Would you teach your children religion?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-11-07 11:58am

I will teach my kids why I have concluded that religion is stupid.

In fact, I will teach them not only why religion is stupid, but I will show them how it actively promotes the spread of stupidity to others. Only religion could make millions of people take a book seriously as an historical or scientific resource even when it describes talking shrubbery.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-11-07 11:59am

Like others, I intend to teach my kids about other religions, including christianity, but only in the context of a rational skepticism. I might teach some of the Bible tales, but they would be taught as fairy tales alongside other fairly tales.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-11-07 12:00pm

Darth Wong wrote:I will teach my kids why I have concluded that religion is stupid.

In fact, I will teach them not only why religion is stupid, but I will show them how it actively promotes the spread of stupidity to others. Only religion could make millions of people take a book seriously as an historical or scientific resource even when it describes talking shrubbery.

Don't forget to mention that this book with talking shrubbery and donkeys also has rather clear editing and badly done editing.

I'd ask any doubting kid..."Will you belive a story that contradicts itself?"

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2005-11-07 12:25pm

You left out one option:

I'm not having any children so it doesn't matter.

Carry on with the poll.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-11-07 01:26pm

Darth Wong wrote:I will teach my kids why I have concluded that religion is stupid.

In fact, I will teach them not only why religion is stupid, but I will show them how it actively promotes the spread of stupidity to others. Only religion could make millions of people take a book seriously as an historical or scientific resource even when it describes talking shrubbery.

Your wife is/was a Diest, how does that effect this if at all?
If I am not asking too personal a question, I don't mean to.

I would try and teach them about religions so they will not be taken in by snake oil salesman but not worship. What is really funny is that you have to figure the leader of the American Athiest society had to have taught this yet one of her sons became a Fundamentalist.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-11-07 02:12pm

Kitsune wrote:Your wife is/was a Diest, how does that effect this if at all?
If I am not asking too personal a question, I don't mean to.

She's not sure what she believes, but she's damned sure the Bible is wrong. There's no real compatibility issue there.

I would try and teach them about religions so they will not be taken in by snake oil salesman but not worship. What is really funny is that you have to figure the leader of the American Athiest society had to have taught this yet one of her sons became a Fundamentalist.

There's a difference between teaching that religion is stupid and teaching why religion is stupid. It's possible that she taught the former but not the latter.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-11-07 02:51pm

Yes I would teach my children of religion. I would raise them in a secular enviroment, not specificaly an Atheist enviroment. I would teach them about religion when they get older, let them know my beliefs, but let them make their own decision on the matter. I would not force my religious beliefs (or lack there of) onto them. I would want them to be smart enough to come to the same conclusions I have.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-11-07 04:23pm

Me and my girlfriend have talked about this recently. An event that made me just how deep our relationship had got. Mary is lucky that her mum is actually an RE teacher and has taught her about all religions, not just the catholicism that she was born to. As such we've decided that we can trust out child, if we have any, to make his our her own decision. We will make out child aware of the options and support as best we can what ever choice he or she makes. For the record Mary and I are both athiests.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-11-07 04:31pm

Ha ha ha, listen to the people pretending they know what it will be like. Trust me, when you have a child of your own, sooner or later your kid will come up to you and ask you point-blank: "is God real?"

What are you going to do, tell him to make up his own mind? He's asking you because he wants to know what you think, pal. You are, for this brief moment in time, his mentor, his friend, his protector, his benefactor, his teacher, and his guide. And he wants to know what you think.

The key to raising a kid properly is not avoid imparting your views to him; he wants your views! He is not mature enough to decide these things on his own, for fuck's sake. But you have to hope that you give him enough critical thinking skills that he will eventually be able to understand these things on his own.

Mind you, there's a difference between telling your kid "there's no God" and the kind of 24/7 proactive "indoctrination and cultural isolation" program that fundies use on their kids, but you won't be able to just "let him make up his own mind" even if you want to. You will teach him what you believe to be true, because even if you don't, he will ask you. And then you will also hopefully teach him how to think critically and make up his own mind on such things, so that by the time he gets old enough to start questioning things, he will be able to do so in an intelligent fashion.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-11-07 04:37pm

I think it would be possible to side step the issue somewhat. Though as you say, its not so much what you say. Whats more important is they don't become indoctrinated. You can say certain things to the child and they will believe it, but if you don't indoctrinate them on the subject, as they grow older they can make decisions for themselves.

You do raise a good point, and I hadn't considered what I might say to my child if they asked such a question. The best I could offer to the question "does God exist?" is "I do not believe that he exists". Of course for a child, they will take the parents beliefs as absolute facts, so playing the answer like that doesn't really mean anything.

Nice tough issue you raise Mike.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2005-11-07 04:38pm

About religion: Yes. To follow a relgion: Hell no.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2005-11-07 04:59pm

If I have kids, I plan to teach them about religion to a small extent. I will certainly teach them the stuff my parents never taught me: God is actually immoral. As a child, I was encouraged to learn about science (which I think I would have gotten into anyway), so taking the Bible literally was never an option, but it didn't occur to me to question God's validity as a moral authority figure. I sort of assumed that anything God did must be right, and if he killed people for turning away from worshipping him, well, they shouldn't have turned away in the first place. It wasn't until I was 14, when I was taking a mythology/religion course in school, that my conscience really started objecting to the Old Testament. I'm pretty sure it was when I heard the story of Moses and the plagues, and the way God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that Pharaoh wouldn't let Moses go so that God would have an excuse to make bad things happen to the Egyptians.

I don't remember if I was an atheist by that time or not. I think I was agnostic and leaning towards atheism. I had heard people say that God was a homicidal maniac, but it never really hit home until I was in 9th grade. That's pretty old, and if I have kids I want to give them the intellectual tools to question not only bad science but also bad morals before they get that old. I wish I could have done the same.

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-11-07 05:11pm

I'd raise my kids in a neutral "atheistic" environment. Let them choose, let them learn, but I would NOT let them be "drawn in" by any of the bullshit.

Comando293 · Post by **Comando293** » 2005-11-07 06:54pm

My kids will learn all of the stories, from all of the major religions, but I will not force them to follow any religion after 14 or so. After that it is up to them. they will have learned to think and have their own opinions

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-11-07 06:58pm

If my kid just came up and asked me, point blank, I would say, "No," then try to explain it to him, depending on how old he or she is. Like I said, the only religious teaching I would be imparting to them would be from a skeptical point of view. I certainly wouldn't send them to Sunday School or anything like that.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-11-07 08:03pm

Alyeska wrote:I think it would be possible to side step the issue somewhat. Though as you say, its not so much what you say. Whats more important is they don't become indoctrinated. You can say certain things to the child and they will believe it, but if you don't indoctrinate them on the subject, as they grow older they can make decisions for themselves.

You do raise a good point, and I hadn't considered what I might say to my child if they asked such a question. The best I could offer to the question "does God exist?" is "I do not believe that he exists". Of course for a child, they will take the parents beliefs as absolute facts, so playing the answer like that doesn't really mean anything.

Nice tough issue you raise Mike.

I don't see why it's so tough. Showing bias won't undo any "critical thinking" you've instilled into the child.Is God real? No. Are ghosts the spirits of dead people? No. Are aliens abducting people? No. How many people were christian and then thought their way out of it? The majority of atheists, presumably; the kid will still retain thinking ability whether or not you tell them God is real or God is pretend.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-11-07 09:30pm

More important than saying, "No", I presume, would be making damn sure the kid knows why. I guess a simple, 6-year-old way to put it would be as such: "No one has ever seen god, felt god or heard god. People say they feel god's love, but if you ask them, 'how do you know it was god?' they don't have a reason. God is something people made up because it makes them feel better."

I think that if I had any children, I would only teach them about religion if they came to me with questions about god/gods. I'm sure that would happen at some point, me living in the US and whatnot. At that point, I'd explain about religion, and why people made it up. Ockham's Razor for kids: "When you're trying to explain how something happened, you don't put something in that doesn't need to be there."

To all the people who want to tell their children Greek and Nordic tales, be warned. They aren't really age appropriate. Greeks usually have an orgy with some animal every other page, and the Norse are famed for having epics bloodier than the Illiad.
Granted, the problem really isn't talking about sex and violence (which I don't feel is so harmful): it's that your kid will repeat that shit to everyone else in school, and land his ass in detention.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-11-07 11:19pm

wolveraptor wrote:To all the people who want to tell their children Greek and Nordic tales, be warned. They aren't really age appropriate.

And the Bible is?

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-11-07 11:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:To all the people who want to tell their children Greek and Nordic tales, be warned. They aren't really age appropriate.
And the Bible is?

But we've got Zaccheus the wee little man climbing the fig tree, Noah and the Ark with all the animals goin' in two by two, Moses gettin' da LAAAAAAAAW from God, Abraham ever-so-sadly goin' forth to sacrifice his only begotten son to the Laaaaaawd (who was so kind that He provided a lamb instead-- just jokin', Big A!), and of course Jesus loves the lil' chilluns...

It's surprising-- well, no, it's not really-- how selective Sunday School classes can be.

As for me-- I don't really intend to teach what kids I have regarding religion; if they want to know, they'll ask. If they have questions, they can ask. In my opinion, there are no stupid questions; there are only questions which one may not want to answer, or doesn't have the answer for, or may want to answer selectively (the latter category is for stuff they don't really need to know about at their age, which will of course change as they get older). When the whole 'Is there a God?' issue comes up, I'll answer honestly with what *I* believe, but at some point make it clear that this is something that they should decide for themselves.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-11-07 11:38pm

Rye wrote:I think ancient mythology isn't really the best beginnign material, I think modern day mythology, like spiderman and xmen cartoons would be a better place to start.

I don't know; Greek mythology makes for some good reading. I was raised on Homer.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-07 11:44pm

Greek and Norse mythology didn't traumatize me at age four and a little latter Star Wars didn't traumatize me either. I did cry for half a day when my pet rabbit died, so obviously pet ownership was the real problem.

I recall when I first asked my parents whether or not they believed in God. I was on a walk with my mother and I asked her and she said "no." I said I didn't believe either. Of course, I also staid up late one Christmas Eve in order to catch my parents putting the presents around the tree in order to confirm that Santa didn't exist.

Larz · Post by **Larz** » 2005-11-08 12:07am

I'll teach my kids about all the different major and some of the minor religions out there and if they ask my take on them I'll tell them. If they ask why I believe as I do then I'll tell them why each one is stupid, backwards, and plain rubbish. Of course I'll expect my children to ask such things because I plan to raise them to be logical and rational individuals.

Of course if they want to follow religion after all that then thats fine a good as long as they don't attempt to show me "error in my ways."

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-11-08 12:45am

Well I was raised in more or less a religious vacuum. My mom had some Jehova's Witnesses over now and again when I was very little, but she never actually joined, and they quit coming around at some point. I just remember them as some ladies who would come over and talk to my mom about boring stuff while I played.

Dad was an ex-Catholic, and while he never spoke of religion much at all, I found out later that he had steadfastly refused to let our mom take any of us kids to any sort of church. Hence I came up with my "God is bullshit" opinion entirely on my own, only finding out afterward that my dad agreed with me.

Thing is, my youngest brother was born when I was sixteen. By then my mother had settled into placid agnosticism, while my father's anti-religion stance had only become stronger. And of course, there was me around. Neither myself nor my father ever tried to speak to my little brother about religion or anything related to it, but kids have ears. He would overhear us talking to each other.

So by the time he was five, he would look at the neighbor's house with the big "Jesus" sign on the roof (no shit) and ask my mom what it was doing there, since all that stuff was fake anyway. Within a few more years he was piping in with "If God WERE real, why would he allow X, Y, and Z?" type comments.

What can you do? I've made sure to try to impress upon him WHY I hold these opinions to be correct, and that he should keep his opinions to himself outside of the family. But in and of itself, IMHO, there's no particular reason why you shouldn't let your kid know God is bullshit.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-11-08 12:55am

Teach them to follow a religion? Hell no! But I definately would introduce them to the various myths of the religions around the world. The different versions of creation stories are often good reads, the Norse myths are probably my favorite (I sometimes wish I could believe in Thor, he is that awesome) and the Native American and Greek myths are all very nice too. I'd probably include the Bible too, I'd try to present them all as stories written long ago and portray them as equally mythical. If directly asked 'the question' I'd answer truthfully according to my beliefs. God does not exist. Later I could expand on that, including areas where I'm fuzzy about possibly freaky things in nature that might qualify as gods or divinity or something, but a direct answer suits a child's direct question. The Christian God does not exist.

Post by **Edi** » 2005-11-08 01:43am

DEATH wrote:
NecronLord wrote:
DEATH wrote:Personally despite being an atheist, I intend to tell my children bible tales when they're young and show them jewish religion as well as having the circumsized.
I'm sorry, remind me again, why do you want to mutilate your children's genitals?
Because it is a mark of them being jews, I have to say that I have not seen a difference, last time I read it circumcision can prevent inflamation (A type of infection in the cut off skin) .
The fact is if all my family from my grandparents side was killed over them being jews, I intend to maintain that, I'll be the first to admit that it's irrational but I am adamant on it.

Then you really are an asshole of the worst kind and you need to fuck off and get hit by a car before you have a chance to have any children. And if you do manage to avoid doing that long enough to produce offspring, I really hope they will all be girls. Because there is NO justification whatsoever to mutilate your children. Take a fucking good read through these threads:

Circumcision: Don't Do It
Circumcision 'helps to halt HIV'
A question for the guys...
Frenulum sensitivity
Circumcision..Child abuse or parental right?

They should tell you all you need to know about circumcision and probably a lot more than you wanted to know. If you want to know what you will be putting your future kids through compared to what it would be like to leave them uncircumcised, take care to read my posts. And now piss off.

Edi

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Would you teach your children religion?

Will you teach a religion to your children in any degree?

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