US gov spyes on you through printers

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2005-10-19 03:33am

Sounds like a bad joke I know but sadly it is true!

EFF.ORG has all the dirty info about this.

More Info

Yet more Info

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-10-19 06:48am

Just as well I don't have an overpriced, colour laserprinter then.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2005-10-19 09:57am

So, what do these tracking dots mean exactly?

i wouldn't be surprised if it was simply the printers serial code or something.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-19 11:42am

Oh shit! You mean I can't except my ransom letter or death threat to be totally anonymous now?

Seriously, what the fuck? I fail to see how this is a serious privacy violation any more than your email having your IP address tacked on to it. Please explain to me how this specifically can be used to take away my rights.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-10-19 01:52pm

I don't see how this is really a problem. With the sheer amount of printers out there, wouldn't it be next to impossible to trace where one of these documents came from, even with the special dots?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-19 01:54pm

General Zod wrote:I don't see how this is really a problem. With the sheer amount of printers out there, wouldn't it be next to impossible to trace where one of these documents came from, even with the special dots?

Not really, not if the serial number of the printer is in the dots.

What I still fail to see is WHY this is a problem. Even assuming the government can track a specific piece of paper to a printer you own, how is this a clear violation of privacy?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-10-19 02:06pm

Hotfoot wrote:
General Zod wrote:I don't see how this is really a problem. With the sheer amount of printers out there, wouldn't it be next to impossible to trace where one of these documents came from, even with the special dots?
Not really, not if the serial number of the printer is in the dots.

Well, even if that's the case, how can they track it down to its original owner? It's not as though most stores will keep records of who they sell the printer to, and except for big businesses there probably won't be any easy way to trace it to the owner at all through serial numbers. Plus it's more difficult that the government would actually have to get ahold of the document to trace it in the first place.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2005-10-19 02:30pm

General Zod wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:
General Zod wrote:I don't see how this is really a problem. With the sheer amount of printers out there, wouldn't it be next to impossible to trace where one of these documents came from, even with the special dots?
Not really, not if the serial number of the printer is in the dots.
Well, even if that's the case, how can they track it down to its original owner? It's not as though most stores will keep records of who they sell the printer to, and except for big businesses there probably won't be any easy way to trace it to the owner at all through serial numbers. Plus it's more difficult that the government would actually have to get ahold of the document to trace it in the first place.

Why do you think they ask you to register stuff?

Maybe its to help protect big busineses (the kind of people who buy laser printers) prove something came from a specific printer or some such.

Datana · Post by **Datana** » 2005-10-19 03:48pm

As for how they can track you (if you didn't read the linked articles): The dots encode time and serial number. Printer manufacturers are obliged to log which retailer they shipped each unit to, and each retailer is obliged to log each sale (if you go to, say, Staples, you'll notice that they barcode scan the box twice when you purchase a printer, once on the externally printed serial number). If you made a credit card purchase, they now have a credit card number tied to serial number. After that, it's a simple matter of following the paper trail. If you registered the printer, it becomes even easier -- you're normally required to submit the serial number along with name and address.

As for the tracking itself, it doesn't seem like a problem at all, unless you're a counterfeiter, kidnapper, or performing sedition/writing threats (in all cases, you deserve what you get). Only the guilty and paranoid have anything to fear from tracking like this. If you are that paranoid, however, the easiest way of evading detection is just to pay in cash.

EDIT: Clarified a point that looked like flamebait if read incorrectly.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-10-19 05:56pm

Hotfoot wrote:Oh shit! You mean I can't except my ransom letter or death threat to be totally anonymous now?

Seriously, what the fuck? I fail to see how this is a serious privacy violation any more than your email having your IP address tacked on to it. Please explain to me how this specifically can be used to take away my rights.

Ummmmmm... If IP addresses are displayed in e-mails, it's news to me. I just got done sending e-mail between my various accounts to check, and am not seeing it anywhere. Unless it's something that you normally can't access.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-10-19 06:01pm

Oh teh noes, now the FBI knows that I used two pages from a prono manga to test opacity with printing on both sides of a sheet...

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-10-19 06:03pm

Never mind. I'm a dipshit.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2005-10-19 06:23pm

DrkHelmet wrote:It's in the header. If you use Outlook Express (perish the thought), right click on an e-mail and click on properties. Then click the details tab.

The header contains the MailServers IP adress, not yours!

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-10-19 06:26pm

Faram wrote: The header contains the MailServers IP adress, not yours!

Hot damn you're right. I just forgot my IP address again (it's only different by 1 number). Retracted.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-19 08:07pm

Ya, and Homeland security keylogs everything you type and likely sends it to the NSA super computer. Big fucking deal.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-19 08:30pm

Who the fuck personally buys color laser printers? B&W I can see, they've easily got one of the lowest per-page costs of any printer type, but color laser printers are usually a bit too expensive for most folks to consider purchasing.

Furthermore, this whole conspiracy scheme falls apart the instant the original purchaser turns around and re-sells it. If you're so paranoid THE GUBMINT is going to track down the loony-left flyers for anarcho-capitalism you've been printing, you could just pay for the printer with cash. Or, if you're convinced they're going to take your picture and save it forever when you buy such a printer, you could give someone else the money with which to buy it, and then have him say he sold it off in a garage sale to a stranger. Or you could even buy a color laser printer which doesn't have this function!

I think we should be worried more about why anyone is wasting money on this crap than about whether or not THE GUBMINT is tracking color laser printers.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-19 09:58pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Who the fuck personally buys color laser printers? B&W I can see, they've easily got one of the lowest per-page costs of any printer type, but color laser printers are usually a bit too expensive for most folks to consider purchasing.

They've gotten much more reasonable. I was in staples over the weekend, I saw one, big son of a bitch it was, for $400; I suspect new toner replacement is pretty expensive (4 colors not 1?), but they've made a lot of progress from the days when B&W laser printers were that much money.

Give it time. 10 years ago a laser printer was what, close to a grand? Now they're what, $200 or $300 depending on quality and such? I wholly expect that in 10 years or so color laser will be a very real option for many, like B&W laser is today.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-10-19 10:06pm

For a second I thought this meant that the government had super-advanced technology that logged the contents of each page you printed and sent to some databank in Washington, in which case I might have cared.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-10-19 10:16pm

HemlockGrey wrote:For a second I thought this meant that the government had super-advanced technology that logged the contents of each page you printed and sent to some databank in Washington, in which case I might have cared.

Nope, only what you type. However it's still a great excuse to pull out the tinfoil hat.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-20 12:04am

I'd like to see another source for that supposed keylogger beyond that particular

website.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-10-20 12:34am

InnocentBystander wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:For a second I thought this meant that the government had super-advanced technology that logged the contents of each page you printed and sent to some databank in Washington, in which case I might have cared.
Nope, only what you type. However it's still a great excuse to pull out the tinfoil hat.

When a site has a banner like this:

at the top, then you'll have to excuse me if I laugh at you for citing it.

Edit: Oh, and this one's even better! "OMG, t3h NE0C0NZ blew up the WTC! OMGWTFBBQ!!!11!1!"

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2005-10-20 12:41am

Stuff I print tend to either get turned in to a teacher, I keep it, or I trash it.

I too think this isn't a really intrusive invasion of privacy, nothing to really get worked up over.

BloodAngel · Post by **BloodAngel** » 2005-10-20 01:09am

Looking at the rest of the site, this "keylogger" guy seems like a crackpot. I don't think his story has much merit to it.

The printer thing...well, I don't use a color laserjet, hell, I don't even use a laserjet at all. In fact, I rarely even print anything, except for files that I need to look at simultaneously and/or for college/work. Out the window it goes.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-20 02:34am

Rogue 9 wrote:Ummmmmm... If IP addresses are displayed in e-mails, it's news to me. I just got done sending e-mail between my various accounts to check, and am not seeing it anywhere. Unless it's something that you normally can't access.

It will depend on how you send the mail, of course. Website-based mail like gmail and yahoo don't log your IP, but if your computer is your sendmail sever, well, you get the idea.

It's all just links in a chain anyway. My sendmail server can lead back directly to me, because I pay for it, something which is public knowledge when they do a WHOIS of my server's IP. Your results may vary, but it's still a fact that in order for communication to happen on the internet, you have to be able to communicate clearly between two points. Yes, there are ways to mask yourself, to hide behind other IPs, but that's the same as printing off of another printer.

End result, this whole printer hullabaloo is just people getting up in arms over nothing. They don't like it, they can join the people on the site Innocent linked to in wearing tinfoil hats. In the meantime, we do have other concerns to worry about.