What is uniquely Christian?

[wolveraptor]

Also, I can think of much more painful ways to die than being nailed to a cross. Being raped by a male lion (barbed penis and all), for example, and then having your extremities burned by liquid nitrogen. Then one of your eyes could be ripped out by rusty tongs, and then someone would rub salt and Hydrochloric acid on the wound. Then they'd cauterize it with a branding iron. Then they'd decapitate you.

All that on top of the sins.

[CaptJodan]

Also, I can think of much more painful ways to die than being nailed to a cross. Being raped by a male lion (barbed penis and all), for example, and then having your extremities burned by liquid nitrogen. Then one of your eyes could be ripped out by rusty tongs, and then someone would rub salt and Hydrochloric acid on the wound. Then they'd cauterize it with a branding iron. Then they'd decapitate you.

All that on top of the sins.

But you haven't thought too heavily into this, have you Wolveraptor?

[The Guid]

If I could promise you that you wouldn't die but that you would go through intense emotional and physical pain would you see it as a sacrifice?

Personally, I'd be wondering why the hell someone has to suffer immensely when the being in question is all fucking powerful.

It follows the idea that sins have to be paid for in some way or other. Its a presupposition that one can refute, but it is central to Christianity.

[General Zod]

If I could promise you that you wouldn't die but that you would go through intense emotional and physical pain would you see it as a sacrifice?

Personally, I'd be wondering why the hell someone has to suffer immensely when the being in question is all fucking powerful.

It follows the idea that sins have to be paid for in some way or other. Its a presupposition that one can refute, but it is central to Christianity.

That still begs the question of why would an omnipotent being need to do so in the first place. If he's really all powerful, he should be able to just handwave it away without needing to jump through so many convoluted hoops.

[SirNitram]

If I could promise you that you wouldn't die but that you would go through intense emotional and physical pain would you see it as a sacrifice?

Personally, I'd be wondering why the hell someone has to suffer immensely when the being in question is all fucking powerful.

It follows the idea that sins have to be paid for in some way or other. Its a presupposition that one can refute, but it is central to Christianity.

You don't actually get what 'all-powerful' implies, nay, requires to be applied, do you?

[Metatwaddle]

How about original sin, is that unique to christianity?

Nope. Pandora's Box.

[wolveraptor]

Also, I can think of much more painful ways to die than being nailed to a cross. Being raped by a male lion (barbed penis and all), for example, and then having your extremities burned by liquid nitrogen. Then one of your eyes could be ripped out by rusty tongs, and then someone would rub salt and Hydrochloric acid on the wound. Then they'd cauterize it with a branding iron. Then they'd decapitate you.

All that on top of the sins.

But you haven't thought too heavily into this, have you Wolveraptor?

Hell no, man. That was off the top of my head. If Jesus really wanted to impress me with a painful death, he should've existed in ancient China. There are hours and hours of fun torture techniques that you could use to make his death as painful as possible.

[Jew]

How about original sin, is that unique to christianity?

Nope. Pandora's Box.

I'm not sure that the story of Pandora's Box can be accurately said to reflect the idea of Original Sin. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, "Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam."

The story of Pandora's Box has Pandora opening a box which lets the "misfortunes of mankind" out into the world. There is a similarity between Pandora's Box and Original Sin in that it is one act which results in everlasting consequences for all future generations.

However, the misfortunes that Pandora releases are things such as hunger, poverty, and war. Basically, they are just things we don't like about the world. That's not the same at all as Original Sin, which is strictly a moral consideration. Worldly aflictions such as hunger and poverty are not sins. Pandora did not release sins, she released suffering. When Adam sinned, he caused the whole of humanity to be stained with sin.

So there is a similarity, but the concept of Original Sin is not the same as what happens in the story of Pandora's Box.

[Darth Wong]

It's interesting that whenever you ask a Christian to explain how sins are erased by suffering and torture, he simply repeats that they are, and we should be thankful for it.

Christianity at heart is nothing more than an animal sacrifice religion. In ancient religions, you made amends to the gods for your sins by giving them something. Of course, since the gods could not drop by for lunch and pick up their gift, you had to develop some elaborate ritual for symbolically giving them the gift. This typically involved killing an animal, and doing other silly things with it like waving its entrails around in the air or burning it so that the gods would smell the sweet aroma.

Of course, some religions went farther, and actually sacrificed humans, deemed to be more valuable than animals. In many cases they sacrificed humans chosen for "purity", such as young virginal females.

Enter Christianity, which takes this exact mentality and simply substitutes their Messiah for the human sacrifice. That's why Christians never answer the question of how Christ's "sacrifice" atones for our sins: because they don't want to face the truth. Christianity is nothing more than a human-sacrifice religion, just like those of the Aztecs, in which they believe they offered up the greatest and purest human sacrifice of all.

As for the notion that this doctrine is unique to Christianity, I can only point and laugh at the ignorance, egocentrism, and stupidity of anyone who would seriously believe that no other religion has something similar to this. Any idiot can see how Christianity's central doctrine is exactly analogous to any of the world's many human and animal sacrifice religions (they even call him the Lamb, for fuck's sake), unless he is too blinded by ideology to accept the truth.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Ah, but the counterpoint would be that Christianity is unique for having God Himself become human, experience the indignities of being human, and then die, thus experiencing the pain while in vulnerable human form.

And the counter-counterpoint is that the Aztecs had Quetzalcoatl die for humanity as well, not to mention a few other examples of deities dying to save humanity.

So, never mind.

Wait, are there any examples of a supreme deity dying to save humanity from their own mistakes?

[wolveraptor]

Well, there's an alternate story of Prometheus where his brother Epithemeus makes all the species of animals, and realizes that he gave all the good stuff for animals, and didn't live shit for humans. So Prometheus gives them an upright stance, and fire (probably symbolizing technology). Of course, Zeus then becomes pissed because the humans are made too much like gods, and you know the rest.

So there is a myth were a Titan gets tortured trying to make up for his brother's idiocy.

[Darth RyanKCR]

It's interesting that whenever you ask a Christian to explain how sins are erased by suffering and torture, he simply repeats that they are, and we should be thankful for it.

Christianity at heart is nothing more than an animal sacrifice religion. In ancient religions, you made amends to the gods for your sins by giving them something. Of course, since the gods could not drop by for lunch and pick up their gift, you had to develop some elaborate ritual for symbolically giving them the gift. This typically involved killing an animal, and doing other silly things with it like waving its entrails around in the air or burning it so that the gods would smell the sweet aroma.

Of course, some religions went farther, and actually sacrificed humans, deemed to be more valuable than animals. In many cases they sacrificed humans chosen for "purity", such as young virginal females.

Enter Christianity, which takes this exact mentality and simply substitutes their Messiah for the human sacrifice. That's why Christians never answer the question of how Christ's "sacrifice" atones for our sins: because they don't want to face the truth. Christianity is nothing more than a human-sacrifice religion, just like those of the Aztecs, in which they believe they offered up the greatest and purest human sacrifice of all.

As for the notion that this doctrine is unique to Christianity, I can only point and laugh at the ignorance, egocentrism, and stupidity of anyone who would seriously believe that no other religion has something similar to this. Any idiot can see how Christianity's central doctrine is exactly analogous to any of the world's many human and animal sacrifice religions (they even call him the Lamb, for fuck's sake), unless he is too blinded by ideology to accept the truth.

This issue is the penalty for sin is death (seperation from God). Christ's death was all atoning because He being sinless and suffering the penalty of death (seperation of God thus His cry of why God has forsaken Him) fulfilled the required justice of the consequence of sin. In simple human terms Christ took the rap for humantiy because of His love for us to have us reconciled with Him if we just accept it.

[Surlethe]

This issue is the penalty for sin is death (seperation from God). Christ's death was all atoning because He being sinless and suffering the penalty of death (seperation of God thus His cry of why God has forsaken Him) fulfilled the required justice of the consequence of sin. In simple human terms Christ took the rap for humantiy because of His love for us to have us reconciled with Him if we just accept it.

How do you equate death with separation from God?

[General Zod]

This issue is the penalty for sin is death (seperation from God). Christ's death was all atoning because He being sinless and suffering the penalty of death (seperation of God thus His cry of why God has forsaken Him) fulfilled the required justice of the consequence of sin. In simple human terms Christ took the rap for humantiy because of His love for us to have us reconciled with Him if we just accept it.

Do you have any kind of point beyond regurgitating mindless Christian dogma?

[SirNitram]

Ah, but the counterpoint would be that Christianity is unique for having God Himself become human, experience the indignities of being human, and then die, thus experiencing the pain while in vulnerable human form.

You've never actually read Roman/Greek mythology, have you? It's got all three in huge dollops.. Gods making themselves humans, Gods suffering tremendous pain, Gods dying for various things, including sins.

[SirNitram]

It's interesting that whenever you ask a Christian to explain how sins are erased by suffering and torture, he simply repeats that they are, and we should be thankful for it.

This issue is the penalty for sin is death (seperation from God). Christ's death was all atoning because He being sinless and suffering the penalty of death (seperation of God thus His cry of why God has forsaken Him) fulfilled the required justice of the consequence of sin. In simple human terms Christ took the rap for humantiy because of His love for us to have us reconciled with Him if we just accept it.

There we go. The irony is now prominently displayed for all.

[Morilore]

Wow, you did exactly what Darth Wong said religious nuts do in the very first sentence of his that you quoted!!

This issue is the penalty for sin is death (seperation from God).

Why?

Christ's death was all atoning because He being sinless and suffering the penalty of death (seperation of God thus His cry of why God has forsaken Him) fulfilled the required justice of the consequence of sin.

Executing innocents in place of the guilty =/= justice.

In simple human terms Christ took the rap for humantiy because of His love for us to have us reconciled with Him if we just accept it.

Jesus is God. So God sacrificed himself to himself to so he could get around a rule... he made himself. And even that didn't work perfectly, because some people still go to hell in this system.

[Morilore]

...
Fuck you all.

[Darth Wong]

As Patrick Degan would say, sometimes the comedy just writes itself.

[Darth RyanKCR]

Wow, you did exactly what Darth Wong said religious nuts do in the very first sentence of his that you quoted!!

This issue is the penalty for sin is death (seperation from God).

Why?

By sinning we are choosing to turn from God. There is the seperation. We are the one's doing the seperation. Hence the Death. I don't have the exact verse but the Bible defines death as the Seperation.

And I was clarify the doctrine. Wong kept it very very simple to make it look stupid without really trying to understand it. It's understandable though when you reject it you ridicule or belitte it and those who follow it. It's the same with everything else. If you don't like something to make your postion in what you believe better you tend to belittle the other side and it's followers. The sad truth is there are many Christians who do the same. And actually I have probably done the same too and I am not proud of that.

[Darth Wong]

Notice how the idiot makes no attempt to show where my description is actually wrong; he simply says it's wrong and expects everyone to believe him.

[Morilore]

By sinning we are choosing to turn from God.

Why?

There is the seperation. We are the one's doing the seperation.

How can a choice that we allegedly make even if we are Christians (since Christians sin too) be counteracted by suffering and death?

Hence the Death. I don't have the exact verse but the Bible defines death as the Seperation.

Why?

And I was clarify the doctrine.
You were literally just repeating Standard Christian Dogma(TM).

Wong kept it very very simple to make it look stupid without really trying to understand it.

That's because it is simple and stupid. And we do understand it. It's just dumb.

It's understandable though when you reject it you ridicule or belitte it and those who follow it. It's the same with everything else. If you don't like something to make your postion in what you believe better you tend to belittle the other side and it's followers. The sad truth is there are many Christians who do the same. And actually I have probably done the same too and I am not proud of that.

Blah blah blah.

[SirNitram]

By sinning we are choosing to turn from God. There is the seperation. We are the one's doing the seperation. Hence the Death. I don't have the exact verse but the Bible defines death as the Seperation.

Of course you don't. People like you never do. It's why you don't know your silly book puts wearing two types of fibre and eating shellfish up there with sleeping with your own kids.

Oh, wait. Your religion promotes this by having it happen again and again with holy folks.

And I was clarify the doctrine. Wong kept it very very simple to make it look stupid without really trying to understand it. It's understandable though when you reject it you ridicule or belitte it and those who follow it.

Your 'clarification' explains nothing and does not make it any less laughable.

It's the same with everything else. If you don't like something to make your postion in what you believe better you tend to belittle the other side and it's followers.

Sort of what you're doing here, really: Claiming everyone else must be either stupid or simple or lying. Whereas we're at least showing why you're a lying shit.

The sad truth is there are many Christians who do the same. And actually I have probably done the same too and I am not proud of that.

You're doing it now. The problem is, you're doing it while not actually answering the question, so you're worse.

[Surlethe]

By sinning we are choosing to turn from God. There is the seperation. We are the one's doing the seperation. Hence the Death. I don't have the exact verse but the Bible defines death as the Seperation.

Really? I was under the impression death was when your brain stopped working. Silly me!

And I was clarify the doctrine. Wong kept it very very simple to make it look stupid without really trying to understand it.

I thought he did a good job of summarizing the core of the faith, actually. He caught what I believe very nicely.

It's understandable though when you reject it you ridicule or belitte it and those who follow it. It's the same with everything else. If you don't like something to make your postion in what you believe better you tend to belittle the other side and it's followers. The sad truth is there are many Christians who do the same. And actually I have probably done the same too and I am not proud of that.

[General Zod]

By sinning we are choosing to turn from God. There is the seperation. We are the one's doing the seperation. Hence the Death. I don't have the exact verse but the Bible defines death as the Seperation.

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah. </continuing to mindlessly spew dogma>

And I was clarify the doctrine. Wong kept it very very simple to make it look stupid without really trying to understand it. It's understandable though when you reject it you ridicule or belitte it and those who follow it. It's the same with everything else. If you don't like something to make your postion in what you believe better you tend to belittle the other side and it's followers. The sad truth is there are many Christians who do the same. And actually I have probably done the same too and I am not proud of that.

So, how does this change the fact that it's silly when an omnipotent god should feasibly be able to wash away all 'sin' without having to come up with some inanely convoluted scheme?