Zerg in the Stargateverse

[brianeyci]

If I remember the cinematic correctly, it's not full-auto fire; someone's taking potshots at the infested Terran.

You're right. It's a marine poking out his gun, not an HMG.

And the only damn reason the Zerg managed to overrun the Terrans was deus ex machina. If you set up a good Terran three-bunker + siege tank + barracks chokepoint, NOTHING can get through on land.

That doesn't fly. The Terrans have flamethrowers, artillery, mini-missiles from a battlecrusier that can home in on a Zergling and kill it, and an implied cold fusion nuke from the cinematic with the abandoned station. Obviously somehow they can get through because that's the plot, they do get through. It's not a dues ex, it's just bio-wanking (that's pretty bad but it's not dues ex). I also wasn't aware we saw a siege tank, we see that artillery shooting a dragoon but that wasn't a siege tank. And why three bunkers?

Brian

[Lancer]

They're holes in the ground. Where's your evidence they are anything more? It's called Parsimony, you inbred, fanwanker git

I'm still waiting for you to back this up. You made the assumption now I would like you to give me a offical source that confirms it.

Burden of proof is on you to prove that they are more than an organic tunnel network. And game mechanics are not admissible.

Among other things, it refers to 'terrain'. Void is not terrain. It is the specific absense of such.

No fuckface, among other things, it says 'units to travel from one end to the other at extremely high speed regardless of'. Unless you have a source that confirms it goes through the terrian

Nydus Canal
The precise origin of the Nydus Canal is unknown, and the exact process of its operation is also a mystery. The initial canal entrance is created and then, when a suitable site is found, a sister entrance can be opened. The Canal then enables Zerg ground units to travel from one end to the other at extremely high speed regardless of intervening terrain. This enables multiple Hatcheries located across a large area to function as one unified nest, with Zerg warriors travelling from one combat zone to another quickly and efficiently.

[Noble Ire]

Burden of proof is on you to prove that they are more than an organic tunnel network. And game mechanics are not admissible.

Doesn't the manual indicate as much? "Walking through an organic tunnel" isn't exactly "the exact process of its operation is also a mystery."

[Guardsman Bass]

While the Zerg can assimilate and infest planets within a relatively short timeframe, their FTL capability is pretty appalling. Terran FTL drives clock in at about 2,000 c (the 30 year, 60k lightyear trips of both the original colony ships and the UED expeditionary fleet from Earth to the K. Sector), the Zerg are only marginally faster than this (they overtook the remnants of the UED expeditionary fleet within the K. Sector).

The first Terran FTL drive was that bad. However, the BW manual booklet claims that the UED has been observing the Koprulu colonists for generations. Since then, their FTL tech has gotten a lot better. The UED expedition wasn't sent out until the Protoss and Zerg showed up in SC, and the briefing for the first Terran mission in BW states that you've been in cryo-sleep for several months.

Actually, the manual stated that the guidance systems in the lead ship out of the Four Original Colony Ships shut down somehow, basically causing the ships to barrel blindly through space for 30 years until they emerged at the edge of the system with their "drives destroyed and life support batteries nearly exhausted." In other words, the UED somehow knew the location of the colonies, and went straight to them, whereas it is implied that the path of the original colony ships was less than linear.

[Lancer]

The manual has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's the same source that puts Marine rifles as hypersonic gauss weapons when cutscenes show them to be conventional firearms.

[Srynerson]

While I agree fully that the SG-verse would quickly stop a Zerg invasion, couldn't the Zerg minimize the feral problem (on sparsely inhabited worlds only) by lobbing a few eggs that had already been set to produce overlords through a gate along with drones, zerglings, etc.? If the locals don't find and destroy all the drones and eggs before the eggs hatch, then the overlords will be able to organize the surviving drones. The eggs don't appear to need any care after they've been set. (This assumes the overlords can operate without cerebrates being present on the same world. I apologize if that is incorrect.)

PLEASE NOTE: The above strategy is obviously of no value on densely populated worlds or worlds where the gates are under regular supervision. I am not attempting to suggest that the above strategy could result in any sort of successful large scale invasion.

[Chris OFarrell]

Folks are arguing that you can zergling-rush for 38 minutes, clear a space on the other side, extend creep THROUGH the wormhole, and plant a creep colony or hatchery before the wormhole disengages.

Is there even any proof that the Zerg psi influence of the overmind CAN be transmitted through a wormhole?

[Guardsman Bass]

The manual has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's the same source that puts Marine rifles as hypersonic gauss weapons when cutscenes show them to be conventional firearms.

We don't have any numbers on what 'hypersonic rifle' speeds would be in the Starcraftverse; they could just be conventional fire arms. Then again, we don't have any numbers on how tough zerg exoskeletons or protoss shields are.

On a sidenote, I remember something that may actually make it possible to introduce a bit of quantification (or at least a lower limit as such) to a Starcraft unit! Here it is:

During the Protoss campaign on original Starcraft, there is a cinematic where a Terran encampment on Char spots a broken, limping Dragoon, and it is destroyed under the Sergeant's orders. A few moments later, a dragoon materializes just in front of the Sergeant, and fires a shot right through him.
Since the sergeant did not appear to be wearing any armor that might effect the calculations, you could at least, from looking at how the Sergeant was disintegrated, put a bottom limit on how powerful a Dragoon's shot is.

[Noble Ire]

The manual has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's the same source that puts Marine rifles as hypersonic gauss weapons when cutscenes show them to be conventional firearms.

I'm assuming then that you have similar evidence that indicates that Nydus canals are, in fact, just holes in the ground?

Is there even any proof that the Zerg psi influence of the overmind CAN be transmitted through a wormhole?

Now that I think about it, there may be. Were the Zerg who followed the Aiur refugees through warp gate to Shakuras under a Celebrate's control? They didn't seem feral.

[Guardsman Bass]

Now that I think about it, there may be. Were the Zerg who followed the Aiur refugees through warp gate to Shakuras under a Celebrate's control? They didn't seem feral.

Since we see two cerebrates the next mission, it's possible that by that time they had already sent the cerebrates through. Then again, the second mission is supposed to take place only hours after the survivors start going through the Warp Gate. Zerg telepathic control is kind of tricky to understand, since the effect of distance on it is questionable.

[Molyneux]

While I agree fully that the SG-verse would quickly stop a Zerg invasion, couldn't the Zerg minimize the feral problem (on sparsely inhabited worlds only) by lobbing a few eggs that had already been set to produce overlords through a gate along with drones, zerglings, etc.? If the locals don't find and destroy all the drones and eggs before the eggs hatch, then the overlords will be able to organize the surviving drones. The eggs don't appear to need any care after they've been set. (This assumes the overlords can operate without cerebrates being present on the same world. I apologize if that is incorrect.)

PLEASE NOTE: The above strategy is obviously of no value on densely populated worlds or worlds where the gates are under regular supervision. I am not attempting to suggest that the above strategy could result in any sort of successful large scale invasion.

I think that an egg cannot be safely moved after it's been fertilized; at least, there's no way that I'm aware of by which you can move an egg in-game before it hatches.

[Shroom Man 777]

If the Overlords aren't near Cerebrates, won't they also go dumb?

[Surlethe]

I think that an egg cannot be safely moved after it's been fertilized; at least, there's no way that I'm aware of by which you can move an egg in-game before it hatches.

In-game, there's no way; but the pupal stage should be movable with enough force, since it doesn't require any creep to nourish it (e.g., hydralisks mutating into lurkers).

---

This paragraph from the manual may illuminate some points on Overlords and psionic control; the manual, p. 55:

The Zerg Overmind maintains a constant psionic link with its servants, but in order to issue commands on an individual level, it must use Overlords to relay its orders to the other Zerg breeds. A Zerg colony cannot grow beyond the collective ability of all Overlords to provide the necessary amount of Control.

So beyond the gate, they won't necessarily go feral, but without Overlords, you can't get them to do anything.

[Balrog]

So beyond the gate, they won't necessarily go feral, but without Overlords, you can't get them to do anything.

You could, I suppose, tell them to "go kill shit" and while the Overmind won't be able to tell them who or what to kill, they could clear the area around the wormhole in enough time. I suppose

[Guardsman Bass]

That could explain how they were a threat to the Protoss. From what Liberty's Crusade (one of the SC novels) indicated, in a zerg-mixed group, the hydralisks actually kind of supervise the zerglings. The zerg, when without control of a Cerebrate, appear to form into small groups and attack anything else moving, like what they did in Zerg Brood War 1.

[NecronLord]

Doesn't the manual indicate as much? "Walking through an organic tunnel" isn't exactly "the exact process of its operation is also a mystery."

More to the point, there'd be no reason to assume it would make units go faster. Personally I always thought it functioned like the Oesophagus, and moved things through it via peristalsis. In other words, it swallowed zergs at one end, and vomited them up at the other.

[Specialist]

Burden of proof is on you to prove that they are more than an organic tunnel network. And game mechanics are not admissible.

Nice of you to avoid the question. Now are you going to back up that presuppose assumption that they are underground tunnels?

Nydus Canal
The precise origin of the Nydus Canal is unknown, and the exact process of its operation is also a mystery. The initial canal entrance is created and then, when a suitable site is found, a sister entrance can be opened. The Canal then enables Zerg ground units to travel from one end to the other at extremely high speed regardless of intervening terrain. This enables multiple Hatcheries located across a large area to function as one unified nest, with Zerg warriors travelling from one combat zone to another quickly and efficiently.

Where does it say tunnels that goes through the terrain? Help me out here, I'm having difficulity finding it.

[Surlethe]

Nice of you to avoid the question. Now are you going to back up that presuppose assumption that they are underground tunnels?

Are you aware of the principle of parsimony? I know; big words. Perhaps you'd like me to make them simpler so you can understand them? In any case, the only thing evident in the Nydus Canal is that it's an organic tunnel. There are no indicators of magic teleportation; no indicators of anything other than a fucking organic tunnel. Why the fuck do you think an organic tunnel should stay connected when one side goes through a stargate?

Where does it say tunnels that goes through the terrain? Help me out here, I'm having difficulity finding it.

Hey, look! A semantics whore who doesn't realize "regardless of intevening terrain" implies it requires terrain to go through!

[Guardsman Bass]

Doesn't the manual indicate as much? "Walking through an organic tunnel" isn't exactly "the exact process of its operation is also a mystery."

More to the point, there'd be no reason to assume it would make units go faster. Personally I always thought it functioned like the Oesophagus, and moved things through it via peristalsis. In other words, it swallowed zergs at one end, and vomited them up at the other.

That would be really hard on the individual zerg units, though, particularly over long (dozens or hundreds of miles) distance. You'd end up with a lot of squished zerglings.

[Surlethe]

That would be really hard on the individual zerg units, though, particularly over long (dozens or hundreds of miles) distance. You'd end up with a lot of squished zerglings.

It is an organic structure; perhaps it could differentiate between the different units, and adjust swallowing strength accordingly?

[Specialist]

Hey, look! A semantics whore who doesn't realize "regardless of intevening terrain" implies it requires terrain to go through!

Oh looky a semantic cunt who doesn't realize terrain just implies distance, regardless!
Let me look it up for you:

re·gard·less
In spite of everything; anyway: continues to work regardless.

It is an organic structure; perhaps it could differentiate between the different units, and adjust swallowing strength accordingly?

...process of its operation is also a mystery.

Funny how you got this far.

[Surlethe]

Hey, look! A semantics whore who doesn't realize "regardless of intevening terrain" implies it requires terrain to go through!

Oh looky a semantic cunt who doesn't realize terrain just implies distance, regardless!
Let me look it up for you:

re·gard·less
In spite of everything; anyway: continues to work regardless.

And the semantics whoring continues. Let me clue you in to something, while you continue to prostitute your mind dirtily nitpicking: it's known as "logic". "Regardless of intervening terrain" is the necessary condition of the implication; so if there's no terrain to cross, then the necessary condition of the converse -- the sufficient condition of the initial conditional -- is false. Of course, you evidently have no capacity for logic, you batfucking moron.

It is an organic structure; perhaps it could differentiate between the different units, and adjust swallowing strength accordingly?

...process of its operation is also a mystery.

Funny how you got this far.

Perhaps you've never heard of conjecture? Thank you for once again proving you're so full of catshit it's flowing from your nostrils.

[SirNitram]

Specialist, you will immediately post evidence the Nylas Canals do more than produce an organic tunnel between two points or your tangent is going bye-bye. This is SDNet, we require evidence and logic, not your utter bullshit. Are we clear on this, fanboy?

[NecronLord]

That would be really hard on the individual zerg units, though, particularly over long (dozens or hundreds of miles) distance. You'd end up with a lot of squished zerglings.

Hundreds of miles?

[SirNitram]

That would be really hard on the individual zerg units, though, particularly over long (dozens or hundreds of miles) distance. You'd end up with a lot of squished zerglings.

Hundreds of miles?

In Zerg fanboy land, that is perfectly acceptable. Especially as these magic scphinter caverns can extend through interstellar space.