Cody's Hesitation

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-11-17 11:01pm

Sorry if this has been discussed, (a search is giving me too many results to sort through) but when Palpatine gives the order to deep-66 the Jedi, there seems to be the slightest pause from Cody before he confirms it.

Clearly Cody has some past interaction with Kenobi, and knows him well enough for some friendly banter: "When have I ever let you down?"

Is this addressed in the novelization? Cody doesn't seem to have any particular qualms about gunning down his recent ally, and he quickly gives the order to fire. But the pause is interesting (unless I am reading too much into it!).

SpacedTeddyBear · Post by **SpacedTeddyBear** » 2005-11-17 11:11pm

I believe Cody had been under Kenobi's command since the beginning of the war. Even then, he didn't hesitate in the novel. In fact, after he received the orders he muttered something like " Why couldn't he given me the order before I gave him back his damn lightsabre".

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-11-17 11:36pm

Interesting, but if he was concerned about the sabre, I wonder why he didn't simply "lose" it. Kenobi apparently didn't even notice the weapon hanging from Cody's belt when he returned from killing Greivous.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-11-17 11:38pm

FSTargetDrone wrote:Interesting, but if he was concerned about the sabre, I wonder why he didn't simply "lose" it.

Because he hadn't recieved Order 66 yet, duh.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-11-18 12:13am

Commander Cody, Generals Skywalker and Kenobi have participated in numerous campaign in the Outer Rim Sieges, so they've built up camaraderie.

The clones' loyalty is to the Republic is unwavering. Up until Order 66 was issued, when the Jedi were their generals, they were all on the same side, so their loyalty to the Jedi was just as absolute. Order 66 tells them that the Jedi are traitors.

Ultimately, the clones are automatons, brainwashed from birth. They experienced no hesitation; enemies of the Republic must be destroyed.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-11-18 12:53am

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Order 66 wasn't some special biological order, it was just an order stating the Jedi had gone rogue. The clones were hardwired to be completely loyal to the government and command structure of the Republic, and the Jedi were not outright part of this.

*Spoiler Alert*Though its interesting to note that the next Republic Commando book seems to indicate the level of interaction and bonding that RCs made with Jedi has them resist the order and Vader is forced to hunt down the RCs.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-11-18 03:01am

Alyeska wrote:*Spoiler Alert*Though its interesting to note that the next Republic Commando book seems to indicate the level of interaction and bonding that RCs made with Jedi has them resist the order and Vader is forced to hunt down the RCs.

From what I heard, it's slightly different, but the differences are important. The Clone Commandos, due to their broader training, education and encouraged independence, came to the conclusion that Order 66 must have been the CIS slicing into their communications and broadcasting disruptive orders.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-11-18 05:14am

What I find very interesting is what Cody replied to Order 66. It wasn't "yes, chancellor", or even "yes, sir."

He said, "yes, my lord."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-11-18 05:21am

They all reply with "my lord" pretty much.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-11-18 05:24am

Eleas wrote:What I find very interesting is what Cody replied to Order 66. It wasn't "yes, chancellor", or even "yes, sir."

He said, "yes, my lord."

How the various people addresses or refers to Palpatine in ROTS is rather ambiguous. As you said, Cody replied "Yes, my lord", Mas Amedda addressed him as "My master" after the Sidious-Yoda duel and the characters in general seems to be hesitant whether he is the Chancellor or the Emperor.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-11-18 05:25am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:They all reply with "my lord" pretty much.

My point exactly. Which set me to wondering exactly when the Sith had become recognized members of the Republic Armed Forces... if Alyeska's statement was correct.

Alyeska wrote: Order 66 wasn't some special biological order, it was just an order stating the Jedi had gone rogue. The clones were hardwired to be completely loyal to the government and command structure of the Republic, and the Jedi were not outright part of this.

No, it's obvious that there was something more than the Clones' loyalty to the Republic going on. Cody recognized Sidious without introduction, which Sidious had furthermore expected.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-18 05:34am

Dark Lord spoilers:

This features clone commandos refusing to accept the veracity of Order Sixty Six, and helping the jedi escape until the mess is sorted out. Palpatine actually goes out of his way to stress that eventually, given enough experience, clone troopers can break their programming, something like "no matter how well conditioned they are, eventually clones become the sum of their experiences."

On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-11-18 05:40am

it should pointed out that Palpatine was still identiefible after the lighting attack, so Cody doesn't have to know he's talking to Darth Sidious.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-11-18 05:46am

NecronLord wrote: On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.

You forget that Palpatine had just moments ago been incredibly disfigured, and in the transmission looked nothing like his public self -- but fairly close to the aspect of Lord Darth Sidious.

Lord Revan wrote:it should pointed out that Palpatine was still identiefible after the lighting attack, so Cody doesn't have to know he's talking to Darth Sidious.

Over a blurry holo, wearing Sidious' typical robes, with a disfigured face? Unlikely at best. Also, we have never AFAIK seen anyone address the Chancellor by the title of Lord.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-18 05:47am

Eleas wrote:You forget that Palpatine had just moments ago been incredibly disfigured, and in the transmission looked nothing like his public self -- but fairly close to the aspect of Lord Darth Sidious.

Darth Sidious did not appear publically. How would Cody know to recognise him? On the other hand, I don't see why a caller display (You are being called by: Chancellor Palpatine), like the one I have on my mobile phone, is beyond the Galactic Republic.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-11-18 05:49am

Doesn't at least one refer to him as "Lord Sidious"?

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-11-18 05:55am

NecronLord wrote: Darth Sidious did not appear publically. How would Cody know to recognise him? On the other hand, I don't see why a caller display (You are being called by: Chancellor Palpatine), like the one I have on my mobile phone, is beyond the Galactic Republic.

I'm fairly certain Palpatine wanted the clones to be loyal ultimately to him as a Sith, and that would be easily accomplished. However, your theory is the simpler, and through parsimony, wins.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Doesn't at least one refer to him as "Lord Sidious"?

Not in the movie, at least.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-18 06:06am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Doesn't at least one refer to him as "Lord Sidious"?

Not according to the online transcripts I have.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-18 06:08am

Eleas wrote:I'm fairly certain Palpatine wanted the clones to be loyal ultimately to him as a Sith, and that would be easily accomplished. However, your theory is the simpler, and through parsimony, wins.

They're ultimately loyal to the republic though, not to any given chancellor (until they altered the constitution to proclaim empire, anyway). It would be rather a problem if in Labyrinth of Evil, when they're on the trail of the treasonous Sith Lord responsible for the war, one of the clones came out with 'Really? That's Palpatine's Alias...'

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-11-18 06:15am

NecronLord wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Doesn't at least one refer to him as "Lord Sidious"?
Not according to the online transcripts I have.

Okay, I don't have the DVD with me, but I thought I recalled one saying it.

However, if you say so, I'm not gonna be a cunt and try and claim otherwise.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-11-18 12:03pm

Eleas wrote:
NecronLord wrote: On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.
You forget that Palpatine had just moments ago been incredibly disfigured, and in the transmission looked nothing like his public self -- but fairly close to the aspect of Lord Darth Sidious.

Lord Revan wrote:it should pointed out that Palpatine was still identiefible after the lighting attack, so Cody doesn't have to know he's talking to Darth Sidious.
Over a blurry holo, wearing Sidious' typical robes, with a disfigured face? Unlikely at best. Also, we have never AFAIK seen anyone address the Chancellor by the title of Lord.

Perhaps the incoming transmission simply was coded as, "From the Office of the Supreme Chancellor" and that's how Cody know who it was.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2005-11-18 12:24pm

^ The novel says something very similar.

UCBooties · Post by **UCBooties** » 2005-11-18 01:18pm

This reminds me, Did Palpatine send out that signal to every commander at once or call them individualy? I ask because we have commanders responding and his message does change. But it seems like that would be a long process to call all the seperate clone commanders on every front to relay that order. It would stagger the execution and increase the chance of word getting out. Anyone know what the deal is with that?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-11-18 01:24pm

It's likely he sent messages personally to commanders who's Jedi MUST be killed as a top priority (like Obi-wan). The others he probably sent the generic "Execute Order 66" transmission.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-11-18 03:44pm

As to clones recognizing Paly's hologram image or not, there must be other unseen information that is transmitted to the clones, confirming the message is genuine. The image of Palpatine (and hologram usage in general) could merely be a formality or visual convenience. A clone (or anyone else for that matter) couldn't count on a blurred image alone to be proof enough that who the clone is speaking to is really who he or she looks like.