Would you teach your children religion?

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-11-08 02:33am

Edi, I know you had to have your peen chopped as an adult and it's filled you with rage, but could you please be a little bit less shrill?

There's no particular reason to snip a kid's willy, Death, but then again it's not like they take out everything from the balls on down with a chainsaw either.

Zornhau · Post by **Zornhau** » 2005-11-08 05:04am

Coming to this late, and as both a dad and somebody who was 'cut' for genuine medical reasons, the circumcision-for-tradition thing disturbed me.

Morality aside, it seems a heck of a gamble.

As my dad always used to say when we did DIY together, "It's a lot easier to cut things off than put them back"!

If you leave his bits "as-is", and your son goes all Zionist later in life, he can get himself circumcised and you can turn it into a significant father/son bonding event.

However, if you go ahead and get him cut, and he does not later give you his retroactive consent, he may be very very pissed off. Look at the anger of the gentleman further up the thread. Imagine that directed at you by your beloved son.

The conversation would be something like this:

Son: Dad, WTF did you have a bit of my dick cut off? I've just discovered that men with foreskins have more sensitivity (etc etc).

You: Tradition, son. Jewish tradition.

Son: But YOU'RE A ####### ATHIEST!!! What the hell kind of excuse is that??

You: But don't you want to be like me?

Son: Y'mean the kind of jerk who has his baby son's genitals mutilated without his consent? Um.... NO!

You: But it's healthier. I read this magazine article once....

Son: Well that settles it. Sorry. I mean, if I'd realised how ####ing meticulously you'd researched it. You could have just taught me to retract and wash.

You: Heck. I'm sorry son.

Son: Sorry won't grow back my foreskin, will it you ######er. That's it, I'm dropping out of college to become a drug dealer.

While we're at it, I'd think carefuly about the content of some of those OT episodes you want to use as bedtime stories. They rather embody an old fashioned patriachal approach to authority in which the father (or Father) can inflict his every whim on his offspring (or Chosen People).

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-08 05:41am

Zornhau wrote: While we're at it, I'd think carefuly about the content of some of those OT episodes you want to use as bedtime stories. They rather embody an old fashioned patriachal approach to authority in which the father (or Father) can inflict his every whim on his offspring (or Chosen People).

That's what so great about them. They taught me a very young age that the nonexistent sky fairy is an evil, hypocritical dick.

Zornhau · Post by **Zornhau** » 2005-11-08 06:12am

It helps to compare and contrast with other mythologies. It also helps that you can't have a crush on Jehova, the way you can for other deities. E.g. I always had a thing for Athene.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-11-08 07:01am

Being an occasional agnostic, I'd teach any future child(ren) about how religions are a sure-way of knowing that, if there is a divine creature, it definitly doesn't give hoot what goes down on Earth. :P

Zadius · Post by **Zadius** » 2005-11-08 07:57am

I will not teach them religion. I will not have them circumcised. I will not have them baptised. I will not make them go to church. None of that. I will, however, teach them about religion. I will teach them about different beliefs and why I think it's a bunch of garbage.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2005-11-08 10:17am

I was in a situation vaguely like this last summer, where I had to decide on the spot what to tell kids about religion. They weren't even my own kids, but I think the story is sort of relevant anyway.

During the summer I work as a camp counselor for preschool-age kids. Last summer I was working with the five-year-olds. I was pushing three of them on the tire swing one morning when somehow God came up. I don't even remember how, but I think one little girl said something along the lines of "Well, doing such-and-such is bad because God said so." And I reacted by saying, "Not everyone believes in God, though, Mary Grace." And then one boy said, "Yeah, there are some bad people who don't believe in God!" in a tone that made those bad people sound like boogeymen, so I said, "Not all people who don't believe in God are bad, Keiran. I mean, I don't believe in God." (I assumed, obviously, that they thought I was an okay person. I'm a pretty nice counselor and they wouldn't really have a reason to believe otherwise.) And then I shut up and a minute later I mentally kicked myself for being really unprofessional and thanked the imaginary God that my boss hadn't been there. It's really not my place to tell them what I think.

But now I'm not sure if it was such a mistake in the first place. It's not a good idea from a professional point of view, but for the kids on that tire swing... well, I hope I made them think a little. And I wouldn't want to take back what I said. I especially hope it helped the boy, Keiran. He's a precocious kid and I was pretty shocked to hear that he didn't... know... these things. I hope that his "atheists are bad people" comment came from an extrapolation of his Sunday school teachings and wasn't quoted from parents who think secularists are trying to take over this country.

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-11-08 11:59am

No. I will teach my purely hypothetical children to regard religion as stories just like all the other myths, and to regard them as such. Also that Conan the barbarian would kick the crap out of Jesus if they were ever to fight (this was a point of great theological debate for me because the Conan cartoons intro song included the words 'he's more powerful than any man', yet the vicar who gave the school assemblies said the same thing about Jesus)

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-11-08 12:19pm

Are you kidding

. joke
The GeoM would kick Jesus's ass, Conan would be too visit using Jesus's whore (Mary of something); still that version also works

Zornhau · Post by **Zornhau** » 2005-11-08 12:28pm

Perhaps Conan would be too busy kicking the crap out of his dad for having him circumcised. Just a thought...

spikenigma · Post by **spikenigma** » 2005-11-08 12:33pm

Discombobulated wrote: *snip - "I don't believe in God little Suzie and little Johnny" story

parental complaints in 5....4.....3.....2.....

I've seen a similar type situation blow up in somebodies face

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2005-11-08 02:36pm

spikenigma wrote:
Discombobulated wrote: *snip - "I don't believe in God little Suzie and little Johnny" story
parental complaints in 5....4.....3.....2.....

I've seen a similar type situation blow up in somebodies face

Yeah, that was my immediate thought after saying what I did, but the incident happened a couple of months ago and nothing ensued. I wouldn't try it again for the reason you mentioned, but still I'm glad I was (hopefully) able to open the kids' minds a little bit. Even if it wasn't really my job to do so.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-08 05:47pm

DEATH wrote: Because it is a mark of them being jews,

So is being hung outside York Castle over an open fire while a crowd chant 'Christ Killers' at you and your familiy. Would you like that to happen to them?

I have to say that I have not seen a difference, last time I read it circumcision can prevent inflamation (A type of infection in the cut off skin) .

These arguments made by the pro-baby mutilation crowd are totally idioctic. You never hear: "They might get Appendicitis, better have the appendix removed at birth" do you?

The fact is if all my family from my grandparents side was killed over them being jews, I intend to maintain that, I'll be the first to admit that it's irrational but I am adamant on it.

Yes. It is irrational to remove the most sensative part of your son's body (you may not know this, take my word for it). Very, very, very irrational.

If they become interested in our familys history (Tracing back to the chief rabbi inn the Ottoman empire at it's peak) Then I want them to know that they are a part of that family and tradition.

How about just telling them? If they want bits of their penis sliced off for archaic religious bullshit, then they can have it done themselves when they're of sufficient age.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-11-08 05:49pm

In related news, a doctor has suggested that all women have their breasts removed at 40 in order to make sure they won't get breast cancer. Sadly, I'm not making this up; some doctors have actually advocated this. They must have the same mentality as the pro-circumcision people.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-08 05:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:In related news, a doctor has suggested that all women have their breasts removed at 40 in order to make sure they won't get breast cancer. Sadly, I'm not making this up; some doctors have actually advocated this. They must have the same mentality as the pro-circumcision people.

Words fail me. Honestly, just when you think there are limits to human stupidity, you are promptly proven wrong.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-11-08 06:30pm

My children are being raised knowing that me and the wife do not believe in traditional religeon (and in my case, not at all). But, if one day they do decide to 'believe' in a religeon, they may but expect me and the wife to 'ask why' and you better have a well thought out reason for it.

Fortunately, so far it seems to have worked well. One of my kid's friends keeps trying to preasure them into it and my son won't have anything to do with it. He told the kid that his idea of how the earth started is wrong because dinosaurs lived longer than 6 thousand years ago.

Yay!

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-11-08 07:14pm

Personally, I think that this is not the place to discuss circumsion, because there have been too many flamewars started over it that did nothing but cause grief and get locked. So let's end this one right here.

As for the Religion... I will more than likely tell my future children BibleStories, and they will more than likely be allowed to go to Vacation Bible School at various churches around town. Why? Because it's how I was raised, and because Vacation Bible School is at heart a social gathering for the kids over the summer.

I will not be taking them to church or Sunday School, however. Why? Becuase I never liked getting up that early to get dressed for church, and I'm not putting my kids through it either.

All in all, I think my children will be raised Deist. Yes, dear, there is a God, but no one really knows the Truth about God. Everyone's just looking at the facets in a crystal and guessing. If I'm lucky, my child will be the closest to a true Christian they can be... honest, tolerant, and caring.

Of course Nitram's going to teach them about Science and Nature.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-11-08 07:15pm

LadyTevar wrote:Of course Nitram's going to teach them about Science and Nature.

And Dinosaurs! What kid doesn't love Dinosaurs?!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-08 07:35pm

Isn't it silly to 'raise someone' in a particular religion? As far as I can see, it gives no benefits above a sensible non-religious upbringing, but gives your child a critical thinking blindspot which they will find very difficult to get rid of. Anyone else know otherwise intelligent, educated people who become stupid when they takl about god et al? It's embarrassing, and I don't know many people who have EVER been able to throw that sort of thing off. Let them choose, with an open mind. Who the fuck cares what religion you were when you were six?

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-11-08 11:46pm

Darth Wong wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:To all the people who want to tell their children Greek and Nordic tales, be warned. They aren't really age appropriate.
And the Bible is?

Well, at least the Bible has a few stories that are somewhat interesting without violence or sex. I can't really think of a kickass Norse myth that doesn't have people slicing each other's heads off or something equally awesome. There are isolated segments of such, but no real complete parables.

I'd just stick to Tolkien for young kids, leaving the kickass Norse stuff for when they're a little older (7 maybe?)

Post by **Kuja** » 2005-11-08 11:59pm

Off the top of my head, there's the story where Thor, Loki, and a human friend of Thor met the giants in disguise.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-11-09 12:05am

The one where Thor and Loki go south to beat up giants, but meet up with this peasant family? I think the human friend was really the son of the peasant. He is taken as a temporary, "one-quest-only" servant because he breaks the bones of Thor's goats, making it impossible to resurrect them after eating their flesh for sustenance.

That one's a million times cooler than any dumbass Bible story, but is non-violent, too.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-11-09 12:05am

wolveraptor wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:To all the people who want to tell their children Greek and Nordic tales, be warned. They aren't really age appropriate.
And the Bible is?
Well, at least the Bible has a few stories that are somewhat interesting without violence or sex.

Such as? Let's name the key stories:

Genesis: God curses mankind to death and suffering for eating an apple.

The Flood: God kills women, children, babies, etc. He doesn't even really bother explaining why, but apparently, they all deserved it.

Exodus: God kills the babies of Egypt, the soldiers of Egypt, and lots of other people, so the Jews can go free. Then the Jews travel for 40 years through the desert, during which they repeatedly say bad things about God for this "40 years in the desert" shit. Naturally, he kills anybody with a big mouth.

David and Goliath: David kills Goliath, then goes on a bloody rampage through the entire region. Eventually gets horny and kills some poor guy so he can rape his wife. God takes time out from smiting people who gather wood on Sundays to forgive him this minor crime.

Samson: Samson kills countless people, gets betrayed, dies.

The Good Samaritan: a bunch of robbers beat the shit out of some guy and leave him dying on the roadway. A Good Samaritan comes along and helps him. For some reason, this is supposed to be compatible with a worldview where you are saved by grace, not works.

Sorry, but most of the well-known stories from the Bible involve death, hate, and destruction, often on a massive scale.

I can't really think of a kickass Norse myth that doesn't have people slicing each other's heads off or something equally awesome. There are isolated segments of such, but no real complete parables.

I'd just stick to Tolkien for young kids, leaving the kickass Norse stuff for when they're a little older (7 maybe?)

Tolkien? Tolkien is devoid of killing?

Comando293 · Post by **Comando293** » 2005-11-09 12:14am

Darth Wong wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:I can't really think of a kickass Norse myth that doesn't have people slicing each other's heads off or something equally awesome. There are isolated segments of such, but no real complete parables.

I'd just stick to Tolkien for young kids, leaving the kickass Norse stuff for when they're a little older (7 maybe?)
Tolkien? Tolkien is devoid of killing?

How the heck is Tolkien devoid of killing?

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2005-11-09 12:18am

Darth Wong wrote:
I'd just stick to Tolkien for young kids, leaving the kickass Norse stuff for when they're a little older (7 maybe?)
Tolkien? Tolkien is devoid of killing?

Tolkien stylizes killing a lot. Norse myths tend to be more graphic about it.

If Tolkien has to deal with a big wolf, he'd have someone stab the wolf with a spear or throw flaming pinecones at it. A Norse myth has a giant wolf being killed by tearing its jaws apart and rending it in two, after the wolf ate Odin. That's badass, and I can get a much more vivid picture in my mind than I ever could with The Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Would you teach your children religion?

Will you teach a religion to your children in any degree?

Re: Would you teach your children religion?