The Anti-RPG Manifestor: Why RPGS Are Rotten to the Core

[Adrian Laguna]

I'd also say that in my view, any RPG which doesn't allow tactical control of combat is worthless. What's the point of switching from D&D to a computer RPG if the computer uses the same "roll the dice" method of combat resolution that's been used for decades in board games? Shouldn't a computer RPG actually take advantage of some of the unique features of computers? I can't figure out why someone would play a computer RPG which essentially mimics the behaviour of a non-computer RPG. Hell, I've seen some computer RPGs which almost look as if they're trying to mimic the appearance of a board game.

Baldur's Gate allows limited tactical control. For example, you need to put you fighters between the enemy and the magues or else your mages become mince-meat. You need to manouver thieves around enemy positions in order to properly backstab.

The game does use the dice roll thing to resolve conbat, but (like in the board-game) it is not entirely random as choosing weapons and, more importantly, assigning targets (who will attack what, should I have all of my meelee fighters concentrate on one troll or have each one take a differnt troll). The magic system adds even more tactical depth, what with choosing which spells to use and when to used them...

I just realized that what I wrote has nothing to do with with your post. So (as I pointed out) there are some RPGs that take advantage of the computer's abilities. I agree that those that don't are stupid, however putting the D&D (or any other) system on the computer means that you can play without needing to find people who are also interested in playing an RPG.

[brianeyci]

You guys want an insight into a twisted mind, okay here you have it .

Repetitive can be fun, depending on the reward. It is always about the reward, either emotional, psychological or an actual item (physical).

With FPS... go around, see a newbie, shoot him in the head. Second time, he comes around, you shoot him in the head the same way. That is repetitive.

On topic, RPG, you hunt for items. People don't like items, but in MMORPG and online RPG, it's all about hanging out with fun people. Eventually though PvE gets boring, so the eventual thrill is getting to defeat another person.

It's all about defeating another person, which is why I don't understand people who play against the computer so often. Yes, call me childish if you want, but I get a thrill from knowing that I'm playing someone who is unpredictable and could possibly defeat me.

I could never get into something like Rome Total War. Putting defenders inside the town square rather than on the wall to take advantage of a glitch? However if this "glitch" involved people in any way, rather than an AI, I might enjoy it.

I'm also no console gamer, I don't even consider myself a gamer, I play a few games a year. I tend to stick to the same game for months, if not half a year. Yeah, it takes a long time for me to get bored, mostly because I enjoy repetitive tasks. I play games to "turn my brain off", take away stress, repetitive helps me relax sometimes.

Brian

[weemadando]

The best PC RPG I have *EVER* encountered was Arcanum. The breadth of character interaction, scope for character action and reaction and the ability for even the smallest actions to permanently alter the game world made it the closest thing to a pen & paper RPG I've ever played.

[Nephtys]

The best PC RPG I have *EVER* encountered was Arcanum. The breadth of character interaction, scope for character action and reaction and the ability for even the smallest actions to permanently alter the game world made it the closest thing to a pen & paper RPG I've ever played.

Arcanum was an excellent game, but it's still a derivative of the formula and style of Fallout 1 and 2. Try those two if you can stand older graphics. They've got a better, more straightforward combat system and even better interaction.

[Adrian Laguna]

My local Walmart had a $10 ($9.99 actually, but I always round-up automatically) Fallout/Fallout 2 pack in the videogame section for a couple of years. By the time I had learned what Fallout was (something with, at the very least, as much fun potential Baldur's Gate II), it was gone.

So the question is, where can I get Fallout 1 and Fallout 2?

[The Grim Squeaker]

WEll if you live in the UK then the sold out series (Or something by that name) is a series of old video games at about 3-5 pounds was where I found Fallout 2.
I have no Idea where to find fallout 1 (It's even better though)

[Ghost Rider]

Too many RPGs, and hell games in general are about repetive procedures for the acquistion of power (which amazingly is the draw of the MMORPG), while this can derived as fun for some, objectively? This is about as fun as working for McDonalds to acquire that TV you really wanted.

A decent game has it's own way of allowing you to either be able to take down what they are going to throw at you, or they gave you everything from the start and that's what you are left with...all without repeating Orc Battle #1890089087652.

I also dislike his whole bit "Other games can be fun even if badly made?", which is nothing more then bullfeathers, because of the inadequecy behind these games. Literally you'd have more fun playing poker against the computer that always draws 20-21.

It's an eh blog because I've seen the argument before for nearly every genre, and almost the same wording.

[weemadando]

The best PC RPG I have *EVER* encountered was Arcanum. The breadth of character interaction, scope for character action and reaction and the ability for even the smallest actions to permanently alter the game world made it the closest thing to a pen & paper RPG I've ever played.

Arcanum was an excellent game, but it's still a derivative of the formula and style of Fallout 1 and 2. Try those two if you can stand older graphics. They've got a better, more straightforward combat system and even better interaction. :P

Arcanum was better than either of the Fallout's due to its greater scope of gameplay, much larger and more varied play area. And more importantly - the magic/tech dynamic which I fucking loved.

[Adrian Laguna]

Interesting, all the reviews I read on Arcanum pretty much agreed on the system being unbalanced in favour of magic. In other words, high level mage > high level mechanical wizard. Of course, that was back when I took reviews as Gospel rather than guidelines. Now I primarily use word of mouth whenever possible.

[Dooey Jo]

Only an idiot would take something like rpgs that millions of people play for fun and then attempt to ague that from some kind of objective standpoint they aren’t fun.

Heh! Welcome to the world that is academic computer game analysis. The next step is proposing that these games should be called something else. Like Computer Battle and Quest Simulations or something. I read somewhere a paper with a proposition that MMORPGs should be called multi-team game platforms or something like that, because the actual gaming is created "inside" the MMORPG, and it is by itself not a game (academical approaches to games annoy me ). I'm seeing similar tendencies in the OP quote...

[Sea Skimmer]

I'd also say that in my view, any RPG which doesn't allow tactical control of combat is worthless. What's the point of switching from D&D to a computer RPG if the computer uses the same "roll the dice" method of combat resolution that's been used for decades in board games?

The main advantage would be that you can simply click ‘save’ and be done with it for the day, rather then having to worry about a table full of cards and dice.

[Crazy_Vasey]

So the question is, where can I get Fallout 1 and Fallout 2?

Easiest place is probably ebay or the second-hand retailers on amazon. I got the double back for a tenner from amazon.co.uk a while back. You're highly unlikely to find it new anywhere now unless someone finds some old stock or something.

[Nephtys]

Interesting, all the reviews I read on Arcanum pretty much agreed on the system being unbalanced in favour of magic. In other words, high level mage > high level mechanical wizard. Of course, that was back when I took reviews as Gospel rather than guidelines. Now I primarily use word of mouth whenever possible.

Magic's easier to use than Tech.
Tech has more repeatability than Magic.

So while you may have spell XYZ, you just point, click, cast... with Tech, you can whip out your gun which is slightly less convenient, eats ammo... but better ammo than your stamina, right?

The game's actually fairly balanced, but generally to get the most out of the tech tree, you need to find high level schematics like Revivifiers, Mind Control Syrum, Pyrotechnic Gun and Steam Powered Plate.

[The Jester]

I think there's something to be said for the idea that certain kinds of games encourage (or even require) people to engage in purely repetitive exercises in order to improve their characters. And while people may dispute the objectivity of "fun", I would submit that no reasonable person would consider highly repetitive exercises to be fun.

People like to see their characters grow more and more powerful and derive satisfaction that they were the one controlling the process, even if it's mindless and repetitive and a script could do just as good a job as what they do. I would argue that the fact that it is mindless and repetitive makes it more "rewarding" as the cognitive dissonance kicks in.

RPG's which reward mindless repetitive play with improving the player's character may not may not seem so thrilling, but it does guarantee that your character will get better. Other types of games may require quick reflexes or sharp thinking to truly perform well in, so they lack the guarantee that the players time will translate into bigger, badder characters that repetitive play offers. Anybody can beat the game with time. Anybody can defeat Emerald and Ruby Weapons if they know what to do. And even if you used a guide to assist you, all those that have defeated Emerald and Ruby Weapon will attest to an immense sense of accomplishment at what they've achieved (even if it never actually required skill or thought).

The good thing is that gaming genres are continually evolving and we should see player values migrate away from repetitive style of playing to something more open and closer to what we think of being a true RPG. The problem is that the gaming market still values impressive visuals above all else and the exponentially growing hardware performance in this area is driving up development costs which places limitations on how well other areas of the game can be developed. However, what I believe the successes of the GTA series has taught us is that gamers are beginning to value freedom in their games. A smart developer should hopefully learn from GTA's successes and adapt to it, which should lead to more successes and therefore more developers investing in offering more freedom in their games.

It's slow, and the ever increasing costs of better graphics are an issue, but I think we're already seeing signs of these changes in the industry already. It may take some time, but we're getting there.