Looking for a Good 4X Game

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2005-10-21 07:31pm

I was wondering if there are any good 4X (Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate; referers to space strategy games such as Master of Orion) game that anyone could recommend. I would preffer something with a good sense of scale, such as planetary populations in the (american) billions, and fleets of warships in the 1000s.

Currently, I'm playing Anacreon, which has the scale thing right, but it's a pain in the ass because you have to manually move resources from one planet to another as well as refuel fleets. Why the fuck must the Emperor himself tell a fleet to refuel when they need to, and personally tell transports to move raw material from the resource mining planet to the starship building planet, I'll never know. It gets worse when you take into account that the explanation for the turnbased system is that to ensure the Emperor's/Empress' longevity, they are only out of stasis for a few month's a year. "You woke me up so I could authorize the 10th and 17th fleets to refuel!? GUARDS! Execute this incompetent fool and find me someone with some iniciative!" At least it's free, the complaints are kind of moot when you didn't pay money for it.

I'm also playing MoO3, which is more fun when you get fan patches or modifications. However, it is still lacking in some things.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-10-21 08:22pm

Galactic Civilizations. I haven't played it except a little spin with the demo, but I read of it and it seems pretty good. The scale is single ship icons for star combat, but populations often reach the billions on every planet and ground invasions to take a planet, even with orbital assitance and WMDs often take billions themselves.

The only bad part is the fact that the AI gets a story-driven cheat at the beginning to know where all the yellow, life-supportive stars are to give them a leg up. And that it's hard on the normal difficulty, so playing Insane where the developers state the game starts actually cheating at that level lets it beat you like a redheaded stepchild.

And the research tree is a little dumb. It's too easy to win military or cultural or economic compared to research (most people never reach 10% without trying for it), and a minor quibble you need to research things like "Diplomacy", "Interplanetary Democracy", or "Alliances" in the Tech menu. I didn't know it took years of development to get those down pat...

The sequel I think complicates it from its root with custom ships and such. Simplicity is a plus in my book, as GalCiv and Rome:TW are the limits of my strategic capabilities.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-10-21 08:47pm

Ah, the good old days of 4x. Space Empires by Malfador is basically the name in 4x, you won't be disappointed with Space Empires IV. If you want you can wait for Space Empires V, which is in beta test. Both have huge communities, a loyal fanbase, good forums and hundreds of mods including Star Trek, Star Wars, and many original mods that will keep you going.

You will need mods to get your scale thing going, but basically the sense of scale is massive -- billions of population, thousands of ships, maximum ship limit going up to 65536. Of course the beginning is slow, and once you beat the stock game, you will need mods, which is why I think this game is a good choice because there's no fucking way you can run out of mods with the huge community. There is also one important aspect -- Play by E-mail, and you can kill human players, which is fundamentally different than killing computer players which are rather stupid, unless you get a mod. Basically, buy this game for replay value and neverending fun. Warning, don't buy it if you are a college student, or anybody who needs to write tests, and I've read that it's detrimental to your social life and marriage too lol, but the same can be said about any game if played uncontrollably.

Review.

Brian

HSRTG · Post by **HSRTG** » 2005-10-21 09:26pm

It's not free, but I've found Starships Unlimited to be very good. All updates are free (after purchase), and the tech support is competent and fast. The game is real-time, with pauses for important events, maneuvering ships, and diplomacy.

Basically, you start with a new planet, that has just built it's first intersteller craft. You equip the craft, and send it out to explore. Instead of colonizing the nearest system, instead the typical thing to do is create a freighter to simply mine it. Overall, the planets are rare (maybe 2-3 founded total/game/civilization), and the starships are few, with maybe a dozen/civilization. The game covers four ages, with more powerful ships/technology per age. You can fight in galaxies with up to IIRC 200 stars. Each star has a system that has a different cash value, with colonies (planets with less then 50 years of history), ships and spies costing cash.

The diplomacy system can be frustrating, but is generally fairly competent. The AI is fairly good, a challenge for a while, and when it becomes easy, you can give it advantages. The small numbers of ships might put you off, but each one is like a hero in a RPG. You will get attached to each one, and losing one WILL piss you off. At least it does me.

Only a few mods out for it, mostly cosmetic. The fanbase is small, the forums slow.

WARNING: this game is very addictive. You will spend hours and hours in a state similar to the "Just one more turn" syndrome experianced in Civ-esque games.

If you want a more comprehensive overview check out the forums.

EDIT: Corrected fact

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-21 10:00pm

It should be noted that Space Empires 5 is due out early next year.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-10-22 12:34am

Play SEIV. There's plenty of excellent mods, and PBEM is pretty fun. There's one mod out there for ST v SW v B5 v BSG v Harrington...

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-10-22 12:57am

Nephtys wrote:Play SEIV. There's plenty of excellent mods, and PBEM is pretty fun.

Hell yeah. I remember back in the day on ASVS me and Rob W. and Strowbridge got together and eradicated every other menace from the galaxy. Thems were fun.

Hey Hotfoot, when SEV comes out we gotta get a PBEM going.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-22 01:03am

Yeah, could be fun. I know that Innocent and some others have been interested in trying to get a SDN SE4 game going at some point or another.

Of course SOMEBODY *coughcoughInnocentcoughcough* fails to see the wisdom in PBW and demands direct IP lunacy :p

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-10-22 01:13am

Hotfoot wrote:Yeah, could be fun. I know that Innocent and some others have been interested in trying to get a SDN SE4 game going at some point or another.

Of course SOMEBODY *coughcoughInnocentcoughcough* fails to see the wisdom in PBW and demands direct IP lunacy :p

Say what now? I don't have the time for that, man!

PBW? Play By Web? Is that the web server that processes turns?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-22 01:16am

Hey, I have SE4, I have email, I have no life... I'd be up for some SE4 action.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-10-22 02:53am

Dalton wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:Yeah, could be fun. I know that Innocent and some others have been interested in trying to get a SDN SE4 game going at some point or another.

Of course SOMEBODY *coughcoughInnocentcoughcough* fails to see the wisdom in PBW and demands direct IP lunacy :p
Say what now? I don't have the time for that, man!

PBW? Play By Web? Is that the web server that processes turns?

Aye. It is. It's pretty easy to get a good game up with a turn a day... so. Who's in? And should we play a mod or no? I want in!

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-22 04:11am

Yeah, PBW is a webserver that does all the hard work, though I've never used it myself, the ease which it can be used is wonderful.

I'd like to set something up, but right now I think I've got too many obligations to get a game started, sadly.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-22 04:46am

I believe we're getting the SEV SDN group started...

remind NO KYNES this time

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-10-22 04:57am

Let's organize. So. I'm in, whatever mod we decide... for a new round.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2005-10-22 05:23am

What'd Kynes do?
Man, I forgot I had that game... maybe I should get in on this.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-22 05:29am

Kynes would commit to a game and then commit the unforgivable sin amoung gamer geeks. Have extended bouts of real life, holding up the PBM game for weeks!!!

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-10-22 06:42am

SE:IV PBW.... hmmm tempting. It would be easy to use PBW to set it up, in fact trivially easy. And, using PBW means there's no stupid waiting for other people. There's a set deadline, the program does all the turn execution for you, all you need to do is submit. I was playing eight games all at once, and spending five to ten minutes per turn. Eventually each game took thirty or more minutes of my time, and I had to drop out of the games.

If we do play, I suggest we spend some time hunting for a mod. I've, ahem, mastered the stock game, although I've been two years out of it so I don't know whether they've changed a lot of stuff. Basically the stock game is really stupid because there's only one or two competitive builds, and really only one. Missile weapons are a joke because point defense easily negates them, and there really is only one or two ways to research, ship hulls, phased polaron beams, depleted uranium cannons, minesweeping, and ECM/combat sensors being the most vital technologies that everybody will focus on. Well, the stock game is not stupid for newbies because there is some fun to be had, but once you figure out the cookie cutter build it gets boring.

Here, take a look at here, and you'll have the max/minner's dream. If you want to do a lot of research, take a look at here, there's a lot of info there. It might be a little dated information though, but I think it all applies if they haven't released a new patch.

I'm not sure if I should start again, it was fun but I can hardly afford to start another game with the real time commitments I have. When I play too I play to win, and stock is frankly bad for this because the new/casual player will be easily defeated by those who have had experience in competitive PBW. So if I'm in someone find a good mod, someone figure out how to use PBW, someone make a small universe, so on. Last time I was in it was Adamant Mod that was the most awe-inspiring, feature-full modification. It is here.

I'd be willing to set it all up but only if we have a small, committed group and 48 hour turns. In fact, since I'm worried about this taking over my life, it could also be 72 hour turns.

Brian

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-22 07:09am

I think I still have CS's mod from the games Dalton refered too.

although they didn't include my soylent green plant yet...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-10-22 12:39pm

How are the DU cannons the best weapons in the game?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-10-22 12:44pm

Uraniun235 wrote:How are the DU cannons the best weapons in the game?

They're a vital tech to focus on, especially early on. Nothing gives the research to damage benefit of DU cannons. By the time your enemy has anti-proton beams 1, you'll have maxed out DU cannons, PLUS combat sensors, ECM, stealth armor, and so on.

Phased Polarons follow right after DUC, ideally before anyone makes it to phased shields. Once phased shields become common, anti-proton beams rule the day, though they take longer to tech to a useful level than Phased Polaron.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2005-10-22 12:57pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Kynes would commit to a game and then commit the unforgivable sin amoung gamer geeks. Have extended bouts of real life, holding up the PBM game for weeks!!!

Welp, guess that disqualifies me too. I love SEIV (and I have it) but I always keep getting whacked by RL at least three or four extended intervals a year. Case in Point: Where was I in September?

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-10-22 12:57pm

I'd probably be up for it, although I don't have any experience playing against others, so I'll probably get owned. How are we going to decide which mod to use?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-22 01:56pm

you don't commit to a game knowingly a right before your term paper is due, and then hold up a game for a month because of said termpaper. And then join in the sucessor to the game you killed just before you have to move from a university to "Real World"

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-10-22 02:04pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I'd probably be up for it, although I don't have any experience playing against others, so I'll probably get owned. How are we going to decide which mod to use?

No you won't because hopefully we'll pick a mod which nobody has any experience playing, so everybody will have a level playing field. I also suggest a medium to large galaxy so everybody has room to expand.

If we use PBW, there won't be any problems because if you miss a turn the AI plays for you. (You can set the turns to autoexecute every 24, 48, 72 or more hours). Everybody has to miss a turn once in a while. The AI can seriously fuck up your turns though.

With 72 hour turns even the most burdened university student will be able to play, it shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes early on, 15 minutes middle game, and several months later it will take 20-30 minutes per turn.

Brian

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-10-22 02:15pm

Lesse. The Babylon 5 Mod is quite complex and very detailed, with each race getting it's set of very different technologies. No game breakers like PPBs in that one, until very, very late (Shadow+ equipment). It uses the 'Pseudo-Newtonian' movement scheme, and very very large homeworlds setup.

Or we could do STrek Invasion, which plays a lot more like standard SEIV, but with a more balanced research tree. So thus, it's actually worth persuing torpedoes, phasers, pulse phasers, etc in different branches for their different specializations.