Plasma Weapons, Are they good?

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-01 04:33pm

Neko_Oni wrote:Okay I read something scary on the US military site, some investigation into the use of energy weapon on the battlefield. It had a quote that went roughly "for a battlefield particle weapon not only would the direct effects be devastating, but the cyclotronic radiation could kill exposed personnel within 10m of the beam".

Ahhh Rad cannon... Decompose elements inj its path or turn them into radioactive sources... Life DOES suck for the infantryman now, eh?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2002-12-01 04:35pm

Neko_Oni wrote:Okay I read something scary on the US military site, some investigation into the use of energy weapon on the battlefield. It had a quote that went roughly "for a battlefield particle weapon not only would the direct effects be devastating, but the cyclotronic radiation could kill exposed personnel within 10m of the beam".

Technobabble alert!!!!!!

That radiation would only occur upon impact, no? Otherwise, nobody could be near the thing went it shoots...

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-01 04:37pm

Warspite wrote:
Neko_Oni wrote:Okay I read something scary on the US military site, some investigation into the use of energy weapon on the battlefield. It had a quote that went roughly "for a battlefield particle weapon not only would the direct effects be devastating, but the cyclotronic radiation could kill exposed personnel within 10m of the beam".
Technobabble alert!!!!!!

That radiation would only occur upon impact, no? Otherwise, nobody could be near the thing went it shoots...

It's shielded, I guess. And the people operating it are wearing protective gear too, I would hope.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2002-12-01 04:54pm

Ahhhh! But can it stand a nice dosage of HE's????

Why are they pursuing a more risky technology? Railguns are perfectly suitable to battlefields, and less radioactive.
Also, could the fielding of these kind of weapons be similar to using tactical nuclear weapons?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-01 04:57pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Then we'd just ahve to retaliate by mass driving nuclear warheads back to the moon. Or mass driving a commando pod up there to kick righteous ass.

This sounds more and more like a game each time I think about it...

Angel Devoid.

And tossing warheads back and forth isn't exactly a good future.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-01 05:41pm

You can see the same kind of idea in Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" as well... it truly sucks when an enemy holds the orbital high ground.

And Warspite, the answer would be "no:" a radiation weapon like that will interact with (and irradiate) any air between it and the target as well. Poor Bloody Infantry, sucks to be them....

Which reminds me, would you see that sort of radiation out of a plasma weapon?

Neko_Oni · Post by **Neko_Oni** » 2002-12-01 05:46pm

I expect you wouldn't get that kind of radiation from a plasma weapon, since the plasma is moving at the same speeds. I think you'd just get normal thermal radiation.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-01 06:14pm

even using tritium to make your bolt/beam?

Neko_Oni · Post by **Neko_Oni** » 2002-12-01 06:57pm

Tritium? Radioactive hydrogen right? Well it would give off a little radiation, if you could hit the target with a beam of plasma moving so fast it caused fusion yeah that'd make a hell of a lot of radiation.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 07:06pm

Um, if I recall correctly, a small amount of plasma in Earth's atmosphere would ignite the entire planet's surface.

You guys are talking about PSEUDO-plasma (or whatever it's called), not REAL plasma, yes?

Neko_Oni · Post by **Neko_Oni** » 2002-12-01 07:11pm

Why would it ignite the entire planets surface? If we take plasma from the sun's surface it's only 6000K. Sure that's pretty damn hot, but all it would do in the atmosphere is dump its heat into the surrounding air. If plasma could ignite the Earth's whole atmosphere I doubt scientists would be messing around with various forms of fusion reactors.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 07:36pm

Neko_Oni wrote:Why would it ignite the entire planets surface? If we take plasma from the sun's surface it's only 6000K. Sure that's pretty damn hot, but all it would do in the atmosphere is dump its heat into the surrounding air. If plasma could ignite the Earth's whole atmosphere I doubt scientists would be messing around with various forms of fusion reactors.

I'm sure I heard something about plasma being 10 million degrees C or something, somewhere.

About the dumping its heat into the surrounding air: That's what ignites the surface.

About fusion reactors: How's plasma involved in the fusion process?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2002-12-01 07:46pm

Shinova wrote:You guys are talking about PSEUDO-plasma (or whatever it's called), not REAL plasma, yes?

I don't know, what kind of plasma is used in sci-fi? Plasma is plasma, I guess, what's pseudo-plasma?

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 07:54pm

Warspite wrote:
Shinova wrote:You guys are talking about PSEUDO-plasma (or whatever it's called), not REAL plasma, yes?
I don't know, what kind of plasma is used in sci-fi? Plasma is plasma, I guess, what's pseudo-plasma?

Real plasma as in ten million degrees centigrade, stuff that's hotter than the sun plasma.

I doubt so-called "plasma weapons" in sci-fi are that kind of plasma. Otherwise, stormtrooper rifles would be Deathstars all on their own

Hence the term pseudo-plasma.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-01 07:55pm

Shinova wrote:
Warspite wrote:
Shinova wrote:You guys are talking about PSEUDO-plasma (or whatever it's called), not REAL plasma, yes?
I don't know, what kind of plasma is used in sci-fi? Plasma is plasma, I guess, what's pseudo-plasma?

Real plasma as in ten million degrees centigrade, stuff that's hotter than the sun plasma.

I doubt so-called "plasma weapons" in sci-fi are that kind of plasma. Otherwise, stormtrooper rifles would be Deathstars all on their own

Hence the term pseudo-plasma.

Not all plasma has to be that hot you know? At keast so I learned in school. There can be a much cooler plasma.

And even if it is ten million degrees it wouldn't come close to death star effects.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-12-01 07:56pm

Shinova wrote:
Neko_Oni wrote:Why would it ignite the entire planets surface? If we take plasma from the sun's surface it's only 6000K. Sure that's pretty damn hot, but all it would do in the atmosphere is dump its heat into the surrounding air. If plasma could ignite the Earth's whole atmosphere I doubt scientists would be messing around with various forms of fusion reactors.
I'm sure I heard something about plasma being 10 million degrees C or something, somewhere.

About the dumping its heat into the surrounding air: That's what ignites the surface.

About fusion reactors: How's plasma involved in the fusion process?

Plasma: essentially, ionized gas. You can have a cold plasma, although if it's too cold the electrons will fall back into orbit arund their respective atoms and it will cease to be a plasma. (This is assuming a net neutral charge)

There are several natural processes on Earth which generate plasma, the most obvious being lightning, with a temperature of around 25,000 - 30,000 K. It is in no way dangerous, except for being really hot like your Avatar.

Fusion: because of the immense temperatures and pressures needed to initiate fusion (and the fact that if the electrons in atoms are getting in your way, you have no hope of colliding nuclei), any material in which fusion is taking place will be a plasma. Again, it is not so much the state of the material which is dangerous so much as it's temperature: Fusion only takes place at temperatures in excess of 30,000,000 K.

This is the energy required to overcome the repulsion between nuclei and bring them close enough to join.

Hope that helps.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2002-12-01 08:11pm

Shinova wrote: Real plasma as in ten million degrees centigrade, stuff that's hotter than the sun plasma.

I doubt so-called "plasma weapons" in sci-fi are that kind of plasma. Otherwise, stormtrooper rifles would be Deathstars all on their own

Hence the term pseudo-plasma.

Like Stormbringer and Data_Link said, there can be cooler plasma... Think of plasma lamps... (oooohhhh, groovy, man!

)... You can touch them and play around without getting your hand melted away.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 08:18pm

Warspite wrote:
Shinova wrote: Real plasma as in ten million degrees centigrade, stuff that's hotter than the sun plasma.

I doubt so-called "plasma weapons" in sci-fi are that kind of plasma. Otherwise, stormtrooper rifles would be Deathstars all on their own

Hence the term pseudo-plasma.
Like Stormbringer and Data_Link said, there can be cooler plasma... Think of plasma lamps... (oooohhhh, groovy, man! )... You can touch them and play around without getting your hand melted away.

Course, we were talking about the HOT plasma

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-12-01 08:25pm

Shinova wrote:
Warspite wrote:Hence the term pseudo-plasma.
Like Stormbringer and Data_Link said, there can be cooler plasma... Think of plasma lamps... (oooohhhh, groovy, man! )... You can touch them and play around without getting your hand melted away.

Course, we were talking about the HOT plasma

[/quote]

Yeah, but only the type that doesn't melt your hand (although it feels like it)

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-01 08:38pm

data_link wrote:
Course, we were talking about the HOT plasma

Iget the dtrange feeling fluorescent lamps contain cold plasmas... is that correct?

Yeah, but only the type that doesn't melt your hand (although it feels like it)

Yes, hot plasmas would hurt.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 08:41pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:
data_link wrote:
Course, we were talking about the HOT plasma
Iget the dtrange feeling fluorescent lamps contain cold plasmas... is that correct?

Yeah, but only the type that doesn't melt your hand (although it feels like it)
Yes, hot plasmas would hurt.

I did hear once that the filament inside a lightbulb is actually several times hotter than the sun itself when activated.

About fluorescent lamps: Those are actually gases inside the bulbs. They "ignite", I think, everytime electricity runs through them. This happens about 500 times per second.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-01 08:44pm

Probably not. Lightbulb filaments are made of tungsten filament, and even if exposed to melting-point temperatures (which can't be because they don't discorporate) It would still be less than 6000K, the surface of the sun, and nowhere near the 14 million K in the Sun's core.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 08:51pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Probably not. Lightbulb filaments are made of tungsten filament, and even if exposed to melting-point temperatures (which can't be because they don't discorporate) It would still be less than 6000K, the surface of the sun, and nowhere near the 14 million K in the Sun's core.

Does discorporate = disintegrate?

Also take into account that the lightbulb's interior is vacuum.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-01 08:54pm

Shinova wrote:
Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Probably not. Lightbulb filaments are made of tungsten filament, and even if exposed to melting-point temperatures (which can't be because they don't discorporate) It would still be less than 6000K, the surface of the sun, and nowhere near the 14 million K in the Sun's core.

Does discorporate = disintegrate?

Also take into account that the lightbulb's interior is vacuum.

Yes, discorporate does translate into disintegrate.

Vacuum means nothing in this context (It's not a freezing vacuum, like space). Heat is transmitted via radiation, conduction and convection. Since a vacuum removes conduction and convection, heat can only be radiated. WHich would make the thing even hotter than expected because the assumption is that it is in a gaseous environment (which cannot be done because the ambient oxygen with burn with the tungsten filament)

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-01 08:58pm

Ehem, forget everything I said. Just found some stuff stating what everyone's been saying.

*Jumps off a cliff*