Quake 4 and FEAR first impressions (spoilers)

[Stark]

Wait, you found Armacham repetative and boring?

I mean, yes, okay, the parts with offices look similar (gee, they're offices), but I have yet to find repeated arcitecture even once so far. Certainly nothing like the horrendous repetition found in Halo.

Not architecture boring, design boring. Walk, shoot. Walk walk walk, shoot walk. Nothing of significance happens except meeting Fatty McFat Fat the fucking moron. It's certainly not as bad as the fucking Library.

By the way, sentryguns fall quite easily to the assault rifle and the penetrator, if you know what you're doing, you won't even take any damage.

The sentry area isn't difficult: it's just where I was when I got jack of it and installed Q4. However, on hard at least, the guns take SHITLOADS of fire from the AR, and I ditched the penetrator for the ASP some time ago. It's easier just to use slow motion to run past and turn them off. I rarely get hit, but they DO hurt like the bejesus.

[Hotfoot]

Not architecture boring, design boring. Walk, shoot. Walk walk walk, shoot walk. Nothing of significance happens except meeting Fatty McFat Fat the fucking moron. It's certainly not as bad as the fucking Library.

I think you're either just glossing over the other things in the game or just very hard to please.

Let's not forget about (SPOILERS!)
-Aldus Bishop and the bomb squad
-Finding the forward team
-various vital clues spread around with critical plot information, slowly unravelling just how fucked up this is
-And, well, since you're not past the sentry guns yet, you're just on the other side of your next major objective, not to mention a whole new type of bad guy

Regardless, I don't see how the game is really overhyped. True, it's not any mind-bending puzzles, but I personally find the action to be a blast, to say nothing of the setting and the graphics. There's something I find about literally watching the smoke clear and observing the carnage of the last two minutes or so of gunfire.

The sentry area isn't difficult: it's just where I was when I got jack of it and installed Q4. However, on hard at least, the guns take SHITLOADS of fire from the AR, and I ditched the penetrator for the ASP some time ago. It's easier just to use slow motion to run past and turn them off. I rarely get hit, but they DO hurt like the bejesus.

Yeah, they do. By the way, I think that it's possible to change difficulty levels mid-game in the options, in case you're having too hard of a time.

[Stark]

Aaron, I agree with much of your post, but I'm far less forgiving. Teen-slasher movie shock-horror is NOT good enough. Silent Hill creeped me out on a PS1. Single-frame corpses in your vision, pools of blood and whatnot AREN'T scary. Even WORSE, it's all signposted by the 'teen slasher flick' music: nothing EVER happens without them letting you know well in advance. I agree however that some of it works: the first bit, and the pool of blood was good. However, it wasn't scary; just interesting and tense.

The 'everyone dies' thing is lame. It's stupid. You CAN, in fact, have tension with other characters around: you can't have a believable world with FEAR consisting of an old guy with a radio, a chick in leather, a tough guy and a new guy. THAT'S IT, PEOPLE - the whole organisation.

The guys who made FEAR think 'horror' or 'fear' means 'shock'. Doom3 was bad in this regard, but the darkness and constant attacks kept the tension levels unbearably high. In FEAR, you'll walk for ten minutes with NOTHING HAPPENING. They keep forgetting the 'fear' aspect and coming back to it. Ho hum, stupid tramp is looking through the window at me... oh no, Fettel is ranting at me... oh no, a person in front of me!!!!!!

[Stark]

I think you're either just glossing over the other things in the game or just very hard to please.

Let's not forget about (SPOILERS!)

It's funny that I'd forgotten all that stuff. I guess that's how lame the game is. I played the sequence in one sitting, the second item you mentioned I found disappointing and lame (apart from ZOMG THE ALMA SIGHTING) and the 'clues' thing was somehow weak - I could stand in a dark office surrounded by death listening to a tape or watching a film about satan or lungeaters, and because the game is so predictable I knew nothing would happen. So much of that section is empty, worthless twisty corridor for filler.

Yeah, they do. By the way, I think that it's possible to change difficulty levels mid-game in the options, in case you're having too hard of a time.

Having a hard time indeed.

[Arrow]

While the design of the office building isn't architecturally repeative (although I find it be unrealistic - lots of space for only a few offices - where the hell are the cube farms?!), shooting guys on stair wells, in elevators and in offices gets kinda stale. Mainly, the game has too many office levels. Running through the warehouse was cool, and I'm enjoying the levels that come after the office; they didn't/haven't worn themselves out yet. And that's the thing I love Doom 3, HL2 and Quake 4 - they don't keep you in the same place for along time; you feel like you're moving forward.

[Captain tycho]

PWN3D by sarcasm! Sorry, but you see I'm currently stuck in the super boring neverending Armacham levels.

Heh, I played through them again without any map skipping cheats, and they aren't that bad. Its rather fun rampaging through offices when you work in one all day....
One thing I REALLY wish this game had: AI teammates. Now that would be fucking nice to see.

[Arrow]

One thing I REALLY wish this game had: AI teammates. Now that would be fucking nice to see.

Thanks for reminding me: That's the other thing that disappoints me. FEAR has two other teammates, and I expected to work with them. Not have one disappear in the first ten minutes of the game and the other show up for thirty seconds at a time very five levels.

[Hotfoot]

While the design of the office building isn't architecturally repeative (although I find it be unrealistic - lots of space for only a few offices - where the hell are the cube farms?!),

Cube farms are there, though maybe not the huge ones you might expect. Two reasons for this can help explain it:
1. It's a secret project. Staff is kept to a minumum because they all require security clearance.
2. You're trying to find the head honchos, not muck around in the lesser areas.

shooting guys on stair wells, in elevators and in offices gets kinda stale. Mainly, the game has too many office levels. Running through the warehouse was cool, and I'm enjoying the levels that come after the office; they didn't/haven't worn themselves out yet. And that's the thing I love Doom 3, HL2 and Quake 4 - they don't keep you in the same place for along time; you feel like you're moving forward.

I'll admit, Armacham goes on for a long time, however, it does feel like they mixed it up some, what with the rooftop areas, the construction site, and the underground parts all mixed up in between.

Meanwhile, Doom 3? It's all pretty much the same black hallways and rooms. I suppose it keeps you moving forward to some degree, with it's lame-assed "ZOMG IMPS BEHIND HIDDEN DOORS" crap where enemies pop up in the lamest possible ways with no way to avoid it.

I can't really argue that there are areas in FEAR where there seems to be a fair bit of time between gunfights. On the other hand, it's also pretty easy to just blast past it and keep going from one fight to the next, with the exception of a few "find the key" areas.

On the other hand, FEAR is a game that relies heavily on player immersion. If you refuse to immerse yourself, you're missing out on part of the fun, I think. There's a certain nervous tension that's always on in my game, never knowing what's happening next or where it will come from.

And yeah, AI teammates would have been great. Maybe we'll see this in a mod?

[Stark]

But what's the explanation for the floormap not fitting in the rectangle of the Armacham building you see at the start? Each floor is 40% corridors and 15% inaccessible useless space. Standard FPS level design, that.

Immersion works if a game draws you in, and I think FEAR makes too make simple missteps in the tension department. It's odd you complain about hamfisted D3 tension, but not the laughable BOO! I'M A GIRL 'scares' of FEAR. Oh shit, the DOOR SLAMMED!

Actually, immersion works against it. In the endless lame corridors, I poke around everywhere, looking for clues/weapons/something cool. I've missed a few things, but if I just walked through fast as I could it wouldn't be so boring, but even LESS immersive.

[weemadando]

Not to mention the "Office Space" jokes that apparently destroy any horror factor.

[Hotfoot]

But what's the explanation for the floormap not fitting in the rectangle of the Armacham building you see at the start? Each floor is 40% corridors and 15% inaccessible useless space. Standard FPS level design, that.

Actually, each floor makes much more sense when you remove the barricaded areas and the emergency lockdown gates. Yes, they put you in a linear path, but at least there is some reason given.

Immersion works if a game draws you in, and I think FEAR makes too make simple missteps in the tension department. It's odd you complain about hamfisted D3 tension, but not the laughable BOO! I'M A GIRL 'scares' of FEAR. Oh shit, the DOOR SLAMMED!

Gee, one's hamfisted, the other doesn't perfectly grab you. I think it's clear WHY I'm making the criticisms I'm making. We both agree that Doom 3 was stupidly done in the tension/horror department, you say FEAR doesn't grab you, I say it grabs me. But if you really want to argue about it, let's compare, shall we?

Doom: Oh, look, a brand new weapon of amazing destruction, in the center of a room. Wow, what luck! That ominous laughter sure led me right to it! Onoes! It was a trap, just like every other powerup IN THE GAME! I picked it up and twelve doors opened in places there were no doors before, and evil demons from hell came spilling forth. Oh, look, it's pitch black, let's PUT AWAY OUR GUNS so we can see. OH SHIT IT'S A DEMON I NEED A BIG GUN!

OH SHIT I CAN'T SEE THE DEMON!!

Yeah. Real scary.

FEAR: Huh, that's weird, saw something in the shadows, looked like it was moving. Fuck, what was that sound? Someone behind me? AHH! CREEPY GIRL WITH THE FIRE AND THE BLOOD!! Okay, that's over. Shit, Troopers, and I'm in a bad position, they can flank me. Gotta think. Toss down a prox on my flank, cover the other side with a gun, or charge in? Shit! Grenade at my feet! RUN! BAM BAM BAM! Okay, it's over, heart's still pumping and...OH GOD WHAT THE HELL IS ALL THIS BLOOD? Who's screaming? Why is ther-FUCKING HELL BONES!!

Never once in FEAR has there been an ambush from nowhere, you always have a chance (though you can blow it by not checking corners and leaving your flashlight on). The tension in the combat comes from not just having to outgun your foes, but having to outsmart them. You rarely have to worry about ammo (unless you're constantly changing guns, which is ill-advised), whereas half the tension in DOOM is that you carry craptastic ammo for everything, and the other half comes from not having enough health because of the unavoidable ambushes and auto-hit attacks.

Granted, if Alma and Fettel don't disturb you, then you're losing out on a good portion of the game. However, I think they're genuinely creepy and disturbing. Alma especially, really. Don't know what it is.

Actually, immersion works against it. In the endless lame corridors, I poke around everywhere, looking for clues/weapons/something cool. I've missed a few things, but if I just walked through fast as I could it wouldn't be so boring, but even LESS immersive.

It's not that hard to pick up most everything and make good time, at least as far as I can see, but then, I've cut my teeth on Deus Ex and Thief, which have more secrets in them than Doom or Fear combined.

I suppose, however, that if the pacing isn't to your liking, there's not much that can be said about that.

[weemadando]

I actually thought that the horror in Doom3 was well done.

Call it ham-fisted if you want, but the style of the game was perfectly suited to the devices used. Just because it doesn't fit with what you think the game should have been, doesn't make it the wrong choice.

The horror in FEAR (both the demo and the first hour of the game which I've played) has struck me as being at odds with the game setting and style. Whenever I'm spooked by something, I'm less concerned with the fact that the walls were bleeding or whatever, and more concerned with the fact I just wasted a few rounds firing at shadows.

With Doom3, I was FUCKING SCARED each time the world warped a little, or I found a "flesh room", or saw things in teh mirror that weren't there. If I wasted ammo, it wasn't a primary concern - finding myself a nice safe, bright hidey hole to recover in was.

[Hotfoot]

I actually thought that the horror in Doom3 was well done.

Call it ham-fisted if you want, but the style of the game was perfectly suited to the devices used. Just because it doesn't fit with what you think the game should have been, doesn't make it the wrong choice.

Honestly, I'm going to have to seriously disagree. Doom had me interested up until they decided to take me out of the immersion. How'd this happen? One major flaw was the disintigrating bodies. Seriously, I whack a dead body with a flashlight and it disappears like I hit it with a phaser at max power? That's fucked up. Yes, bodies and bulletholes eventually disappear in FEAR as well, but it's not immediately after, and you can adjust the settings.

Another was the lame-assed traps you could see from a mile away and have no way of avoiding. Seriously, when I'm on my first run through an area, and I can tell WELL IN ADVANCE that an area is a trap, it's not effective.

Then there's the lighting. Yes, dark is disturbing. However, nothing but pitch black for miles on end just gets boring. They really went overboard with the whole "It's dark" stuff, which was even worse considering the lame-assed flashlight setup. Is it any wonder that the VERY FIRST MODS sought to correct this? Complain all you will about games with limited charge flashlights, I'll take them over the Doom 3 flashlight any day of the week.

I will admit that Doom 3 didn't miss all the marks, there are a few parts that actually got to me. However, by and large, FEAR hits a lot more. I suppose a lot of it could be due to style preferences, but I'm having a very difficult time trying to wrap my head around how Doom is anywhere near as frightening as Fear.

The horror in FEAR (both the demo and the first hour of the game which I've played) has struck me as being at odds with the game setting and style. Whenever I'm spooked by something, I'm less concerned with the fact that the walls were bleeding or whatever, and more concerned with the fact I just wasted a few rounds firing at shadows.

I don't get it, why would it be at odds?

Moreover, since ammo is MUCH less of a concern in FEAR, why are you worried about losing a few shots here and there?

With Doom3, I was FUCKING SCARED each time the world warped a little, or I found a "flesh room", or saw things in teh mirror that weren't there. If I wasted ammo, it wasn't a primary concern - finding myself a nice safe, bright hidey hole to recover in was.

Just the opposite. Since ammo is so scarce in Doom, I constantly found myself worrying about it more than any real "horror" aspects.

[Stark]

Actually, each floor makes much more sense when you remove the barricaded areas and the emergency lockdown gates. Yes, they put you in a linear path, but at least there is some reason given.

The lack of a map helps the poor designers, but my point is that the floorspace is used in a retarded way. This is not a FEAR specific problem, however.

Gee, one's hamfisted, the other doesn't perfectly grab you. I think it's clear WHY I'm making the criticisms I'm making. We both agree that Doom 3 was stupidly done in the tension/horror department, you say FEAR doesn't grab you, I say it grabs me. But if you really want to argue about it, let's compare, shall we?

I find your description of the tension in FEAR revealing. I agree with many of your first points: the first level was full of nice, tension-creating moments. However, the rest of the game with it's harsh demarcation between 'spooky noises, Fettel prattle and being stalked by a girl' and the standard shooty bits. To be blunt, the shooter sections required NOTHING like the level of tactical thinking you describe, as backing around a corner and slow-mo sniping is all you need. Filling office blocks with 'spooky noise' soundpoints isn't quite enough to 'draw me in'.

However, it doesn't have 8-bit pattern bosses.

Granted, if Alma and Fettel don't disturb you, then you're losing out on a good portion of the game. However, I think they're genuinely creepy and disturbing. Alma especially, really. Don't know what it is.

The only thing Alma does that creeps me out is stand silently in plain sight staring at you behind some sort of impregnable barrier. Fettel really comes across like a fucking moron, not some kind of military genius.

It's not that hard to pick up most everything and make good time, at least as far as I can see, but then, I've cut my teeth on Deus Ex and Thief, which have more secrets in them than Doom or Fear combined.

I suppose, however, that if the pacing isn't to your liking, there's not much that can be said about that.

You've missed the point. I'm seriously uninterested in the story: my point is the 'boring' parts are made MORE boring by searching for the plot. I'm not confused by the plot, I'm not in the dark about what's going on (indeed, from the second the intro plays it's jammed down your throat). Again, the Armacham area took me longer than perhaps others, because I checked EVERYWHERE, trying to get excited about the plot, trying to get scared, trying to not find the whole thing lame.

Personally, I don't find either FEAR or D3 'scary'. D3 is 'tense', due to the semi-constant shock stuff and the low light (even with flash mods). FEAR has less effective shock stuff, less frequently, with huge streches of nothing 'fear' related. However, the start of FEAR was more effective, so perhaps my derison for the game has made me less susceptible.

[Hotfoot]

I find your description of the tension in FEAR revealing. I agree with many of your first points: the first level was full of nice, tension-creating moments. However, the rest of the game with it's harsh demarcation between 'spooky noises, Fettel prattle and being stalked by a girl' and the standard shooty bits. To be blunt, the shooter sections required NOTHING like the level of tactical thinking you describe, as backing around a corner and slow-mo sniping is all you need. Filling office blocks with 'spooky noise' soundpoints isn't quite enough to 'draw me in'.

However, it doesn't have 8-bit pattern bosses.

Concerning the gunfights, I've had several instances where sitting in a corner doesn't always work. The AI in my game use grenades pretty ruthlessly, and will advance if you don't get flushed out. Additionally, at some points, you simply can't avoid getting flanked, as the level design is not always completely linear.

For several of the smaller engagements, yes, sniping from cover with slo-mo will work just fine, but for larger and prolonged engagements, you have to come up with a plan, usually on the fly, and that is where prox grenades and remote bombs truly shine.

The only thing Alma does that creeps me out is stand silently in plain sight staring at you behind some sort of impregnable barrier. Fettel really comes across like a fucking moron, not some kind of military genius.

I've never described Fettel as a genius, just creepy. A guy who goes around eating people's flesh with glee and talking about the end times is just a touch disturbing.

You've missed the point. I'm seriously uninterested in the story: my point is the 'boring' parts are made MORE boring by searching for the plot. I'm not confused by the plot, I'm not in the dark about what's going on (indeed, from the second the intro plays it's jammed down your throat). Again, the Armacham area took me longer than perhaps others, because I checked EVERYWHERE, trying to get excited about the plot, trying to get scared, trying to not find the whole thing lame.

*shrugs* I'm just going to have to say that's not what I got out of it. Honestly, I think the story is pretty engaging, much in the same way Half-Life 2 was (though in a slightly different way).

Personally, I don't find either FEAR or D3 'scary'. D3 is 'tense', due to the semi-constant shock stuff and the low light (even with flash mods). FEAR has less effective shock stuff, less frequently, with huge streches of nothing 'fear' related. However, the start of FEAR was more effective, so perhaps my derison for the game has made me less susceptible.

It's entirely possible. Once you're taken out of the immersion, it's hard to get back in, and if the story didn't grab you for whatever reason, well, whatcha gonna do?

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Seems I'm the only one who enjoyed both FEAR and Doom 3.

FEAR scares you in a more psychological way that Doom 3, because you’re being stalked by these strange apparitions you know very little about. However it that means it relies heavily on the player immersing themselves in the game world because the scary sections themselves are not actually dangerous very often.

Stark, I think your case the fact that you found the first section effective but lost that feeling in the later ones is because after playing that part you probably came here to write a post about what you thought about the game. To compare, imagine watching a scary movie and then half way through stopped to post your thoughts on it - you would lose any tension, urgency and fear that the movie had built up in you up to that point. Games are usually better at immersion that movies, because you are protagonist - but being in the right frame of mind and environment is still a big factor in getting the full experience the game can offer.

Obviously games are too long to be done in one sitting normally, but in between play sessions I have found it is best to go and do something totally unrelated and try to not think about the game - that way when I come back to it I will be as close to exactly where I left off in my mind as I can be. I do this for any game that is supposed to have an engaging story; it’s just become a habit because that way I get more out of it.

Also, as Hotfoot says - if the plot doesn't interest you, you’re likely to enjoy it about as much as watching a movie whose plot doesn't interest you.

[Arrow]

Cube farms are there, though maybe not the huge ones you might expect. Two reasons for this can help explain it:
1. It's a secret project. Staff is kept to a minumum because they all require security clearance.
2. You're trying to find the head honchos, not muck around in the lesser areas.

Ok, now I have to disagree with this, since I work for a DoD contractor and have been the offices of several other contractors and Uncle Sam's. Nothing in reality looks remotely like the Armacham building - the closest thing I can think of was the science building at my college. Also, its been my experience that pretty much everyone in the industry has a secret clearance of some sort, so #1 goes out the window. Not to mention that any actual classified work usually goes on in SCIF or some other enclosed space with serious access controls (and no windows!), something which I didn't see in the Armacham building, which really throws #1 out the window.

Explaination #2 I can buy, but I find it really odd to see individual offices, group offices, cubes, lobbies and labs mixed up in those arrangements. It doesn't match what I've seen in real life. Monolith should had hired an architect to design the Armacham offices, because I've seen several office buildings that had great layouts for an FPS, with each floor looking quite different the others (my last employer's office building comes to mind).

I'll admit, Armacham goes on for a long time, however, it does feel like they mixed it up some, what with the rooftop areas, the construction site, and the underground parts all mixed up in between.

I got bored of the roof tops after the third roof top gun fight. Same thing on the fourth construction site...

Meanwhile, Doom 3? It's all pretty much the same black hallways and rooms. I suppose it keeps you moving forward to some degree, with it's lame-assed "ZOMG IMPS BEHIND HIDDEN DOORS" crap where enemies pop up in the lamest possible ways with no way to avoid it.

The lay out of each level was quite different in D3 (and they even had video clips telling you the purpose of each level, which was cool). The scenery in FEAR repeats itself far too often.

I can't really argue that there are areas in FEAR where there seems to be a fair bit of time between gunfights. On the other hand, it's also pretty easy to just blast past it and keep going from one fight to the next, with the exception of a few "find the key" areas.

On the other hand, FEAR is a game that relies heavily on player immersion. If you refuse to immerse yourself, you're missing out on part of the fun, I think. There's a certain nervous tension that's always on in my game, never knowing what's happening next or where it will come from.

Its not that I refuse to immerse myself, its that the game's pacing and level design keep jarring me out of the immersion. Only now, with four levels left to go, am I starting to get to the meat of the plot. The plot had an awesome potiential for some mind blowing plot twists, but it seems to have been wasted.

And yeah, AI teammates would have been great. Maybe we'll see this in a mod?

I hope we do, otherwise my FEAR DVD will end up collecting a lot of dust.

[Hotfoot]

Ok, now I have to disagree with this, since I work for a DoD contractor and have been the offices of several other contractors and Uncle Sam's. Nothing in reality looks remotely like the Armacham building - the closest thing I can think of was the science building at my college. Also, its been my experience that pretty much everyone in the industry has a secret clearance of some sort, so #1 goes out the window. Not to mention that any actual classified work usually goes on in SCIF or some other enclosed space with serious access controls (and no windows!), something which I didn't see in the Armacham building, which really throws #1 out the window.

No, because unless you're telling me you work for a company that does projects as hideously secret as the one Armacham does, the argument still stands. This isn't like a company that's working on a new tank, it's a company that's working on a legion of cloned super-soldiers and a psychic commander (plus the little girl) with ZERO public knowledge of the subject. Combination of the thing needing to stay a secret and having people who know what they're doing would naturally keep numbers down.

Explaination #2 I can buy, but I find it really odd to see individual offices, group offices, cubes, lobbies and labs mixed up in those arrangements. It doesn't match what I've seen in real life. Monolith should had hired an architect to design the Armacham offices, because I've seen several office buildings that had great layouts for an FPS, with each floor looking quite different the others (my last employer's office building comes to mind).

Fair enough. I agree that more FPS designers should hire architects for level design, as they can make for spectacular levels (Rainbow Six series comes to mind).

The lay out of each level was quite different in D3 (and they even had video clips telling you the purpose of each level, which was cool). The scenery in FEAR repeats itself far too often.

Meh, the video clips seemed a lot like worthless fluff on my end. "Oh, look, here's where we collect plasma, so here's a level with a bunch of plasma ammo."

Aside from the occasional new device, it's pretty much the same steel structures for the first several levels, followed by the same steel structures under a more reddish light, and so on. I mean, it makes sense in that it's all the same facility, but it really doesn't add anything. Meanwhile, at the very least, you can tell different building materials were used in different areas of Fear. The only real variation in Doom is when you take a brief trip outside to the surface of Mars.

I suppose my other big problem with Doom 3 was the combat. I have grown to appreciate AI with a kick to it, that does more than just attack you. The AI in Doom 3 (and what I'm hearing, Quake 4), seems pretty braindead, meaning all you have to do is shoot it enough times and you win. More ammo around the corner. I can handle SOME of the AI in games being braindead. Zombies and Imps are forgivable. Posessed Marines, however, should have been the early-on challenge. Instead what I got was Imps with guns. It's getting to the point in FPS games where you can't just have braindead AI in the singleplayer. Even in multiplayer games, good quality bots are in pretty high demand for when people can't/don't want to play online.

Also, since I mentioned Quake 4, I have to say, I read the Gamespy review, and from what it says, it looks like I'll be passing on Q4 for some time to come. I may change my mind if they come out with a killer demo, but otherwise, it just doesn't look interesting to me.

[Mr Bean]

The lay out of each level was quite different in D3 (and they even had video clips telling you the purpose of each level, which was cool). The scenery in FEAR repeats itself far too often.

Meh, the video clips seemed a lot like worthless fluff on my end. "Oh, look, here's where we collect plasma, so here's a level with a bunch of plasma ammo."

No I disagree, the video clips, like the old system shock logs went a LONG way in making me think that were there is now Imp infested factory of death, used to be a good old public works building with all sorts of useful humans doing useful things.

Not since System Shock 2 has the log file trick been done so well.

Except Doom never went all the way and started smattering odd sounds into the logs or end log file is the sound of an imp attacking. Finding a quiet corner to read the logs was always a concern of mine and I went out of my way to scoure every inch of my chosen space to make sure there were no nasty portals or shit hidden anywhere before I tabbed over to the logs.

[Hotfoot]

No I disagree, the video clips, like the old system shock logs went a LONG way in making me think that were there is now Imp infested factory of death, used to be a good old public works building with all sorts of useful humans doing useful things.

Not since System Shock 2 has the log file trick been done so well.

It all seemed like a lame cover to me, given the situation of a gate being opened to hell. Like, "ooh, here's what we're telling everyone goes on here, even our own people, so they don't question the true sinister nature of our project. Bwahahahaha!"

Not saying all the logs are bad, just didn't care much for most of the propeganda videos. The audio and text logs were good, and I will give them credit for that.

Except Doom never went all the way and started smattering odd sounds into the logs or end log file is the sound of an imp attacking. Finding a quiet corner to read the logs was always a concern of mine and I went out of my way to scoure every inch of my chosen space to make sure there were no nasty portals or shit hidden anywhere before I tabbed over to the logs.

None of which matters because the game pauses when you bring up the PDA, or at least that's how I remember it. Given the lame event-triggered nature of traps, so long as you cleared the area of enemies, if you stood still, nothing ever happened to you. In fact, so long as you avoided unecessary powerups, you'd walk through the game largely unscathed by their lame-assed traps.

[Arrow]

No, because unless you're telling me you work for a company that does projects as hideously secret as the one Armacham does, the argument still stands. This isn't like a company that's working on a new tank, it's a company that's working on a legion of cloned super-soldiers and a psychic commander (plus the little girl) with ZERO public knowledge of the subject. Combination of the thing needing to stay a secret and having people who know what they're doing would naturally keep numbers down.

While Armacham may only have few people with need-to-know directly involved at the top project, you still needs lots and lots of worker to make the clones, analyize data and do other tasks (an SCI project, where most people don't jack-shit about the big picture). So I should at least be seeing one or two floors with lots and lots of workstations for techs to go over data for something. It should look like and office, not some old school shooter with office furnture instead of alien barrels.

EDIT: Also, you're assuming that Armacham is only working the clones. If its a big a contractor as hinted at, it will be working on many projects, not all of which are classified. I want my cube farms and true office design, dammit! I thought that was I was getting when I read the previews.

/EDIT

I suppose my other big problem with Doom 3 was the combat. I have grown to appreciate AI with a kick to it, that does more than just attack you. The AI in Doom 3 (and what I'm hearing, Quake 4), seems pretty braindead, meaning all you have to do is shoot it enough times and you win. More ammo around the corner. I can handle SOME of the AI in games being braindead. Zombies and Imps are forgivable. Posessed Marines, however, should have been the early-on challenge. Instead what I got was Imps with guns. It's getting to the point in FPS games where you can't just have braindead AI in the singleplayer. Even in multiplayer games, good quality bots are in pretty high demand for when people can't/don't want to play online.

In Quake 4, only a few of the enemies do that, basically your baseline Strogg. The more advanced ones use cover, or teleport behind you, or use shields. The won't pass the Turing Test, but they aren't Doom 3 dumb either.

[Hotfoot]

While Armacham may only have few people with need-to-know directly involved at the top project, you still needs lots and lots of worker to make the clones, analyize data and do other tasks (an SCI project, where most people don't jack-shit about the big picture). So I should at least be seeing one or two floors with lots and lots of workstations for techs to go over data for something. It should look like and office, not some old school shooter with office furnture instead of alien barrels.

EDIT: Also, you're assuming that Armacham is only working the clones. If its a big a contractor as hinted at, it will be working on many projects, not all of which are classified. I want my cube farms and true office design, dammit! I thought that was I was getting when I read the previews.

/EDIT

Fair enough. Like I said earlier, it didn't bother me much, but hey. It would have been freaking awesome to fight in a slowly disintigrating cube farm, with those weak-assed walls getting chewed up by gunfire. In fact, they should have made more objects destructable. The bullethole effects look nice as hell and give a good illusion of depth, but actual depth would have been sweeter.

In Quake 4, only a few of the enemies do that, basically your baseline Strogg. The more advanced ones use cover, or teleport behind you, or use shields. The won't pass the Turing Test, but they aren't Doom 3 dumb either.

Well, that's a plus I suppose. Still, I'm going to want a demo to try it out for myself before passing final judgement on it.

[Pablo Sanchez]

r9600 is a lower end gfx card these days, and it's shader preformance sucks and shader preformance makes a hell of a difference on newer games.

Damnit, you're right. It's just that it feels like yesterday I bought the fucker. Well, I know what Pablo is getting for Christmas now.

[Ace Pace]

I'll be getting this, I don't mind repeating offices. Just one question, is the particle gun as good as it is in the demo?

[Arrow]

Just one question, is the particle gun as good as it is in the demo?

Yes. Its probably my favorite weapon in the game, with the shot gun and assualt rifle right behind it.