Dark Lord; Rise of Darth Vader (Spoilers)

[Sriad]

This is old news (I think we decided on some middle ground) but did Palpatine's PoV have any revelations concerning his duel with Winduu?

I think the "weaker in the Force" thing may have come from an idea that Force, being present in every living thing, is channeled through the whole body. Or something similar. Which is why all the greatest Sith Lords were morbidly obese, and Yoda was a benificiary of affirmative action.

[LordShaithis]

So who does Vader fight, and how does he whip their ass?

[Anarchist Bunny]

This is old news (I think we decided on some middle ground) but did Palpatine's PoV have any revelations concerning his duel with Winduu?

I think the "weaker in the Force" thing may have come from an idea that Force, being present in every living thing, is channeled through the whole body. Or something similar. Which is why all the greatest Sith Lords were morbidly obese, and Yoda was a benificiary of affirmative action.

You know, for a second, before I figured it was a typo, I thought there was a Sparti tube clone of Mace Windu abouts.

[NecronLord]

By "strength" I assume you mean strength in the Force.

Not really, but he usually has that too.

But does it go into any specifics on his cybernetic replacements? IE physically stronger, faster, etc, than he was before?

Not at first. This is why he looks different at the end of RotS (Hayden in the Suit) to his appearance in the Trilogy. He considers the original replacements to be, quite frankly, crap, and improves them himself throughout the book.

So who does Vader fight, and how does he whip their ass?

A few Jedi who only appear in this book. One of whom he beats to near-death with the fore throw technique from ESB, and then lets expire hanging from a tree on Kashyyk.

[nightmare]

(humm, I wonder, should the Victory's class name actually be Victor? It fits the naming scheme better).

I've been thinking the same. So, the Exactor takes the place of Empire as the first ISD Mk II, or did I get that wrong?

[NecronLord]

I've been thinking the same. So, the Exactor takes the place of Empire as the first ISD Mk II, or did I get that wrong?

Exactor is described as the second Imperator class to be built, presumably after the Galactic Republic Starship Imperator, which is later attached to Cardia's academy.

EDIT: It's Impstar Mark One number 2.

[Gorefiend]

I have been wondering if the capacities of the „Imperator“ Class are the same as the “Imperial I” Class. I mean they build these ships for about two decades before the “Imp II” comes around, with better/more weapons and a few other small improvements over the “Imperial I”. I should assume they did little modifications and updates as they went, with new technology and skills they picked up, while building entire fleets of the older ImpStars as well. Doesn’t the Black Fleet novel series even mention that older Imperial Star Destroyers had a different design of shield domes or something of the like? I always got the impression that the Imperator was a pre-run test series of the Imperial, not exactly the same thing, the SWDB Venator entry even sees to supports that they were a least slightly different and that the Imperator was the pre-model.

While the Venator Star Destroyer offered much for its developers to take pride in, the relentless taskmaster Blissex was not content. She had bigger plans in mind. She used her past successes to green-light the ultimate warship of her dreams, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer. Shortly after the end of the Clone Wars, the first test-bed models of this mighty warship were already functioning in classified Imperial shipyards accessible only the New Order's elite.

After Blissex's marriage to Denn Wessex, one of Palpatine's first regional governors to be installed, she used her newfound political clout to prioritize the expansion of the Star Destroyer program. From these early designs, the final Imperial-class would forever change the way order was maintained in the galaxy.


PS: The –or System also doesn’t work for the Eclipse and Sovereign Class Star Destroyers.

[Vympel]

Don't worry about that bullshit databank entry. The ICS makes it clear that Imperator = Imperial, the Imperial is not a different design or some such nonsense.

[Stark]

WTF? Imperators being 'ultimate warships'? The SW databank must really be crap.

[Vympel]

"ultimate warship of her dreams" - I don't like the databank, but in context it's not a stupid statement.

[Gorefiend]

Well young Lady Blissex was a bit of a nutcase anyway, she was also the one asked to “rush” the Executor into production, wasn’t she? Might be the reason for the relatively low capacities of the Executor when put against the Imperial Series, she did not want to do it and had to do it very quickly in addition to that, but I am getting of topic.

Any other ship classes mentioned in the new vader novel, beside the ones already listed above?

[Illuminatus Primus]

I heard Vader uses a black Eta-2 starfighter in this story, any other vehicle-trivia or action?

This is correct. He has a modified Eta-2 in the book, though he has sent his order and designs for a custom fighter to SFS, they've yet to deliver it to the Star Destroyer Exactor. The Exactor, is, incidentally, the second Imperator class (it uses this name) to be built. Victories also get a good showing (humm, I wonder, should the Victory's class name actually be Victor? It fits the naming scheme better).

NEC says it is the result of the Victor project between Rendili and Kuat.

Does it? How'd you find that?

[VT-16]

NEC = New Essential Chronology

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

drive a Star Destroyer over the idea that he's weaker because of his lost limbs.

To elaborate, Darth Sidious thinks that the only things his apprentice can't do because of his injuries are summon force lightning and jump about like he used to be able to. The rest is a confidence problem.

That's actually arguably a huge loss - agility in a Jedi is due a great deal to the Force.

Will I get killed if I ask for a quote, because I'm in that little minority that actually liked the idea of Vader losing something measurable when 80% of his body (and thus Force inducting area) is lost.

Well I'm glad that stupid notion is contradicted. BTW, where the hell di it orginate From? The OT clearly shows that Vader is VERY powerful and the PT doesn't really contradict that.

Wait. How does the OT "clearly show Vader is very powerful"? In terms of feats, the OT is as minimalist on Jedi abilities as it gets. Not even mega jumps, rather conventional saber duels, all that.

[Vympel]

Will I get killed if I ask for a quote, because I'm in that little minority that actually liked the idea of Vader losing something measurable when 80% of his body (and thus Force inducting area) is lost.

Ugh. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

Wait. How does the OT "clearly show Vader is very powerful"? In terms of feats, the OT is as minimalist on Jedi abilities as it gets. Not even mega jumps, rather conventional saber duels, all that.

LUKE: Mostly because of my father, I guess.

CREATURE: Ah, your father. Powerful Jedi was he, powerful Jedi, mmm.

(Yoda's emphasis)

and

YODA: Strong is Vader. Mind what you have learned. Save you it can.

Then of course there's the whole deflecting blaster bolts with his hand, ripping equipment bolted onto walls, crushing the room and everything in it except the Emperor with the force in RotS, and so on.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Ugh. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

If that's so, why do you need special techniques just so your soul won't disintegrate after your body ceases to function? It is clear for all the propaganda, a body is vitally important.

YODA: Strong is Vader. Mind what you have learned. Save you it can.

Compared to a 6-month trained Padawan, anything can be "Strong"... I still can't believe he defeated Vader (especially since he lost to Lumiya a couple of months later)...

Then of course there's the whole deflecting blaster bolts with his hand, ripping equipment bolted onto walls, crushing the room and everything in it except the Emperor with the force in RotS, and so on.

ROTS is PT, not OT. I don't mean to say they weren't impressive in the OT, just that it is hardly the shining example of Jedi powers. Ripping some relatively small pieces of equipment is about the best there.

[Vympel]

If that's so, why do you need special techniques just so your soul won't disintegrate after your body ceases to function? It is clear for all the propaganda, a body is vitally important.

Who says the "special technique" is physical rather than spiritual?

Compared to a 6-month trained Padawan, anything can be "Strong"... I still can't believe he defeated Vader (especially since he lost to Lumiya a couple of months later)...

I don't consider obscure dumbassed old EU when I'm thinking about issues such as this. It's like pretending that Splinter of the Minds Eye is anything but non-canon bullshit. There's some stuff that just didn't happen, official continuity be damned, as far as I'm concerned- I still can't believe that SotME is maintained as actually happening in the Ultimate Visual Guide or whatever, for example.

For why Luke defeated Vader, I think because he's quite powerful himself (the Emperor and Vader both agreed on that, and you just know they're comparing him to themselves) and went into a Dark Side rage. Maybe he wasn't that mad when fighting Lumiya?

ROTS is PT, not OT. I don't mean to say they weren't impressive in the OT, just that it is hardly the shining example of Jedi powers. Ripping some relatively small pieces of equipment is about the best there.

Well yeah, but he was still Vader then. If anything, one could take that bit in the movie at the end of RotS as the movie screaming: "he's still one mighty motherfucker."

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Who says the "special technique" is physical rather than spiritual?

1) From the scientific POV, if the "spiritual" really exists (ex: Star Wars), it involves the manipulation of as yet unknown types of energy. Thus it is also in the realm of the physical.
2) That half red-herring aside, the point is that a special technique is required at all to make up for the loss of your body. If all that is important in a person is the "luminous" soul, then losing the "crude matter" body should not threaten the base existence of the soul. This is somewhat consistent with the way it is portrayed before the PT, where many Jedi got the Ghost thing automatically. But now, they don't.
3) Even before that, the average ghost doesn't really get to do much. Only a soul with a matter attachment AFAIK, can do much in the physical plane.
a) Live Jedi attach to their real bodies,
b) Palpy attaches to clones of himself, even
c) Exar Kun linked himself to a physical castle and is probably restricted to using a bit of his power in the physical plane (he could barely choke the Jedi students when a Sith of his class would probably be able to send them flying across the room).
When Luke was knocked out of his body, he can barely poke R2 with the Force, and we know Luke is a top-rated Force-user at the time and should have been able to hurl R2 across the room and probably produce sound by using the Force to vibrate the air for good measure. Obi-Wan only talked to Luke a few times...

I don't consider obscure dumbassed old EU when I'm thinking about issues such as this. It's like pretending that Splinter of the Minds Eye is anything but non-canon bullshit. There's some stuff that just didn't happen, official continuity be damned, as far as I'm concerned- I still can't believe that SotME is maintained as actually happening in the Ultimate Visual Guide or whatever, for example.

As what our mutual enemies would lump into a group called "Saxtonites", you can't diss the Marvel comics - it is where Giel's big battleship came from

For why Luke defeated Vader, I think because he's quite powerful himself (the Emperor and Vader both agreed on that, and you just know they're comparing him to themselves) and went into a Dark Side rage. Maybe he wasn't that mad when fighting Lumiya?

Note that he was holding his own quite well even before he went berserk.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Will I get killed if I ask for a quote, because I'm in that little minority that actually liked the idea of Vader losing something measurable when 80% of his body (and thus Force inducting area) is lost.

Ugh. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

Right on. Don't listen to Kaz's shrewd lies.

[Pcm979]

Sorry to semi-ressurect this thread, but I noticed something interesting on my second read through.

After ep. 3, there's been some specuation about where Vader obtained 2 of his injuries- The head gash and the artificial vertebrae, respectively.

Well, the book states that the gashes came from botched trephination attempts during the trip back to Coruscant. How his vertebrae became damaged isn't specified, but he had the artificial ones implanted by the time the book begins, roughly a month after RotS. So that eliminates the possibility that it happened some time in the 20 year span between RoS and ANH.

The timeframe is specified on page 51, and the details on the injuries on page 60 of the Century hardback, for reference.

[JME2]

Sorry to semi-ressurect this thread, but I noticed something interesting on my second read through.

After ep. 3, there's been some specuation about where Vader obtained 2 of his injuries- The head gash and the artificial vertebrae, respectively.

Well, the book states that the gashes came from botched trephination attempts during the trip back to Coruscant. How his vertebrae became damaged isn't specified, but he had the artificial ones implanted by the time the book begins, roughly a month after RotS. So that eliminates the possibility that it happened some time in the 20 year span between RoS and ANH.

The timeframe is specified on page 51, and the details on the injuries on page 60 of the Century hardback, for reference.

See, this is why I love Lucenco. He takes little details like these and spins whole tales out of them. Dammit, if only my local stores had the damm book in early...

[Vympel]

Might the artificial verterbrae be related to other cybernetics implanted elsewhere in his body?

[JME2]

A reminder to everyone that Dark Lord officially goes on sale tomorrow.

[Vympel]

If you're lucky enough to be in the states, that is. We poor sods down here have to wait till Dec 31st.

[Ender]

came from botched trephination attempts

I have a fairly large vocabulary, but what the hell does that mean?