Goliath Found

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-11-12 07:43am

Finding Said to Boost Proof of Goliath

JERUSALEM (AP) - Archaeologists digging at the purported biblical home of Goliath have unearthed a shard of pottery bearing an inscription of the Philistine's name, a find they claimed lends historical credence to the Bible's tale of David's battle with the giant.

While the discovery is not definitive evidence of Goliath's existence, it does support the Bible's depiction of life at the time the battle was supposed to have occurred, said Dr. Aren Maeir, a professor at Bar-Ilan University and director of the excavation.

``What this means is that at the time there were people there named Goliath,'' he said. ``It shows us that David and Goliath's story reflects the cultural reality of the time.'' In the story, David slew Goliath with a slingshot.

Some scholars assert the story of David slaying the giant Goliath is a myth written down hundreds of years later. Maeir said finding the scraps lends historical credence to the biblical story.

The shard dates back to around 950 B.C., within 70 years of when biblical chronology asserts David squared off against Goliath, making it the oldest Philistine inscription ever found, the archaeologists said.

Scientists made the discovery at Tel es-Safi, a dig site in southern Israel thought to be to be the location of the Philistine city of Gath.

11/11/05 09:50

Opinions?

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2005-11-12 08:01am

Before I even check into this story, I'll remind you that if historical details of our civilization were wiped out, in three thousand years someone, somewhere will unearth thousands of little black statuettes bearing the inscription "Darth Vader".

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-11-12 08:13am

You should always be skeptical of biblical archaeology in the Middle East. Most of it comes with an agenda.

Essentially, all they've done is prove that the name "Goliath" existed in the area at around the time - give or take a century - that the story supposedly took place. Everything else - "OMG GOLAITH ECXISTED !" - is fluff to get attention.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-11-12 09:15am

That agenda is a hard thing to deal with.
I mean are we really sure that Troy ever really existed. We have a city but how many other cities were around that area at the same time.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-11-12 09:33am

Kitsune wrote:That agenda is a hard thing to deal with.
I mean are we really sure that Troy ever really existed. We have a city but how many other cities were around that area at the same time.

I believe that was pretty much settled - Schliemann found several occupation layers which correspond with a cycle of construction and destruction that can be expected for a city in the region. The problem is figuring out which layer(s) correspond with the mythical war - or, more likely, series of skirmishes - with Greece.

The main agenda I was talking about was the dated method of starting with biblical accounts and cherrypicking archaeological evidence to back them up. This should've died out a century ago, but unfortunately some people still insist on using archaeology to prove the bible, leading to news stories like this one. Either the researcher is truly of this school of thought, or he's fishing for a bigger budget through spectacular headlines.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-11-12 10:48am

Also, please recall the "jesus ossuary" that was found to be a total fake recently. I'm not saying this pottery fragment is fake, but there are people who'd do that.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-11-12 11:40am

LadyTevar wrote:Also, please recall the "jesus ossuary" that was found to be a total fake recently. I'm not saying this pottery fragment is fake, but there are people who'd do that.

Well, people are still arguing about the Ossuary and likely will be for the next 200 years. I believe that there are still people who believe the shroud of turin is real as well

I am wondering if there are any good sources on specific cases of "Biblical Archeologist" creating evidence or other related deceptions.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-11-12 01:24pm

The shard dates back to around 950 B.C., within 70 years of when biblical chronology asserts David squared off against Goliath, making it the oldest Philistine inscription ever found, the archaeologists said.

I wonder what method of dating was used. One of the many methods that would also demonstrate that Bible Creationism is ridiculous and impossible?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-11-12 02:21pm

Keep in mind that the sort of David fighting Goliath isn't something that is historically implausible. The details of the story are pretty standard.

-The Philistines were fighting Judea, something that we did know happened.

-The Philistines met the Judeans in battle and one of their heros, Goliath, marched up and down the battle line on his side, calling out the Judeans hugest hero to fight him. We may not have evidence that this happened, but it wouldn't be something unusual. The Philistines were originally Greek and having your biggest hero call out someone on the opposing line to a fight is a proud ancient Greek tradition, because it gives your troops alot of morale and demoralizes the enemy.

-Saul, who'd be the Judean hero, didn't want a piece of Goliath, but his charioteer/bard David steps up. David wangs Goliath in the head with a rock (something potentially lethal with a good sling), grabs Goliaths sword while he's trashing on the ground, and beheads him.

None of that is all that hugely unrealistic. The Bible calls Goliath a "giant", but a giant at the time could be a man who's six feet tall.

I don't have any trouble swallowing that it could have happened, as it's not hugely weird by the bibles standards.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2005-11-12 02:30pm

I'll remind you that if historical details of our civilization were wiped out, in three thousand years someone, somewhere will unearth thousands of little black statuettes bearing the inscription "Darth Vader".

No doubt of religious significance, and used in home shrines.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-11-12 03:26pm

Anguirus wrote:
I'll remind you that if historical details of our civilization were wiped out, in three thousand years someone, somewhere will unearth thousands of little black statuettes bearing the inscription "Darth Vader".
No doubt of religious significance, and used in home shrines.

*snickers* They'd think I worshiped Unicorns, then... there's enough of them in the house.

Edit: After a short discussion with Nitram, think of all the sextoys that are made from plastic, and how many of them might be dug up in the future....

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-11-12 03:56pm

LadyTevar wrote: Edit: After a short discussion with Nitram, think of all the sextoys that are made from plastic, and how many of them might be dug up in the future....

Which does bring up the question of what they were made of back in the day...

Though I seem to remember reading that the Greeks used to make offerings of bread phalli at various temples... and that they had various ribald jokes about how women would use them, and end up with bits of soggy bread inside...

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-11-12 04:02pm

Which does bring up the question of what they were made of back in the day...

26th millennium BC, 20cm long, 3 cm wide. Found in Germany, believed to be an actual sex toy.

Link

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2005-11-12 04:07pm

Three centimeters! Didn't take much back then, eh?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-11-12 04:11pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Three centimeters! Didn't take much back then, eh?

Average height back then was, IIRC, about 5'6". Other body parts must've scaled accordingly

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-11-12 04:45pm

Either that, or it's a sepository

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-11-12 05:06pm

Too much to ask to see if DNA can be gotton off it

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-11-12 05:44pm

I was digging around in a box of junk from the 1950's when I found a picture of Superman. Clearly Superman really existed in the 1950's.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2005-11-12 05:54pm

LadyTevar wrote:Also, please recall the "jesus ossuary" that was found to be a total fake recently. I'm not saying this pottery fragment is fake, but there are people who'd do that.

If I recall, the ossuary was genuine and of the correct time frame - it was the inscription that was bogus.

Basically, we're getting better quality fakes these days.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2005-11-12 05:56pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
LadyTevar wrote: Edit: After a short discussion with Nitram, think of all the sextoys that are made from plastic, and how many of them might be dug up in the future....
Which does bring up the question of what they were made of back in the day...

Wood, stone, horn, precious metals, stuffed leather, pottery... pretty damn near everything that could hold the proper shape. Sort of like today, but with just a couple fewer options.

Archeologists dig those up all the time. But do they show them to the public? Heck no! Damn shame, too - would certainly the interest of young people in digging up old stuff, wouldn't it?

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » 2005-11-12 06:25pm

LordShaithis wrote:I was digging around in a box of junk from the 1950's when I found a picture of Superman. Clearly Superman really existed in the 1950's.

RAR!!! Da pwoof that Superman will be our lord and savior!! Complete with pope cap!

Broomstick wrote:Archeologists dig those up all the time. But do they show them to the public? Heck no! Damn shame, too - would certainly the interest of young people in digging up old stuff, wouldn't it?

"Think that archeology is just about digging up old dolls and arrowheads? GUESS AGAIN!!"

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-11-12 06:32pm

Wyrm wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Archeologists dig those up all the time. But do they show them to the public? Heck no! Damn shame, too - would certainly the interest of young people in digging up old stuff, wouldn't it?
"Think that archeology is just about digging up old dolls and arrowheads? GUESS AGAIN!!"

That would explain how Indiana Jones is such a woman-magnet....

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-11-12 11:00pm

LadyTevar wrote:Also, please recall the "jesus ossuary" that was found to be a total fake recently. I'm not saying this pottery fragment is fake, but there are people who'd do that.

The ossuary isn't a total fake; only a part of the inscription was fake.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-11-13 11:44am

Elheru Aran wrote:
LadyTevar wrote: Edit: After a short discussion with Nitram, think of all the sextoys that are made from plastic, and how many of them might be dug up in the future....
Which does bring up the question of what they were made of back in the day...

Though I seem to remember reading that the Greeks used to make offerings of bread phalli at various temples... and that they had various ribald jokes about how women would use them, and end up with bits of soggy bread inside...

And remember, one the the Lares and Pentates of the Roman household was symbolized by a great big tonker displayed prominantly in many Pompellian households.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-11-13 12:30pm

Bounty wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Three centimeters! Didn't take much back then, eh?
Average height back then was, IIRC, about 5'6". Other body parts must've scaled accordingly

Damn, I'd be a sex god if I had a time machine!