". . . . . . .were God's wrath."

[Magnetic]

Here's one of those funny fundies who see "God's wrath" in tragic events (he was commenting to my statement earlier about how many of the churches in my denomination were destroyed while the French Quarter remained relatively untouched), as well as my response to him. Happy Halloween!

That's interesting that you think that. Who is to say God should treat a sinner more harshly than he does a Christian? The Hurricanes are perfect examples of God's wrath. The tsunami was God's wrath. The plague's of 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries were God's wrath. No one would like to admit it, but 9/11 was God's wrath. Just because the French Quarter wasn't damaged as badly as an area of Christians was, that doesn't mean it wasn't God's wrath. Look at how Christianity was tested and passed with flying colors when the Hurricane hit. Christians were some of the first people there, even before FEMA could take care of people, Christians were in there helping out, and spreading the Gospel.

Well, I disagree with you, but you're entitled to that opinion. The hurricanes, tsunami, as well as earthquakes, tornadoes, etc are just a product of an earth that rotates, slides on plates, cyclically warms and cools. Plagues are the result of poor sanitation and compromised food stores. The happenings of 9/11 were the result of a fanatical religious muslim sect who think that their god is the one true god who decrees that the infidels must die.

[CaptJodan]

So he's saying that God is perfectly just in punishing his folllowers more than the sinners he hates so much, in order to....test their faith.

You've got to admit, that kind of level of stupidity really is astonishing. I can't understand what posesses these people to believe that God has the RIGHT to do such things as this.

I have a dog. I am vastly superior in intelligence and capability as my dog. Now, my dog isn't the most affectionate dog there is. She just doesn't like to come around and hang out with people all that much. In their fairy tale land, it is perfectly right for me to go over and smack my dog around, break a few bones, beat the shit out of it because it doesn't "worship me". Or better yet, if she does come over to spend some time with me, I should do the same thing in order to test to see if it's genuine love. I'm superior, right? I'm like a God to the dog. I could end it's life at any time.

That's basically what they're saying here. God, (who's in a worse position because he doesn't even show himself as I do to my dog) has been held up as something that can never be wrong, no matter what he does. God has no moral responsibilty. God merely does, and we are to accept. Punish and kill his followers? Why, that's just our silly God. Don't worry, we still love him.

[Magnetic]

So he's saying that God is perfectly just in punishing his folllowers more than the sinners he hates so much, in order to....test their faith.

You've got to admit, that kind of level of stupidity really is astonishing. I can't understand what posesses these people to believe that God has the RIGHT to do such things as this.

I have a dog. I am vastly superior in intelligence and capability as my dog. Now, my dog isn't the most affectionate dog there is. She just doesn't like to come around and hang out with people all that much. In their fairy tale land, it is perfectly right for me to go over and smack my dog around, break a few bones, beat the shit out of it because it doesn't "worship me". Or better yet, if she does come over to spend some time with me, I should do the same thing in order to test to see if it's genuine love. I'm superior, right? I'm like a God to the dog. I could end it's life at any time.

That's basically what they're saying here. God, (who's in a worse position because he doesn't even show himself as I do to my dog) has been held up as something that can never be wrong, no matter what he does. God has no moral responsibilty. God merely does, and we are to accept. Punish and kill his followers? Why, that's just our silly God. Don't worry, we still love him.

They say the 'right' comes from God being the creator, we being the created. He is the potter, we are the clay. What right does the clay have to question what the potter does? Stuff like that.

[AdmiralKanos]

The really scary thing about fundies is imagining what might happen if our knowledge of genetic engineering ever reached the point where we can custom-design a living being. Since it is our creation, then by their logic, we can be as cruel as we want to it and it's all righteous and good.

[Magnetic]

The really scary thing about fundies is imagining what might happen if our knowledge of genetic engineering ever reached the point where we can custom-design a living being. Since it is our creation, then by their logic, we can be as cruel as we want to it and it's all righteous and good.

But we wouldn't. That has been one of my many questions to the folks at the christian based forum that I go to. Apparently, our idea of what 'love' is isn't the same as God's idea. And of course, our idea is now flawed because of the 'fall of man'.

[CaptJodan]

But we wouldn't. That has been one of my many questions to the folks at the christian based forum that I go to. Apparently, our idea of what 'love' is isn't the same as God's idea. And of course, our idea is now flawed because of the 'fall of man'.

Well they got you there. God's idea of love is vastly different than our idea of love today. We don't believe in stoning our kids to death if they curse at us. God has a different view.

[Magnetic]

I honestly can't reconsile the theology that God has this perfect love for his creation, but then set up all those rules, such as stoning a disobedient son, and then sentencing people to Hell for simply not accepting the gift of salvation.

There has to be something else. . . . . something that is missing from the equation. Did these Hebrew people completely misunderstand God? Was it a religion thought up by themselves? It almost seems like God is caught off guard from time to time. The apple in the garden, the flood, the incident revolving around the 10 commandments, etc.

[Zero]

The really scary thing about fundies is imagining what might happen if our knowledge of genetic engineering ever reached the point where we can custom-design a living being. Since it is our creation, then by their logic, we can be as cruel as we want to it and it's all righteous and good.

This is, in many ways, precisely why they don't want genetic engineering to get very far. They don't want us to have the ability to be cruel to our creations.

What such people fail to realize is that if I fuck someone, and my sperm combines with her egg to produce a kid, I made the kid (halfway, at least), not God, so following the logic of creator-is-always-right, I should be able to beat the fucker to death with no consequence. But that's just stupid..

[The Guid]

But if you believe that every single child is a blessing from God then you were no part of the creation process really.

[Zero]

But if you believe that every single child is a blessing from God then you were no part of the creation process really.

I shouldn't have had to fuck her to get things going, if it's a gift from God.

[CaptJodan]

But if you believe that every single child is a blessing from God then you were no part of the creation process really.

The logic they would use would go something like "God allowed you to find her, and God allowed your sperm to fertalize her egg. You or her could have been sterile, or she might have miscarried, but God prevented all that from happening." shit. Nothing happens without God, remember?

[defanatic]

For is not God simultaneously holding together every atom in the universe, pushing around stars and planets and galazies, and keeping most of us sane?
Of course, when Occam's razor is applied...

[wautd]

9/11 was God's wrath.

Yes, all must bow to the power of Allah, for He doesn't dick around

[SpacedTeddyBear]

That's interesting that you think that. Who is to say God should treat a sinner more harshly than he does a Christian? The Hurricanes are perfect examples of God's wrath. The tsunami was God's wrath. The plague's of 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries were God's wrath. No one would like to admit it, but 9/11 was God's wrath. Just because the French Quarter wasn't damaged as badly as an area of Christians was, that doesn't mean it wasn't God's wrath. Look at how Christianity was tested and passed with flying colors when the Hurricane hit. Christians were some of the first people there, even before FEMA could take care of people, Christians were in there helping out, and spreading the Gospel.

So much for an all loving god. Only the most cruel of dictators would punish their most loyal subjects.

[speaker-to-trolls]

9/11 was God's wrath.

Yes, all must bow to the power of Allah, for He doesn't dick around

*Cough*Palestine*cough*

[Molyneux]

So he's saying that God is perfectly just in punishing his folllowers more than the sinners he hates so much, in order to....test their faith.

You've got to admit, that kind of level of stupidity really is astonishing. I can't understand what posesses these people to believe that God has the RIGHT to do such things as this.

I have a dog. I am vastly superior in intelligence and capability as my dog. Now, my dog isn't the most affectionate dog there is. She just doesn't like to come around and hang out with people all that much. In their fairy tale land, it is perfectly right for me to go over and smack my dog around, break a few bones, beat the shit out of it because it doesn't "worship me". Or better yet, if she does come over to spend some time with me, I should do the same thing in order to test to see if it's genuine love. I'm superior, right? I'm like a God to the dog. I could end it's life at any time.

That's basically what they're saying here. God, (who's in a worse position because he doesn't even show himself as I do to my dog) has been held up as something that can never be wrong, no matter what he does. God has no moral responsibilty. God merely does, and we are to accept. Punish and kill his followers? Why, that's just our silly God. Don't worry, we still love him.

They say the 'right' comes from God being the creator, we being the created. He is the potter, we are the clay. What right does the clay have to question what the potter does? Stuff like that.

Le Petit Prince comes through for me again:
"Tu deviens responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as apprivoisé."

For the non-francophiles - "You become responsible, forever, for that which you have tamed."

I'd say that if it applies that much to something you've fed and loved, it'd apply that much more for anything you create...hence God, if He does exist, would have a similar responsibility to us.

[wolveraptor]

Sometimes they say that God is omniscient, and so knows what's best, even if that means beating us.

But he clearly not omniscient. If he were, he would never ask questions to people. In Genesis, he does not appear as soon as the Serpent begins to trick Eve. It would've saved a shitload of grief. Nor does he appear immedietely after the apple is eaten, to expel them immediately. Surely he knew all this was happening.

[wilfulton]

But if you believe that every single child is a blessing from God then you were no part of the creation process really.

The logic they would use would go something like "God allowed you to find her, and God allowed your sperm to fertalize her egg. You or her could have been sterile, or she might have miscarried, but God prevented all that from happening." shit. Nothing happens without God, remember?

Hmpf, yet if she does miscarry, it's also God's will. And the same if your swimmers can't swim. It's the thing about a person who is completely full of shit. When you put the pressure on, he starts talking out his ass!

[wilfulton]

For is not God simultaneously holding together every atom in the universe, pushing around stars and planets and galazies, and keeping most of us sane?

So if I'm going crazy, doesn't that prove he's just another shenanigan conjured up by a bunch of robed robbers to bilk people out of their tithes?

Now not only must God have a lot of time on his hands if he holds together countless petillion atoms and where they are at the given moment, but if he's holding them together, isn't it his fault if we sin, for does he not drive what goes on inside us? We're a part of this universe too, and we're also made of atoms, just like the rest of it.

Forget Occam's razor, grab wilfulton's blowtorch!

[Vicious]

They say the 'right' comes from God being the creator, we being the created. He is the potter, we are the clay. What right does the clay have to question what the potter does? Stuff like that.

Note: This post is directed at the argument Magnetic mentioned, not Magnetic himself.
Right, the next time my crockery talks to me, or moves of it's own volition, or indicates in any manner that it possesses the barest spark of life, I will grant it the treatment it deserves. Until that time, I will continue baking my casseroles in it and eating my food from it.

By this logic, a father could justify raping his daughter because "he created her". Yes, the mother participated and could be argued to do more work, but neither functions on it's own to create the child so either could, theoretically, make the contention that they have as much right to Creator-status as the other. This is, of course, absurd and would get you laughed at and publically scorned. Yet the fundies will use the same argument to justify God's actions because he is "beyond comprehension". Or he's just not there and they are desperately scrambling around trying to explain why things occur, even though their explanations are wildly inaccurate and infact worse than no explanation at all.

Also, I like how God apparently does not have to follow the dictates which he gave to Man. Apparently, he is above morality and law, and thus is not bound by our concepts of good and decency. He did, afterall, commit adultery (deitery?) with Mary. So much for "lead by example".

[Zero]

You could find much better then adultery. How many people has God killed for no real reason at all?

[Magnetic]

More 'interesting comments' from the same person:

I was commenting on his statement that God causes things to happen, .. . here's his post:

I hate to break it to you, but that entire statement was a degredation to any sort of sovereignty our God Almighty has. Who do you think rotates the earth, slides those plates, makes hurricanes and storms? Who do you think made humans prone to diseases like that of the plagues? Who do you think made Muslims even come into existence? Ishmael was infact a son of Abraham. That is where Islam can be traced back to. You cannot say God did not make those things happen. Saying those things happen on their own is alarming, as it should be to any Christian.

If God did not make the hurricanes, is the Earth more powerful than He?

If God did not make 9/11 happen, does that make those Muslims more powerful than Him?

No, I didn't make that quote up. I basically started talking about the coriolis effect, the earth's sitting on a liquid crust (because God would have had to create the laws of nature for life to happen), and he replies:

First off, the very basis of your argument is erroneous. God did not have to operate around laws. God could have made everything completely opposite if he wished to do so. HE made the laws that all things go by, he didn't abide by the laws of nature. HE made the coriolis effect.

Also, saying that the hurricane just happened with out God making it happen IS saying God less powerful than he actually is. That means He simply "allows" things to happen. God is not a passive being. He is much more active than anyone can comprehend. The sovereignty of our Lord is much greater than any of us can comprehend. People assume God is always working to make people happy. People tend to think suffering is an absence of God. Suffering is God in action just as prosperity. Why would an athiest become a multi-billionaire if God's in control? Why not? God can do ANYTHING he wants, and we are not to even QUESTION such a fact. Job did so, and God rebuked him.

More for your viewing pleasure.

[Magnetic]

I had a rather flippant respons to him:

So, a hurricane that develops in the Atlantic and weekens to a tropical storm, or depression, . . . or dies all together before reaching land was what, . . . . . . . God saying, . ."Just kidding!"? Or was it rather the fact that the warmth of the water just wasn't warm enough to sustain the hurricane so it died out? Also, so God decides to only use hurricanes to punish people at certain times of the year, .. . . . . which just so happens to be around the same time of the year, each year? Next year, should we change the "2006 Hurricane Season" to the "2006 Judgement of God Season"?

[Vicious]

You could find much better then adultery. How many people has God killed for no real reason at all?

True, but the Christians rant and rave about fidelity and the like, so I picked that instance.

[wautd]

Reading Fubajuba's jibberisch was quite painfull. Please PM me the link so I can hurt my brain some more