If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-10-27 11:51am

We live in a twisted world, where right is wrong and wrong reigns supreme. It is a chilling fact that most of the world's leaders believe in nonsensical fairytales about the nature of reality. They believe in Gods that do not exist, and religions that could not possibly be true. We are driven to war after war, violence on top of violence to appease madmen who believe in gory mythologies.
These men are called Christians, Muslims and Jews.

Osama bin Laden is insane. He believes God whispered in the ear of Mohammed 1,400 years ago about how he should conquer Arabia. Mohammed was a pure charlatan -- and a good one at that. He makes present religious frauds like Pat Robertson look like amateurs.

He said God told him to have sex with as many of the women he met as possible. I'm sorry, I meant to say "take them as wives." God told him to kill all other tribes that stood in his way or that would not placate him with assurances of loyalty or bribes. God told him, conveniently, that everyone should follow him and never question a word he said.

He sold this bag of goods to the blithering idiots who lived in the Arabian Peninsula at the time. If that weren't shockingly stupid enough, over a billion people continue to believe the convenient lies that Mohammed told all that time ago -- to this very day.

We live in a world full of insane people. Sanity is an island battered in an ocean of frothing delusion. The people who believe in science are the minority. The people who believe in bloody fairytales are the overwhelming majority.

George W. Bush is the most powerful man alive. He is a class A imbecile. He is far less intelligent than the average Christian. But like most of the others, he believes Jesus died for his sins. That idea is so perverse and devoid of logic it should shock the conscience. Instead, it gets him elected, and earns him the reverence of a great percentage of America. America! The most advanced country in the world -- run by a bunch of villagers who still believe Santa Claus is going to save them.

There is no damn Easter Bunny. There is no Jesus waiting to return. Moses never even existed. These were all convenient lies from the men of those times to gain power. Their actions were rational -- they wanted to deceive their brethren so that they could amass power. I get their motivations. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand our motivations, thousands of years later, still following the conmen of yesteryear into our gory, bloody, violent end.

Jesus is said to have said on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Because Jesus was insane and the God he thought would rescue him did not exist. And he died on that cross like a fool. He fancied himself the son of God and he could barely convince twelve men to follow him at a time when the world was full of superstition.

Excellent marketing by some of his followers would later rescue his botched effort. How many people saw his miracles? One? Twelve? Eighty? Why didn't he show the whole world? Not because this is some giant pop quiz by God to test us -- but because he did not perform any miracles!

Even his apostles can't agree on what miracles he supposedly carried out or when he carried them out. Or whether he returned after death or he didn't. Whether they saw him in person or just as a vision. Rational human beings shouldn't believe this kind of nonsense. Yet most of the world does.

If a man today killed his only son to show how much he loved other people, he would be considered a madman, locked in jail and earn society's contempt. Yet we think this is some sort of noble act by our Father in Heaven.

In Heaven? What, with the harps and the winged angels and the 72 virgins? My God, how stupid do you have to be to believe that?

I know most of you don't actually read your religious texts, and when you do, you assiduously try to avoid the parts that make no sense whatsoever or hide underneath the comforting grasp of your religious leaders who have concocted a bunch of circular logic (a crime to even use that word in regards to Christianity, Islam or Judaism) to shield you from the obvious folly of the written text.

So, I'm not calling you stupid if you haven't really read the material. And I know how powerful brainwashing is. We all received it when we were young and it is exceedingly difficult to break its grasp. But people dance around the issue out of politeness because they don't want to call you what you are -- ignorant.

There are a lot of people I love dearly and respect wholeheartedly who believe in religion. I hate to do this to them. But we have killed far too many people, wasted far too much time on this nonsense for us to keep going in this direction for fear of offense.

Jesus was a lunatic. God is not coming to your rescue. He hasn't come to anyone's rescue in thousands of years, including Jesus. Mohammed was a power hungry, scam artist and ruthless conqueror. Moses and Abraham were figments of the imagination of some long dead rabbi. He would probably laugh his ass off at all of you who still believe the fairytales he made up thousands of years ago. He probably wouldn't even believe it if you told him.

Did I mention Judaism? The chosen people? Come on, get off it. People walk around in clothes from 18th century Russia, thinking they have been chosen by God when they look like a bunch of jackasses. I'm tired of all the deaths because we did not want to give offense. Orthodox Jews are wrong and ridiculous.

As are the orthodox and fundamentalists of all of the religions. It says in the Bible that it is an abomination to wear clothes made of two different cloths or to eat shellfish. If you think God will hate you because you mixed wool and linen or because you ate some shrimp, you are insane.

How long are we going to dance around the 800-pound gorilla in the room? The world is run by madmen. It's not just Bush and bin Laden. It is the leader of all of the countries in the Middle East, almost all of the Americas and most of the rest of the world.

Have I offended you? That's too bad. Stop killing each other in the name of false and ridiculous Gods and I will stop ridiculing you. Trust me, your offense is much worse than mine.

Right now as you read this, there are ignorant, hateful Muslims teaching other ignorant Muslims how to put on a suicide belt. There are orthodox Jews telling other Jews how they must never leave their "holy land" no matter what the consequences are to other human beings. They assure their followers -- remember, they are not the chosen ones, we are. If we crush and oppress them, don't worry, God will excuse it, and even desires it, because He is on our side.

There are maniacal Christians who are praying for the end of time. Who are hoping that most of the world's population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God. Whom they believe is, ironically, a loving God. Unless, of course, you make the fatal mistake of not kissing his ass and appeasing him, in which case he will slaughter you and condemn you to eternal torture. What kind of sick people believe this?

The kind who live next to you. The kind who voted for George Bush. The kind who send their religious leaders to the White House to argue against even-handedness in the Middle East because it would prevent their sick prophecy. The kind who have undue influence over how we use the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man.

If you don't want to be called ignorant or misinformed, then get informed. Learn the real nature of our universe and put aside old wives tales about resurrected Gods, omniscient prophets and a guy who could split the Red Sea but couldn't find where he's going in the desert for forty years.

It's the year 2005. Let's start acting like it.

Linkyhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygu ... _9349.html

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2005-10-27 12:18pm

Simplistic much?

*totes a "Get off my side, you're making my side look bad" sign*

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-10-27 12:25pm

He's not pulling any punches, but he's not essentially wrong. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity expect us to take absurd and quite frankly stupid fairy tales seriously, and worse yet, practitioners of all three expect society at large to obey many of their bullshit rules. They are all factually, scientifically, logically dead flat wrong: just as wrong as thinking that Santa Claus is a real guy.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2005-10-27 12:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:He's not pulling any punches, but he's not essentially wrong. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity expect us to take absurd and quite frankly stupid fairy tales seriously, and worse yet, practitioners of all three expect society at large to obey many of their bullshit rules. They are all factually, scientifically, logically dead flat wrong: just as wrong as thinking that Santa Claus is a real guy.

As true as his statements in regards to those extremeist fundamentalists, I say I have to disagree with him on the point that the thing a bout Religion is is supposed to comfort us, that what we are doing in this life will not be in vain and if we have faith on the Lord above (whomever that is)and do good works, the path to salvation will laid open before us as well as the life after this one.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2005-10-27 12:40pm

That was brilliant.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2005-10-27 12:42pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:He's not pulling any punches, but he's not essentially wrong. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity expect us to take absurd and quite frankly stupid fairy tales seriously, and worse yet, practitioners of all three expect society at large to obey many of their bullshit rules. They are all factually, scientifically, logically dead flat wrong: just as wrong as thinking that Santa Claus is a real guy.
As true as his statements in regards to those extremeist fundamentalists, I say I have to disagree with him on the point that the thing a bout Religion is is supposed to comfort us, that what we are doing in this life will not be in vain and if we have faith on the Lord above (whomever that is)and do good works, the path to salvation will laid open before us as well as the life after this one.

If all it did was comfort people, it'd be a harmless little fantasy. But it starts wars and ruins lives, so it's hardly harmless.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2005-10-27 12:44pm

lazerus wrote:
If all it did was comfort people, it'd be a harmless little fantasy. But it starts wars and ruins lives, so it's hardly harmless.

Of Course there are extremists on both sides of the equation. That's why I profess that Fundamentalist wackoes like Robertson and His ilk do not speak for me as a Christian.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-10-27 12:46pm

Just when I get to think "Well, maybe in time Athiests and Theists can eventually manage to get a 'I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone' kind of deal." Someone from one side or another has to go fuck it up. Yes, people who believe in God are logically incorrect. But telling them they are lunatics that believe in an evil arrogant bastard of a God is sure as hell not the way to win any votes. In short I've got about as good of an opinion about this guy as I have about fundies. He's just trying to piss people off and he's gonna do a damn good job of it.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-10-27 12:55pm

Actually his anger is quite well placed. Being angry at ignorant madmen who tell other ignorant people to kill in the name of an unknown being so you can earn your rightful place, is something that is sickeningly prevalent in our world.

He stated that he knew this was offending but felt that offending will at least make people try and take notice rather then try to dance around the issue. He feels for all religon tries to convey is not a particular good thing for some poissible benefits, they are some hideous things being done for the sake of some all loving, all seeing eye.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-10-27 01:04pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Actually his anger is quite well placed. Being angry at ignorant madmen who tell other ignorant people to kill in the name of an unknown being so you can earn your rightful place, is something that is sickeningly prevalent in our world.

He stated that he knew this was offending but felt that offending will at least make people try and take notice rather then try to dance around the issue. He feels for all religon tries to convey is not a particular good thing for some poissible benefits, they are some hideous things being done for the sake of some all loving, all seeing eye.

Except anyone with any knowledge about this issue can say that many religious folks will clam up and scream "No no no!" about this. They will continue to think God as depicted in the Old Testament was not just a whee bit on the genocidal side, and they will continue to vote in politicians who declare that they have faith in God. Hell if anything this report would have the opposite effect from what he wants. Perhaps 20 or as many as 50 years down the road, yes, this article would not piss people off and would get a number of people to see that religion and a Biblical depicted God is rather evil.

Right now a lot of people are scared because their ideas are running into the wall of secularism and secularism is making more and more sense to them. The 'security blanket' of religion is making less and less sense and there are a lot of scared people out there that are going to hold onto that blanket for dear life no matter what it means.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-10-27 01:25pm

Captain Cyran wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Actually his anger is quite well placed. Being angry at ignorant madmen who tell other ignorant people to kill in the name of an unknown being so you can earn your rightful place, is something that is sickeningly prevalent in our world.

He stated that he knew this was offending but felt that offending will at least make people try and take notice rather then try to dance around the issue. He feels for all religon tries to convey is not a particular good thing for some poissible benefits, they are some hideous things being done for the sake of some all loving, all seeing eye.
Except anyone with any knowledge about this issue can say that many religious folks will clam up and scream "No no no!" about this. They will continue to think God as depicted in the Old Testament was not just a whee bit on the genocidal side, and they will continue to vote in politicians who declare that they have faith in God. Hell if anything this report would have the opposite effect from what he wants. Perhaps 20 or as many as 50 years down the road, yes, this article would not piss people off and would get a number of people to see that religion and a Biblical depicted God is rather evil.

Right now a lot of people are scared because their ideas are running into the wall of secularism and secularism is making more and more sense to them. The 'security blanket' of religion is making less and less sense and there are a lot of scared people out there that are going to hold onto that blanket for dear life no matter what it means.

He already acknowledges that.

His article is not meant to convert anyone, unless they are fence sitters with these ideas already in mind. This is why he uses the language he does. He's sick and tired of dancing around it, and wants to do what he can to shock people into thinking about what people use religon for and ask them do they think this is sane.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-10-27 01:34pm

Gez-us, but that was great. I mentally heard Dr. House reading that out and I do so love direct people. If I'm ever wrong on something, I want that approach. I dislike being lied to and made ignorant, so people like this are great.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-10-27 02:37pm

Ghost Rider wrote:He stated that he knew this was offending but felt that offending will at least make people try and take notice rather then try to dance around the issue.

That's the problem, though. When confronted with their own bullshit, people don't stop and go "Oh, damn, guess you're right." You might get a few, but the vast majority will have the reverse reaction, and it's ultimately counter-productive to the outcome you want: atheizing (woot, new word) the world. I've learned this lesson hard from my girlfriend, whose actual beliefs are so close to falling off the moderate Catholic platform and into the realm of humanism that I can taste it. However, every time I bring up the absurdity of religion, she ends up going in the opposite direction and gets more religious. As much fun as "laying the smackdown" on an idiot is, it doesn't win you anything other than the immediate argument, and more than likely sets back the long-term goal of fixing the root problem. If winning the immediate argument and "laying the smackdown" is all you're going for, then I daresay it's far too shortsighted.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-10-27 02:38pm

Ghetto edit: That having been said, I love the article. He's dead-on. But I don't think this article can do much to help, other than perhaps fire up atheists to do something more than sit around and bitch, which is mostly all we do in the face of the rising tides of fundamentalism and the delusional lunacy that is religion.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-10-27 03:40pm

Ghost Rider wrote:He already acknowledges that.

His article is not meant to convert anyone, unless they are fence sitters with these ideas already in mind. This is why he uses the language he does. He's sick and tired of dancing around it, and wants to do what he can to shock people into thinking about what people use religon for and ask them do they think this is sane.

Isn't that basically him trying to convert people? Getting them to see the bullshit they're spewing and thus changing their ideas, therefore trying to convert them.

He's pissing off the religious right, pushing the moderates further to the right, the liberal he's going to get mixed results of either pushing them into being more religious or going to get a "Yeah, we should do something... but we're too lazy". Or for the athiests he's preaching to the choir. All in all a generally useless article when it comes down to it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-10-27 04:30pm

McC wrote:That's the problem, though. When confronted with their own bullshit, people don't stop and go "Oh, damn, guess you're right." You might get a few, but the vast majority will have the reverse reaction, and it's ultimately counter-productive to the outcome you want: atheizing (woot, new word) the world. I've learned this lesson hard from my girlfriend, whose actual beliefs are so close to falling off the moderate Catholic platform and into the realm of humanism that I can taste it. However, every time I bring up the absurdity of religion, she ends up going in the opposite direction and gets more religious.

No offense, but have you considered the possibility that this is a personality defect on her part rather than a flaw in your approach?

As much fun as "laying the smackdown" on an idiot is, it doesn't win you anything other than the immediate argument, and more than likely sets back the long-term goal of fixing the root problem. If winning the immediate argument and "laying the smackdown" is all you're going for, then I daresay it's far too shortsighted.

Ah yes, because several centuries of pussy-footing around the sensibilities of religious morons have been sooooo effective throughout the world.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-10-27 04:59pm

When attacked, most people react defensively. I don't agree with how this was written, a rabid attack with little to back it up does nothing to win over converts.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2005-10-27 05:05pm

He's right, although telling people to "go get informed" is hardly a very proactive stance, and hardly any different from pussy-footing.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-10-27 05:18pm

Darth Wong wrote:No offense, but have you considered the possibility that this is a personality defect on her part rather than a flaw in your approach?

I generally regard religious belief as a mental defect in general. What do you propose, that I utterly ravage her mind with unrelenting logic? That doesn't strike me as a very loving, compassionate approach to take with someone you, well, love.

Ah yes, because several centuries of pussy-footing around the sensibilities of religious morons have been sooooo effective throughout the world.

Pandering (or, pussy-footing, as you put it) isn't the solution either. But "smackdown" isn't going to do any more good than pussy-footing. Smackdown will polarize. Smackdown does polarize.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-10-27 05:31pm

Why doesn't anyone ever give Hindus or Sikhs a hard time? It almost makes me want to convert and be off the radar of the whole debate.

Whoo! Martial caste race!

Redleader34 · Post by **Redleader34** » 2005-10-27 05:35pm

Simply beacuse the shikas and muslims ar not a majorty party in current global poltics. I personaly am a Roman catloic and this rant is slighty scary, but then again, the (reltive)truth is scary.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-10-27 05:40pm

Bah. Hindus may only have one major country, but India is a huge rising power, and a nuclear one to boot. I guess everyone just overlooks the Hinduism thing (and the Hindu extremists) because a) they mostly harass people in India and b) it's the biggest democracy in the world.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-10-27 05:44pm

Hindus etc. are not as big a problem as mainstream Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Really, a better religion (or philosophy rather) is Buddhism which doesn't rely on magical deities and false hopes of an afterlife and virgins.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-10-27 05:49pm

Alright, but mellower conceptions of afterlife don't really make a difference in whether or not you will engage in Muslim hating/massacring, as recent events in Gujarat have shown.

And that leads to my point- it doesn't really matter what religions are dominant, either Abrahamic faiths, or Eastern ones. You're still gonna get alot of people either killing each other because of what their religion dictates, or killing each other because the other guy's religion is different.

Except Buddhists. They're always in a loophole. Though do the Imperial Japanese in WWII count as truly Buddhist?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-10-27 05:52pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote: Though do the Imperial Japanese in WWII count as truly Buddhist?

No; WWII Japan was Shinto, which is a native Japanese religion.