007 North Korea vs. USA

[Jim Raynor]

Die Another Day SPOILERS









How would a war between North Korea and the United States turn out if Zao was never captured and traded for Bond? In addition to Icarus, assume that the North Koreans have the 1 or 2 nuclear devices that they're suspected of having. North Korean objectives are to reunite all of Korea and remove any US forces from the region, while the Americans have to halt their invasion and take out Icarus.

[Kuja]

The US launches dozens of nukes to take out Icarus. It can't move quickly enough to stop all of them. The US then mops the floor with NK.

[Alyeska]

Easy win for the US. Hell, right now North Korea is in such pathetic shape that the South Korean Airforce vastly outnumbers the North, and has a major technological advantage. The South has nearly as many soldiers but with vastly increased technology like the M1A2 main battle tank. They would have creamed the North regardless of the few "Toys" that the North had in the movie. Hell, that DU rifle was about as powerful as your average 40mm grenade.

[Sea Skimmer]

One missile into the An-124, Icarus neutralized. North Korea would be forced to launch a primarily infantry attack, while they have nearly 2,500 tanks none are better then a T-62 and they don't have sufficient fuel to keep them moving. Clearing one narrow lane though the minefields wont do shit, that path was so narrow a single 155 burst would throw lethal fragments clear across it. I doubt they'd get more then 5-7 miles before being halted. ROK and US losses, maybe 20,000 total in a war that could easily result in the total collapse of the North.

[Master of Ossus]

The North Korea from "Die Another Day" actually seemed considerably more powerful than the one in real life. It had evidently developed weapons and vehicles that were far more advanced than the ones they actually have (nearly recoil-less tank-busting weapons, for example), and did not appear to be in any monetary difficulties. It still had a large, and apparently well-maintained standing army. That being said, I think that the United States and its allies would still win, but it would be a much closer battle than what would actually happen if the North Koreans were to invade South Korea in real life, with Icarus and some other weapons.

[TrailerParkJawa]

The NK's would fail. The Icarus can be everywhere all the time so its not all that usefull. Besides, I would not be surprised if there is some sort of useable anti-sattelite weapon out there.

Also, in a situation like that the NK's are a threat to the world, so Japan, Russian and mabye even China would want to help contain the NK's. Not too mention the Australians, Britain, etc.

[Master of Ossus]

The NK's would fail. The Icarus can be everywhere all the time so its not all that usefull. Besides, I would not be surprised if there is some sort of useable anti-sattelite weapon out there.

In "Die Another Day," the Americans had a missile similar to a Tomahawk in size that could be fired from a ship and reach orbit in seconds.

[Alyeska]

The Russians had "Killer Sats" designed to close range with US Satellites and smash into them. They can easily take down Icarus. That or the US can launch a dozen ASATs at once.

[TrailerParkJawa]

In "Die Another Day," the Americans had a missile similar to a Tomahawk in size that could be fired from a ship and reach orbit in seconds.

I saw the movie, I thinking more along the lines of something like a ASAT or something already in orbit.

I dont think something that small could reach orbit from sea level. It would have made more sense if it was dropped from a high flying B-52 or F-15.

[Sea Skimmer]

In "Die Another Day," the Americans had a missile similar to a Tomahawk in size that could be fired from a ship and reach orbit in seconds.

I saw the movie, I thinking more along the lines of something like a ASAT or something already in orbit.

I dont think something that small could reach orbit from sea level. It would have made more sense if it was dropped from a high flying B-52 or F-15.

Someone who does the Bond special effects work like Harpoon Canisters and launches. We'd now had two different missiles fired from them in three movies, neither a Harpoon though in Tomorrow Never does it looks like what initially flew out was indeed a Harpoon. I believe they used real footage for the launch though.

Hell they even got the shape of the ASATs correct yet they can't have it correctly launched from an F-15!?

[TrailerParkJawa]

Someone who does the Bond special effects work like Harpoon Canisters and launches. We'd now had two different missiles fired from them in three movies, neither a Harpoon though in Tomorrow Never does it looks like what initially flew out was indeed a Harpoon. I believe they used real footage for the launch though.

Hell they even got the shape of the ASATs correct yet they can't have it correctly launched from an F-15!?

Mabye its a new Bond Brain Bug. All missiles of any type, Tomahawk, Harpoon, ASAT, Penguin, etc, are all launched from a Harpoon Canister.

[Jim Raynor]

I agree that the US, ROK, Japan, and other allied nations would most likely still win it, however some of the dialogue from the movie implies that it won't be so easy. I do realize that it's only dialogue and is therefore higly suspect. When General Moon tries convince his son to stop the attack because the Americans will use nukes, Gustav Graves/Col. Moon states that Icarus will "swat them out of the sky like flies." He was also confident that he could crush Japan. However, based on the time it took Icarus to stop one missile, it doesn't seem like it could repel a dozen missiles or more launched simultaneously. So can Icarus do more than just what it did on screen and stop nuclear and ASAT strikes, or is Moon boasting out of his ass?

[TrailerParkJawa]

So can Icarus do more than just what it did on screen and stop nuclear and ASAT strikes, or is Moon boasting out of his ass?

We saw it stop a single missile, judging by how long it took to engage that missile I dont see how it could stop a swarm. Even if the Icarus was faster and more capable, it could not stop everything.

It just cant be everywhere at once. Dont forget we can drop nukes in other ways. ( cruise missile, sub launched, and gravity bomb )

The would also have to contend with a possible nuking by Russia or China too.

I think its less Moon boasting out his ass, than someone never giving the plot much thought beyond the single ASAT shoot down.

[Oberleutnant]

The South has nearly as many soldiers but with vastly increased technology like the M1A2 main battle tank.

Sorry for nitpicking, but the South Koreans don't use Abrams. They have their own K-1 MBT.


BTW, was "Die Another Day" any better than the other horrible Brosnan Bonds?

[Alyeska]

The South has nearly as many soldiers but with vastly increased technology like the M1A2 main battle tank.

Sorry for nitpicking, but the South Koreans don't use Abrams. They have their own K-1 MBT.


BTW, was "Die Another Day" any better than the other horrible Brosnan Bonds?

Hmm, I thought they had Abrams as well. How well does their K-1 stack up to the Abrams?

[Kuja]

BTW, was "Die Another Day" any better than the other horrible Brosnan Bonds?

It was pretty damn good.

[Admiral Valdemar]

In "Die Another Day," the Americans had a missile similar to a Tomahawk in size that could be fired from a ship and reach orbit in seconds.

I saw the movie, I thinking more along the lines of something like a ASAT or something already in orbit.

I dont think something that small could reach orbit from sea level. It would have made more sense if it was dropped from a high flying B-52 or F-15.

Actually it was reused footage from a RN vessel that was also used in TND. One helluva missile that though! Falco simply mentioned that hitting the world's biggest mirror would be bad for the superstitious, he never said it was a US ship and it looked like a Type-23 anyway.

I would've waited a while though, true the US and UK et al were getting ready for a final showdown which would be expected, so I'd use yet more cash to finance additional mirror sats of a slightly smaller and more agile ability to be dotted around like a constellation. This could help shoot down multiple warhead attacks by reflecting off Icarus' main beam. So that's nukes out of the way.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The South has nearly as many soldiers but with vastly increased technology like the M1A2 main battle tank.

Sorry for nitpicking, but the South Koreans don't use Abrams. They have their own K-1 MBT.


BTW, was "Die Another Day" any better than the other horrible Brosnan Bonds?

Sorry, the other Brosnan films are actually damn good, the only weak one was TWINE probably due to being too realistic in plot but the precredit sequence was awesome.

GoldenEye is considered Brosnan's best because of what he had to do, bring Bond up again in a world where spies like him were frowned upon by his own side.

[Admiral Valdemar]

So can Icarus do more than just what it did on screen and stop nuclear and ASAT strikes, or is Moon boasting out of his ass?

We saw it stop a single missile, judging by how long it took to engage that missile I dont see how it could stop a swarm. Even if the Icarus was faster and more capable, it could not stop everything.

It just cant be everywhere at once. Dont forget we can drop nukes in other ways. ( cruise missile, sub launched, and gravity bomb )

The would also have to contend with a possible nuking by Russia or China too.

I think its less Moon boasting out his ass, than someone never giving the plot much thought beyond the single ASAT shoot down.

I don't think bombers would be a good idea considering what Icarus can do, and no, I don't think the AN-124 flew through the beam at full intensity given what it did to those glaciers and what NASA says space mirrors can do (far more effective than a orbital laser or particle beam which needs power).

Like I said, multiple sats would help defend it, have those used to redirect the beam and split it to intercept many targets at once. There are only so many missile you can throw at one time.

If Gustav had done that instead of rushing in, then he could've mopped the whole S. Korea force up. Naval, aerial and ground battles would be pointless if all you had to do was use Icarus + the extra mirrors to vape them all.

[Vendetta]

BTW, was "Die Another Day" any better than the other horrible Brosnan Bonds?

Yes, it was like the really old school Bond movies, with a hugely implausible and exceedingly silly plot.

It also had a Proper Bond Car™

And more explosions than I've seen in any other movie. Ever.

[Joe]

What I didn't understand was why the U.S. couldn't just launch hundreds of missles from all around the world at the Icarus satellite. I don't think it could blow hundreds of missles out of the sky coming at it simultaneously from many different directions.

I also loved how the Icarus satellite was a complete take-off of the machine from Diamonds are Forever. It was a good homage. Also, did anyone notice the jet pack in Q's lab? Same as the one in Thunderball.

[Sea Skimmer]

What I didn't understand was why the U.S. couldn't just launch hundreds of missles from all around the world at the Icarus satellite. I don't think it could blow hundreds of missles out of the sky coming at it simultaneously from many different directions.

I also loved how the Icarus satellite was a complete take-off of the machine from Diamonds are Forever. It was a good homage. Also, did anyone notice the jet pack in Q's lab? Same as the one in Thunderball.

EVERYTHING IN THAT ROOM WAS FROM OTHER BOND FILMS! THAT WAS THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, far more notable is that the suitcase Bond pops the knife out of is the first Bond Gadget ever shown on screen.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I also loved how the Icarus satellite was a complete take-off of the machine from Diamonds are Forever.

Didnt see that show, I thought Icarus was a copy of the Sol System in Akira.

Anyway, far more notable is that the suitcase Bond pops the knife out of is the first Bond Gadget ever shown on screen.

Did'nt catch that. I knew the gadgets were from previous films though.

I did like the ring that Q gave him. That was cool.

[Admiral Valdemar]

What I didn't understand was why the U.S. couldn't just launch hundreds of missles from all around the world at the Icarus satellite. I don't think it could blow hundreds of missles out of the sky coming at it simultaneously from many different directions.

I also loved how the Icarus satellite was a complete take-off of the machine from Diamonds are Forever. It was a good homage. Also, did anyone notice the jet pack in Q's lab? Same as the one in Thunderball.

Check IMDb on DAD and look at the bulletin boards for it (most active I've ever seen on that site). One thread has posts which highlight EVERY possible himage to the previous 19 films from musical pieces to gadgets and quotes.

I guess that's why DAD had another real diabolical plan, TND and TWINE were somewhat more realistic as was GE.

But like I said, Icarus should have had more, smaller mini-mirror sats to focus the solar beam on incoming targets thus negating the multi missile attack which was probably not possible for other reasons in the film (apart from a plot device).

[Master of Ossus]

BTW, was "Die Another Day" any better than the other horrible Brosnan Bonds?

I thought it was a cut below "Golden Eye," but I consider "Golden Eye" to be one of the best Bond films, so this new one ranks pretty highly. Maybe fifth or sixth?