CPU Runs a Bit Hot, plus 'Modernization' for Quake4...

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Engine Runs Too Hot!:

Okay, I recently got MBM5 (That's Motherboard Monitor for those whose GoogleFu isn't 31337), and I noticed that before while my CPU would run 32-35C idle when I bought it, it now runs 45C idle, ~65C under load (Quake!). So much for Overclocking this turkey!

Also, one of my HDDs, the Maxtor 60gig I have all my stuff on, had an anomalous temp reading of (just guess...) 70C!! After going OMFG WTF HOLYFUCKINGSHIT! and doing various hyperventilating, I decided to experiment. More on that later...

That's a bit uncomfortably AMDish territory for me, especially for a Celery @ 2.4GHz! I already pulled off the heatsink (POS aluminum one with very thick, inefficient fins!) and vacuumed/swabbed/used various implements-of-mighty-scraping enough dust, mold, and hair to make Roseanne Barr's snatch jealous! With the heatsink now squeaky-clean, I reassembled everything, remounted the 'Hot HDD' one slot over away from the other HDD to see if bad airflow or false temp readings were responsible, then vacuumed everything out nice and closed 'er up.

All that effort to shave only ~3C off the idle temp instead of the ten I was looking for! The HDD temp didn't even budge either, and it would read ~50C right at boot when everything else was still reading 25C. AHA! It's a faulty sensor! Time to put a -25 bias on the reading...

Anyways, my proposed solution is to get more case fans, round IDE cables, and replace the heatsink with something more kickass.


Upgrading for Quake 4:

Also, since I gained a Lvl 1 CPU/Heatsink skill while doing that and I'll be fucking around with the heatsink soon anyway, I'd like advice on what Socket-478 CPU has the most bang-for-the-buck. I'd also like pointers for the best value for a graphics card to replace my ATI 9200. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice card for Q3, but the DooM3 Demo makes the poor thing CHUG! I also want to know if I'll need a RAM upgrade (512Megs PC2700 and PC3200: why they're two different PCs is beyond me!) as well. I don't want a repeat of my old 'Quake 3 on a 400MHz P2 with a GF2MX Slide Show' I used to deal with...

[Spanky The Dolphin]

From what I've heard, you shouldn't even bother with Quake 4.

[Arrow]

From what I've heard, you shouldn't even bother with Quake 4.

You should play it before you say that. Quake 4 is a fun game. It pushes the bound of Doom 3 engine further, too. It might not be as novel as FEAR or have as many tricks, but it is a solid, well designed, well developed game.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

From what I've heard, you shouldn't even bother with Quake 4.

You should play it before you say that. Quake 4 is a fun game. It pushes the bound of Doom 3 engine further, too. It might not be as novel as FEAR or have as many tricks, but it is a solid, well designed, well developed game.

Thanks for the defense Arrow, but I really don't want this hijack going any further. Besides, Q2 and Q3 got panned by critics even worse than Q4 is now upon their release and look where they are now!

[Miles Teg]

Engine Runs Too Hot!:

Okay, I recently got MBM5 (That's Motherboard Monitor for those whose GoogleFu isn't 31337), and I noticed that before while my CPU would run 32-35C idle when I bought it, it now runs 45C idle, ~65C under load (Quake!). So much for Overclocking this turkey!

What's the ambient tempurature in the room this machine is in? My X2 during the summer idles at about 32C (45C max/1core, 55max/2core), but now that it's more winter like, it idles at 26C. Ambient tempurature is important to consider.

I already pulled off the heatsink (POS aluminum one with very thick, inefficient fins!) and vacuumed/swabbed/used various implements-of-mighty-scraping enough dust, mold, and hair to make Roseanne Barr's snatch jealous! With the heatsink now squeaky-clean, I reassembled everything,

You did apply a good thermal grease (Arctic Silver), didn't you? A "squeaky-clean" heatsink is actually a crappy conductor of heat. The metal surface, even pre scratching the hell out of it by scraping stuff off, is not really smooth enough to form an efficient thermal transfer surface. A good thermal grease will drop temps by as much as 10C.

remounted the 'Hot HDD' one slot over away from the other HDD to see if bad airflow or false temp readings were responsible, then vacuumed everything out nice and closed 'er up.

Touch your HDD, if it burns you, it's running at 70C =) If it's just warm, then those temps are incorrect.

Anyways, my proposed solution is to get more case fans, round IDE cables, and replace the heatsink with something more kickass.

The heatsink is not a bad idea, just make sure you purchase one that fits inside your case =) if you have a plain mid tower the best Zalman would be the 7000. If you care to do all the measurements and whatnot, you can try for a bigger model like the 7700 and the CNPS9500.

More fans are a good idea to. At a minimum you should have a rear case fan (in conjunction with the power supply's fan). Make sure the onces you do have are actually working...

Don't bother with the other stuff until you make sure you a.) have applied a thermal grease, b.) have a decent heat sink, and c.) make sure al your case fans are operating.

Upgrading for Quake 4:

Also, since I gained a Lvl 1 CPU/Heatsink skill while doing that and I'll be fucking around with the heatsink soon anyway, I'd like advice on what Socket-478 CPU has the most bang-for-the-buck. I'd also like pointers for the best value for a graphics card to replace my ATI 9200. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice card for Q3, but the DooM3 Demo makes the poor thing CHUG! I also want to know if I'll need a RAM upgrade (512Megs PC2700 and PC3200: why they're two different PCs is beyond me!) as well. I don't want a repeat of my old 'Quake 3 on a 400MHz P2 with a GF2MX Slide Show' I used to deal with...

Hmm. newegg is your friend on bang for buck comparisons. Definitely stay away from Celeron's an the like in the future if you want to play games. Get whatever S-478 P4 you can afford.

However, If you have the funds and the knowledge, and *really* want to play Q4, then ditch your current MB/CPU/RAM/VId. You'd be better served (financially and performance wise) in the long run by upgrading your motherboard. Also, stay away from Intel if you want to overclock and/or want a cool/quiet system.


Staying with your current motherboard is a dead end. You're pretty much throwing away money if you buy an S-478 chip and AGP video card.

Miles Teg

[Dalton]

From what I've heard, you shouldn't even bother with Quake 4.

Hey, thanks for the review, Spanks. Now, do you have any actual tips or advice for Einhander here besides "I heard Quake 4 sucks"?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

No, I do not. Comment retracted and apologies.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Engine Runs Too Hot!:

Okay, I recently got MBM5 (That's Motherboard Monitor for those whose GoogleFu isn't 31337), and I noticed that before while my CPU would run 32-35C idle when I bought it, it now runs 45C idle, ~65C under load (Quake!). So much for Overclocking this turkey!

What's the ambient tempurature in the room this machine is in? My X2 during the summer idles at about 32C (45C max/1core, 55max/2core), but now that it's more winter like, it idles at 26C. Ambient tempurature is important to consider.

Ah, bog-standard 20-28C. My Celly still runs too hot for ambient temps to matter much.

I already pulled off the heatsink (POS aluminum one with very thick, inefficient fins!) and vacuumed/swabbed/used various implements-of-mighty-scraping enough dust, mold, and hair to make Roseanne Barr's snatch jealous! With the heatsink now squeaky-clean, I reassembled everything,

You did apply a good thermal grease (Arctic Silver), didn't you? A "squeaky-clean" heatsink is actually a crappy conductor of heat. The metal surface, even pre scratching the hell out of it by scraping stuff off, is not really smooth enough to form an efficient thermal transfer surface. A good thermal grease will drop temps by as much as 10C.

I meant the top part was 'squeaky-clean', not the part with the thermal grease. I left that on since it seemed okay.

remounted the 'Hot HDD' one slot over away from the other HDD to see if bad airflow or false temp readings were responsible, then vacuumed everything out nice and closed 'er up.

Touch your HDD, if it burns you, it's running at 70C =) If it's just warm, then those temps are incorrect.

I already know those temps are incorrect. It showed 50C when everything else was just 25C, right after boot.

Anyways, my proposed solution is to get more case fans, round IDE cables, and replace the heatsink with something more kickass.

The heatsink is not a bad idea, just make sure you purchase one that fits inside your case =) if you have a plain mid tower the best Zalman would be the 7000. If you care to do all the measurements and whatnot, you can try for a bigger model like the 7700 and the CNPS9500.

I have a case that can best be described as a 'Monolith' from 2001.

More fans are a good idea to. At a minimum you should have a rear case fan (in conjunction with the power supply's fan). Make sure the onces you do have are actually working...

Oh, they're definitely working. I put my hand behind the computer and can feel two distinct jets of hot air where the case and CPU fans are at!

Don't bother with the other stuff until you make sure you a.) have applied a thermal grease, b.) have a decent heat sink, and c.) make sure al your case fans are operating.

Check, Working on It™, and Check.

Upgrading for Quake 4:

Also, since I gained a Lvl 1 CPU/Heatsink skill while doing that and I'll be fucking around with the heatsink soon anyway, I'd like advice on what Socket-478 CPU has the most bang-for-the-buck. I'd also like pointers for the best value for a graphics card to replace my ATI 9200. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice card for Q3, but the DooM3 Demo makes the poor thing CHUG! I also want to know if I'll need a RAM upgrade (512Megs PC2700 and PC3200: why they're two different PCs is beyond me!) as well. I don't want a repeat of my old 'Quake 3 on a 400MHz P2 with a GF2MX Slide Show' I used to deal with...

Hmm. newegg is your friend on bang for buck comparisons. Definitely stay away from Celeron's an the like in the future if you want to play games. Get whatever S-478 P4 you can afford.

However, If you have the funds and the knowledge, and *really* want to play Q4, then ditch your current MB/CPU/RAM/VId. You'd be better served (financially and performance wise) in the long run by upgrading your motherboard. Also, stay away from Intel if you want to overclock and/or want a cool/quiet system.


Staying with your current motherboard is a dead end. You're pretty much throwing away money if you buy an S-478 chip and AGP video card.

Miles Teg

Funds? Hah! Looks like I'm screwed until I buy another computer (not bloody likely). I'll make damn sure it's an AMD too, hopefully the most advanced one I can get my hands on. Good thing I'm in San Antonio instead of New Orleans: the quantity of tech geeks here is astounding!

As for overclocking/cool/quiet system, yes I want to OC, yes I want it reasonably cool, no I don't care if the bloody thing sounds like a jet engine so long as it plays Quake4 at a consistent 90FPS No Matter What®.

[Icehawk]

For a bang for buck socket 478 CPU I'd Go with the Pentium 4 3.0 GHz. They've got it on Tigerdirect.com for $189.99.

Graphics card. Best bang for buck right now is Nvidia 6600GT, from what I've seen they go for around $150-180 USD right now. I've even seen a few 6800's now in the sub $200 USD range as well.

RAM: 512 megs is still passable in this day and age but it won't be for long. You should probably upgrade to at least 1 gb. Get two sticks of 512mb PC3200 or if you can just a single 1gb PC3200 stick.

PC 3200 is 400mhz, PC2700 is 333mhz.

[Admiral Valdemar]

You ain't seen hot. My P4 Prescott rated at 3.2 GHz clockspeed is now running idle at around 70 degrees. When it's under pressure, it pushes almost 100 and this is with two fans in the case and a decent heatsink, though I posted about this problem earlier this month. I'll probably get around to buying a better fan and heatsink and maybe some thermal grease, but really it's to be expected from this processor. They do tend to run damn hot on the latest Pentium 4s, which they're now trying to sort out (not that AMD don't have thermal issues too).

Y'know, Ein. You could just take up something like CS: Source and not have your PC nearly die trying to emulate a FPS game with all these new fangled useless glitzy features developers put in graphics now.

[Arrow]

Well, are you sure that MBM5 is configured properly? I had it misconfigured when I first installed it, and it gave me 1300 C for a GPU temperature (that was actually the memory clock speed).

Also, if you do upgraded, I have to second RAM RAM RAM statement. 2 GB will future proof you, although you're looking at ~$200, minimum. And the San Diego core AMDs are supposed to be excellent performers with good overclocking, IIRC.

[Uraniun235]

They do tend to run damn hot on the latest Pentium 4s, which they're now trying to sort out (not that AMD don't have thermal issues too).

Uhh... my Athlon 64 3200+ never cracks 50. With a stock heatsink.

Intel's high-end desktop line has been pretty consistently running hotter than AMD's lately... these are no longer the days of the Athlon Thunderbird chips.

[Xon]

I already know those temps are incorrect. It showed 50C when everything else was just 25C, right after boot..

That just means the drive might be failing.

Is it actually hot to the touch? Have you used the manufacturer's utilities to check it?

[Miles Teg]

I meant the top part was 'squeaky-clean', not the part with the thermal grease. I left that on since it seemed okay.

You can't reuse thermal grease. If it was a factory "themal compund pad" then it's probably hardened and become less efficient (which could be part of the cause of your heat up). If it's something like artic silver that stays liquid, once you pull the heasink, you create ton's of air pockets in the grease which recdue it's effectiveness.

I have a case that can best be described as a 'Monolith' from 2001.

You just gave me an ideas for a line of cases...

[Oline61]

You probably should remove the heatsink, clean it with rubbing alcohol, and clear the processor heat spreader with alcohol, then apply thermal paste, prefferable AS5.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Sorry to necro, but Today's The Day we go buy a new heatsink for the Celery. No, Ace, I won't allow sniping or jokes from the peanut gallery since this is time-critical.

Simply put: I want the BEST price/performance heatsink possible for a Socket478 CPU. I want it copper and to have as many heatpipes as possible!

[Glocksman]

Unless you overclock heavily, the bog-stock Intel OEM heatsink should be plenty of cooling and a heavy copper deal would just be a waste of money....if you are using a thermally advantaged chassis.
Seriously, a buddy of mine couldn't get his Prescott to stay under 60°C at idle even with one of those humumgous Zalman copper heatsinks until he replaced the side panel on his case with one that had the horn shown in this drawing
Meanwhile, my AMD64 3000+ barely breaks 53°C under full load with the plain factory heatsink.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Can one of those horns be fabricated or purchased? The Monolith has nothing of the sort...

[Glocksman]

You may be able to buy the panel from the case maker, as my friend wound up doing with his Antec.
If not, yeah it can be done with a Dremel, careful measuring, and a bit of ingenuity in finding a suitable 'donor' horn (like a plastic cup with the bottom cut out).

EDIT: Here's the Intel Chassis Design Guide that should have the information in it you need.