brianeyci wrote:You can obviously see the strawmen.
"Evolution creates something from nothing." or "Evolution turns the dead into the living."
I wonder where this came from. Even Pokemon and Ninja Turtle "evolution" don't turn dead things into living.
Brian
Well, there's one evolution I can think of that turns a living Pokemon into an undead...that ninja cicada thing...
Heretic! I recognize Squirtle, Charzard, Bulbasaur and the original 150 as the only pokemen around, none of that crystal bullshit!
Besides they didn't get it from that. Arguing against a strawman is stupid. I'm beginning to think the best way to start a debate with a creationist is to ask them first, "what do you think evolution is?"
Wyrm wrote:Awesomest-Tard was trying to say 2nd Law of Thermodynamics -> no increase in "complexity" because the system is closed. When we show that the system is NOT closed (and hence the 2nd Law doesn't apply in this case), he falls back on the fact that sunlight can't resurrected dead things, a property sunlight was never claimed to have in the first place, and a property unnecessary to the formulation of evolution.
Remember, Evolution != Voodoo.
Well, I'll give him that; I didn't see that one coming. The Sun doesn't count as an outside energy source, because it can't resurrect dead plants. I don't think he had any idea what he was talking about in the first place
Dooey Jo wrote:You must be using a bad browser
Firefox?
That's what I'm using and I get no pop-ups. Your Firefox must be bad...
"Nippon ichi, bitches! Boing-boing." Mai smote the demonic fires of heck...
brianeyci wrote: I'm beginning to think the best way to start a debate with a creationist is to ask them first, "what do you think evolution is?"
Brian
I completely agree with you; then, instead of it being a debate, you can turn it into education, reasonably asking them to go along with you and see what evolution actually says so they understand what it says; after all, there's no point in arguing against something if you don't know what it actually is, is there?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
Best damn rapper EVAR!!!1 wrote: Creationists always try to use the second law,
to disprove evolution, but their theory has a flaw.
The second law is quite precise about where it applies,
only in a closed system must the entropy count rise.
The earth's not a closed system' it's powered by the sun,
so fuck the damn creationists, Doomsday get my gun!
That, in a nutshell, is what entropy's about,
you're now down with a discount.
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:"God put it there to tempt us.
No no no. Trickery and deceit is the way of satan. God only does things like plagues, floods or genocide. Which is ok because He is so wise.
I will pray for you
If trickery is the work of satan, then all the devices God put up to trick us into thinking the universe has lingered since quite a long time before November 14th, 4004 BC (which is significant only in that is 6009 years ago as of my post) must actually be the work of satan. That must mean that satan was the actual creator of the universe.
wilfulton wrote:
If trickery is the work of satan, then all the devices God put up to trick us into thinking the universe has lingered since quite a long time before November 14th, 4004 BC (which is significant only in that is 6009 years ago as of my post) must actually be the work of satan. That must mean that satan was the actual creator of the universe.
Hmm....must of been one busy little fallen angel.
(ain't contradictions a bitch?)
That sounds like a good story idea- God as an Usurper.
Hahaha that initial post cracked me up.. "so near and yet so far", indeed.
Too bad as soon as he almost made the breakthrough to reality, he stonewalled himself, shut his logical processes off and went all fundie again. A shame.
MRDOD wrote:That sounds like a good story idea- God as an Usurper.
I think there's some schools of Satanism where Lucifer created everything, and his main man Yahweh (however you spell it) betrayed and imprisoned him for the purpose of perverting creation and torturing its inhabitants.
That's why Yahweh's Ten Commandments restrict our freedom and deprive us of the pleasures we've been designed to feel. The whole middle-eastern religion creation thing is crock, but I enjoyed the whole god/devil thing the way I enjoy a good fantasy novel.
It's been a while ago since I read that, correct me if I got the satanic thingy wrong somewhere.
"..history has shown the best defense against heavy cavalry are pikemen, so aircraft should mount lances on their noses and fly in tight squares to fend off bombers". - RedImperator
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
MRDOD wrote:
That sounds like a good story idea- God as an Usurper.
Have been working on it, actually, kind of a Doom-esque setting, the armies of hell spill over onto earth, well, turns out the armies of hell are actually pawns of heaven, trying to twist creation to their own will. It is stopped when a certain fallen angel sides with the lord of the demon world, and the two fight the big bad guy at the end.
It's something I do off and on, and really haven't gotten very far. My current fascination is outer space mercenaries, it moves to solar warlords, Hel-karans, and then back to the world of Sephia (which is a medieval setting with plenty of religious zealots trying to kill each other over whose imaginary friend is better, and naturally the forces of heaven and hell are yanking strings at their lustful pleasure). When I get back to it, there will be hell to pay.
Cykeisme wrote:
That's why Yahweh's Ten Commandments restrict our freedom and deprive us of the pleasures we've been designed to feel. The whole middle-eastern religion creation thing is crock, but I enjoyed the whole god/devil thing the way I enjoy a good fantasy novel.
It's been a while ago since I read that, correct me if I got the satanic thingy wrong somewhere.
Wasn't there a fantasy story of some sort which talks about Satan's rebellion from his point of view, where God is the shown to be the antagonist. The obvious sad thing about that story is that Satan who is supposedly potrayed reasonably in a positive light lost.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Cykeisme wrote:
That's why Yahweh's Ten Commandments restrict our freedom and deprive us of the pleasures we've been designed to feel. The whole middle-eastern religion creation thing is crock, but I enjoyed the whole god/devil thing the way I enjoy a good fantasy novel.
It's been a while ago since I read that, correct me if I got the satanic thingy wrong somewhere.
Wasn't there a fantasy story of some sort which talks about Satan's rebellion from his point of view, where God is the shown to be the antagonist. The obvious sad thing about that story is that Satan who is supposedly potrayed reasonably in a positive light lost.
To Reign in Hell by Steven Brust ? It has Lucifer and Satan as seperate beings, which allows Lucifer to use the line "Get thee behind me, Satan".
Or perhaps the relation between Heaven and Hell is sort of like Republic/Separatists. Meh, didn't think that one through. Anyone want to do it for me?
"..history has shown the best defense against heavy cavalry are pikemen, so aircraft should mount lances on their noses and fly in tight squares to fend off bombers". - RedImperator
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
mr friendly guy wrote:Wasn't there a fantasy story of some sort which talks about Satan's rebellion from his point of view, where God is the shown to be the antagonist. The obvious sad thing about that story is that Satan who is supposedly potrayed reasonably in a positive light lost.
The Golden Compass and its sequels, IIRC, focus on spiritual warfare from the rebellion's point of view. In those books, God is a super-angel who took control, but now he's just old, gibbering, and senile, and Metatron has usurped God's spot.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
brianeyci wrote: I'm beginning to think the best way to start a debate with a creationist is to ask them first, "what do you think evolution is?"
Brian
I completely agree with you; then, instead of it being a debate, you can turn it into education, reasonably asking them to go along with you and see what evolution actually says so they understand what it says; after all, there's no point in arguing against something if you don't know what it actually is, is there?
I've tried this. They simply ignore your definition of evolution, and keep making arguments which assume the truth of their definition. Even if you can show them that their definition is wrong and they admit it's wrong, they will continue using arguments which presume its validity. I've seen this firsthand many times.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Well, I'll give him that; I didn't see that one coming. The Sun doesn't count as an outside energy source, because it can't resurrect dead plants. I don't think he had any idea what he was talking about in the first place 
