I hope you don't mind that anyone like you is going to get beaten up in school and held in open hatred by large swathes of the world do you with there being hidden stigma in supposedly liberal countries? And then you'll have this word used by people who purport to be reasonably intelligent and liberated from bigotry.

All fine here then.

[McC]

Good. I hope you don't mind that anyone like you is going to get beaten up in school and held in open hatred by large swathes of the world do you with there being hidden stigma in supposedly liberal countries? And then you'll have this word used by people who purport to be reasonably intelligent and liberated from bigotry.

All fine here then.

I've been the target of scorn for most of my life for being willing to have an opinion that wasn't PC, and for being willing to voice it and stand by it. You're not telling me anything new, nor anything terribly distressing that I haven't already come to terms with.

[Surlethe]

Back at hand: does it actually target discrimination against homosexuals when referring to something as "gay"? I say no. I've said why I say no. I've yet to see any valid rebuttal, other than whining and whinging about what amounts to PCism..

On a slightly different angle, why is PCism necessarily bad?

[McC]

On a slightly different angle, why is PCism necessarily bad?

Because it's a disgusting byproduct of a society set out to coddle everyone and make them feel 'nice,' which has had a helping hand in leadingto the current state of affairs in U.S. pre-college education. There's so much focus on making everyone feel successful, that there's no focus on actually teaching anything. I'm utterly sick to death of it, and make a point of striking it down wherever I see it (hence why I've bothered to stick with the thread for so long). You want a world where things aren't made fun of and no one's offended? Fine. That's not the world I want.

[The Guid]

You want a world where things aren't made fun of and no one's offended? Fine. That's not the world I want.

Hang on. That's total McC. I make fun of people all of the time, I insult them and you know why that's OK? Because I don't
a. Use bigotted language.
b. Mock stereotypes or a race, a sexuality, or gender in general.

So don't hide behind this idea that PC is about putting everyone in bubble wrap. That's nonsense.

And on another note - PCism leads irrevicobly to bad education according to you? And yet having a term for a sexuality also meaning something bad doesn't ever lead to bigotry? Or is not a helping hand/ side product of it? seriously, decide whether imaginitive leaps are possible or not.

[Surlethe]

Because it's a disgusting byproduct of a society set out to coddle everyone and make them feel 'nice,' which has had a helping hand in leadingto the current state of affairs in U.S. pre-college education. There's so much focus on making everyone feel successful, that there's no focus on actually teaching anything. I'm utterly sick to death of it, and make a point of striking it down wherever I see it (hence why I've bothered to stick with the thread for so long). You want a world where things aren't made fun of and no one's offended? Fine. That's not the world I want.

Because political correctness, as a whole, is a negative influence, every single aspect of political correctness must therefore be bad? That's an McC fallacy of division if I ever saw one.

[McC]

Hang on. That's total McC. I make fun of people all of the time, I insult them and you know why that's OK? Because I don't
a. Use bigotted language.
b. Mock stereotypes or a race, a sexuality, or gender in general.

So don't hide behind this idea that PC is about putting everyone in bubble wrap. That's nonsense.

Shall we excise "fuck" and "shit" because people are offended by those terms? If I call the a test complete shit, does that mean I'm actually attributing bad attributes to fecal matter (other than odor)? Am I actually saying that the test smelled bad? Get off it. It's only bigotted 'cause it's a current event. People still get all upset over the user of the word "fuck," but I'm not going to shed a tear for them, either. How is the use of any other word different?

And on another note - PCism leads irrevicobly to bad education according to you? And yet having a term for a sexuality also meaning something bad doesn't ever lead to bigotry? Or is not a helping hand/ side product of it? seriously, decide whether imaginitive leaps are possible or not.

Is there a stigma attached to sex because we use the word "Fuck" as a swear, too? No. This is an entirely idiotic line of reasoning.

Because political correctness, as a whole, is a negative influence, every single aspect of political correctness must therefore be bad? That's an McC fallacy of division if I ever saw one.

1). A McC. If you're going to use the word, at least pronounce it right. "Mick-See."

2) And frankly, on a site that's all about confronting people with harsh truths to dispel their securities, I honestly don't understand why anyone would defend PCism in any way, shape, or form.

[Surlethe]

2) And frankly, on a site that's all about confronting people with harsh truths to dispel their securities, I honestly don't understand why anyone would defend PCism in any way, shape, or form.

You completely missed my point, moron. Try again, and read my post this time.

[McC]

You completely missed my point, moron. Try again, and read my post this time.

Hey, dumbshit, try understanding the subtext. I'm asking you what tenents of PCism are actually worth saving.

[SirNitram]

You completely missed my point, moron. Try again, and read my post this time.

Hey, dumbshit, try understanding the subtext. I'm asking you what tenents of PCism are actually worth saving.

Define PCism. Explain why it should be discarded. Try avoiding the use of fallacies. That'd be a good start. It's unlikely, but we always hope.

[wolveraptor]

The simple fact of the mater is when you use the term queer, or fag, or gay as a deragatory you you demeaning a large section of the population.

They're demeaned if I say that this discussion is gay. Why are they so sensitive? They should be more concerned if I actually hold anti-homosexual views, rather than if I use a word they don't like.

[Surlethe]

You completely missed my point, moron. Try again, and read my post this time.

Hey, dumbshit, try understanding the subtext. I'm asking you what tenents of PCism are actually worth saving.

For an illiterate assmonkey, you read rather badly. I'm saying your dismissal of the criticism of the utilization of "gay" on the grounds of PCism is a fallacy of division, you cretin. You in no manner responded to that point.