SirNitram wrote:How about you quantify or quote any of that before making us deal with a bunch of 'maybes' and 'whatifs'.
I can jump in for him with quotes.
From the StarCraft manual, p. 54:
Thus, the Zerg swarms slowly made their way towards the burgeoning worlds of Humanity. The journey lasted for sixty years, but eventually the massive, extended Zerg Swarm reached the outskirts of the Terran Sector of Koprulu. Sending in a scouting Brood, the Overmind soon discovered that the Humans dwelt on over a dozen different worlds within the Sector. Seeding the atmosphere of the planet called Chau Sara with rudimentary Hive-spores, the Overmind began to unfold its master plan to enslave Humanity. The Hive-spores gradually drifted down to the surface of Chau Sara and saturated the ground with their denuding, alien toxins. Although the Human colonists had no idea that the Zerg had subtly infested the topsoil of their world, Zerg minions began to descend to the planet's surface and construct their bizarre structures an dHive clusters. Once the infestation of the colony was well underway, the Overmind sent its voracious children to the other nearby worlds. Insidious and elusive in their tasks, the agents of the Overmind soon infested the colonial worlds of Chau Sara, Mar Sara, Brontes, and Dylar IV, unnoticed by the denizens of those colonies.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
Ah, so the spores seed the ground with enough creep to set up structures right away instead of relying on central structures like hatcheries to generate it.
SirNitram wrote:Excuse me, yes. How fucking stupid are you that you think underground tunnels go through interstellar space? And don't quote game mechanics at me, or we're going to talk about how a UED battlecruiser is so weak a guy with a rifle with minimal recoil can knock it down.
Where did you get the idea they were underground tunnels? link?
SirNitram wrote:So it requires a brood in orbit, not a Gate too small for an Abrams.
Apparently, though whether or not you could send the spores in question through a gate is debatable. However, it's important, I think, to note the spores don't provide structures right off the bat; you have to send minions in to build the hatcheries, etc., so again we run into the control problems.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
SirNitram wrote:Excuse me, yes. How fucking stupid are you that you think underground tunnels go through interstellar space? And don't quote game mechanics at me, or we're going to talk about how a UED battlecruiser is so weak a guy with a rifle with minimal recoil can knock it down.
Where did you get the idea they were underground tunnels? link?
They're holes in the ground. Where's your evidence they are anything more? It's called Parsimony, you inbred, fanwanker git.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
2. Creep extended through gate; drones, larvae, et. al. are sent through.
3. Creep colonies started by drones. Larvae begin metamorphosing into Overlords.
Bam. Once those processes start, the Zerg can in principle establish a presence on the planet. The Creep colonies will sustain the Creep once the gate closes (same goes for Hatcheries), and Overlords will be present to control the broods.
Further, the denuding spores can be spread around even without this taking place. Once they get established, they'll destroy the planet's ecology by making it impossible for plants to grow.
The Goa'uld have no way to "vaccinate" the planet against this infection, and their agriculturalist slave populations will starve because their crops will consistently fail - if they even take root at all.
Also note that, if the Zerg can easily kill off a wide range of plant life which was formerly unknown to them, then they also have a mastery of genetics which would allow them to whip up some utterly devastating bioweapons (most known viruses can't even consistently kill all infected members of just one species). This is of course not observed in-game because the Zerg just overrun everything before such plagues could infect large parts of the Terran population, and because Terran military units have full NBC protecttion anyway.
The Zerg can make the Goa'uld's economy implode without even sending in troops.
So, Zerg will tumble a building crew through a gate, not get attacked at all, and somehow win. They won't address the Goa'uld having total space superiority.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
Well, the Zerg do number in the low billions and the Goa'uld iirc did not have all that many ships.
Plus, Jaffa just plain suck at ground combat. Sure a single staff blast will put a Zergling down, but there will be a lot of them, moving fast, and the Staff is semi-auto to boot.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
CaptainChewbacca wrote:So, Zerg will tumble a building crew through a gate, not get attacked at all, and somehow win. They won't address the Goa'uld having total space superiority.
To be fair to the Zerg, SG-1 always seems to go through gates, and gates seem to be always lightly defended. I think the Zerg could pull off establishing a base if they were careful enough.
I think the Zerg could take Gou'ald on the ground. The Terrans had automatic weapons, flamethrowers, missiles, artillery, grenades, and were still overrun. That's some pretty fucking tough carapace. There's a cinematic of a machine gun in a bunker shooting at an infested terran, and the infested terran just keeps running up to the bunker.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:So, Zerg will tumble a building crew through a gate, not get attacked at all, and somehow win. They won't address the Goa'uld having total space superiority.
To be fair to the Zerg, SG-1 always seems to go through gates, and gates seem to be always lightly defended. I think the Zerg could pull off establishing a base if they were careful enough.
I think the Zerg could take Gou'ald on the ground. The Terrans had automatic weapons, flamethrowers, missiles, artillery, grenades, and were still overrun. That's some pretty fucking tough carapace. There's a cinematic of a machine gun in a bunker shooting at an infested terran, and the infested terran just keeps running up to the bunker.
The space superiority kills it though.
Brian
If I remember the cinematic correctly, it's not full-auto fire; someone's taking potshots at the infested Terran.
And the only damn reason the Zerg managed to overrun the Terrans was deus ex machina. If you set up a good Terran three-bunker + siege tank + barracks chokepoint, NOTHING can get through on land.
You know, it occours to me that we know Anubis' reaction to an Aggressive Homogenizing Swarm entering the Galaxy: Go to T'kara, set Ancient weapon for 'organic life', fire through all Stargates. Problem solved. Mop up with his Supership.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
SirNitram wrote:Excuse me, yes. How fucking stupid are you that you think underground tunnels go through interstellar space? And don't quote game mechanics at me, or we're going to talk about how a UED battlecruiser is so weak a guy with a rifle with minimal recoil can knock it down.
Where did you get the idea they were underground tunnels? link?
They're holes in the ground. Where's your evidence they are anything more? It's called Parsimony, you inbred, fanwanker git.
Actually, the manual fluff implies that they're more:
Nydus Canal
The precise origin of the Nydus Canal is unknown, and the exact process of its operation is also a mystery. The initial canal entrance is created and then, when a suitable site is found, a sister entrance can be opened. The Canal then enables Zerg ground units to travel from one end to the other at extremely high speed regardless of intervening terrain. This enables multiple Hatcheries located across a large area to function as one unified nest, with Zerg warriors travelling from one combat zone to another quickly and efficiently.
So, they're not just simple holes, but they're also not teleporters either ("extremely high speed" still takes time). I doubt whoever wrote this intended for the Nydus Canals to be a form of interplanetary travel. Nydus Canals also can't be constructed unless there's Creep (NOT just a game mechanic, the fluff explains that only Hatcheries are genetically designed to function without it).
Matt Huang wrote:While the Zerg can assimilate and infest planets within a relatively short timeframe, their FTL capability is pretty appalling. Terran FTL drives clock in at about 2,000 c (the 30 year, 60k lightyear trips of both the original colony ships and the UED expeditionary fleet from Earth to the K. Sector), the Zerg are only marginally faster than this (they overtook the remnants of the UED expeditionary fleet within the K. Sector).
The first Terran FTL drive was that bad. However, the BW manual booklet claims that the UED has been observing the Koprulu colonists for generations. Since then, their FTL tech has gotten a lot better. The UED expedition wasn't sent out until the Protoss and Zerg showed up in SC, and the briefing for the first Terran mission in BW states that you've been in cryo-sleep for several months.
Matt Huang wrote:While the Zerg can assimilate and infest planets within a relatively short timeframe, their FTL capability is pretty appalling. Terran FTL drives clock in at about 2,000 c (the 30 year, 60k lightyear trips of both the original colony ships and the UED expeditionary fleet from Earth to the K. Sector), the Zerg are only marginally faster than this (they overtook the remnants of the UED expeditionary fleet within the K. Sector).
The first Terran FTL drive was that bad. However, the BW manual booklet claims that the UED has been observing the Koprulu colonists for generations. Since then, their FTL tech has gotten a lot better. The UED expedition wasn't sent out until the Protoss and Zerg showed up in SC, and the briefing for the first Terran mission in BW states that you've been in cryo-sleep for several months.
That's still far slower than SG drives. Asgard drives are orders of many magnitude faster, and I believe even Goa'uld drives are quicker, even at the beginning of the series. I'll need numbers to check that of course.
One thing bugs me. I played that game and wondered... why the hell does Earth have the exact same equipment of backwater splinter colonists?
Nephtys wrote:One thing bugs me. I played that game and wondered... why the hell does Earth have the exact same equipment of backwater splinter colonists?
That pissed me off too. Blizzard just got lazy and didn't want to create a new race. Still, they could have done the UED correctly just by representing them with a few "hero" units (new capship, different looking troopers, etc.), with the rest of the Terran forces in the game being colonists who joined their cause.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:So, Zerg will tumble a building crew through a gate, not get attacked at all, and somehow win. They won't address the Goa'uld having total space superiority.
To be fair to the Zerg, SG-1 always seems to go through gates, and gates seem to be always lightly defended. I think the Zerg could pull off establishing a base if they were careful enough.
Again, we run into the problem of losing control over the units once they're through the gate.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
Folks are arguing that you can zergling-rush for 38 minutes, clear a space on the other side, extend creep THROUGH the wormhole, and plant a creep colony or hatchery before the wormhole disengages.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
CaptainChewbacca wrote:extend creep THROUGH the wormhole
What the fuck? Doesn't a stargate only transport discrete objects?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:extend creep THROUGH the wormhole
What the fuck? Doesn't a stargate only transport discrete objects?
Yup. Anything that enters the stargate has to be fully dematerialized before transmission, otherwise, the gate will stay open for as long as possible before turning off. Everything inside the event horizion would be lost, anything partially in the event horizon gets cut off.
That tidbit courtesy of Stargate Atlantis 1x04: 38 Minutes.
There is always Kerrigan. If the Zerg manage to get her through, and the other side is clear (or, at least, anyone who is there doesn't know where she is) they could probably send through a "rush" of Hydralisks and Zerglings, which might, depending on the location of the gate, give them enough time to start bringing in drones and spore layers.
SirNitram wrote:They're holes in the ground. Where's your evidence they are anything more? It's called Parsimony, you inbred, fanwanker git
I'm still waiting for you to back this up. You made the assumption now I would like you to give me a offical source that confirms it.
SirNitram wrote:Among other things, it refers to 'terrain'. Void is not terrain. It is the specific absense of such.
No fuckface, among other things, it says 'units to travel from one end to the other at extremely high speed regardless of'. Unless you have a source that confirms it goes through the terrian
SirNitram wrote:You know, it occours to me that we know Anubis' reaction to an Aggressive Homogenizing Swarm entering the Galaxy: Go to T'kara, set Ancient weapon for 'organic life', fire through all Stargates. Problem solved. Mop up with his Supership.
Unfortunatly, the Dakara Superweapon is within Baal's Territory generally guarded by a fleet of Ha'taks. For all his Ripoffs of Anchent Technology, Anubis had only a small number of warships at his command.
Zor
HAIL ZOR!WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL Terran Sphere The Art of Zor
