Questions on Islam

[Kitsune]

I am just trying to do a bit of Q & A on the subject. Just trying to get some answers so I can understand the religion better.

1. Is there enough evidence to prove that it is likely that Mohommed actually existed?

2. Assuming that he actually existed, would he have been considered Jewish before his conversion to Islam?

3. How does Islam view the Torah? It sounds like the do use at least some hebrew figures.

4. Does a strict interpretation of Islam conflict with Evolution?

There may be more questions later

[Glimmervoid]

2. Assuming that he actually existed, would he have been considered Jewish before his conversion to Islam?

I think he was a member of a corrupted religion with many gods hence the stone idols he smashed. According to Islam, Islam has existed since the creation but was forgotten alone the way. Ever stone, atom everything non human would also be viewed as being a Muslim since they are in submission to the one true God.

3. How does Islam view the Torah? It sounds like the do use at least some Hebrew figures.

Both the bible and the Torah are viewed as corrupted versions of Gods true message (as found in the Qua’ran). Most of the major and some of the minor prophets of both Judaism and Christianity are recognized by Islam (e.g. Adam, mosses, Jesus-not as son of God). On a side note the written Qua’ran is also viewed as corrupted (or more properly reduced) and only when spoken is it pure.

If a Muslim was to mention any of the Jewish prophets (at least the once they except) they would add the honorific “peace be upon him” just like they would for Mohamed.

Mohamed him self referred to them as “people of the book” meaning they follow a path given to them by God (if one that has been corrupted by others before them).

This was based on what I remeber from my higher RMPS course in school so some might be wronge.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I am just trying to do a bit of Q & A on the subject. Just trying to get some answers so I can understand the religion better.

1. Is there enough evidence to prove that it is likely that Mohommed actually existed?

Yes. Unlike Jesus, Mohammed commanded armies in the field, which leaves a considerable historical record.

2. Assuming that he actually existed, would he have been considered Jewish before his conversion to Islam?

No. The Quraysh tribe to which he belonged was in charge of the powerful temple bureaucracy of Mecca, which was polytheistic.

3. How does Islam view the Torah? It sounds like the do use at least some hebrew figures.

The Torah and the Bible are both used as sources for various parts of the Koran and Muslims accept both as been distorted sources of truth which have been superseded by the Koran but must be accorded respect.

4. Does a strict interpretation of Islam conflict with Evolution?

Yes. God didn't even bother to take a week to make the world in Islam; he just say "Be", and it was (to paraphrase the Koran).

[Darth Wong]

It's interesting that God always has to utter something when he creates the universe in the Abrahamic religions. Who is he speaking to? What's the point of saying anything if there's no one to hear?

[Zero]

It's interesting that God always has to utter something when he creates the universe in the Abrahamic religions. Who is he speaking to? What's the point of saying anything if there's no one to hear?

And following a strict interpretation, there was nothing here beforehand, so speaking would have been impossible anyways. No air = no medium for sound to travel through. Of course, that's an insanely strict position, I've been told.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I am just trying to do a bit of Q & A on the subject. Just trying to get some answers so I can understand the religion better.

1. Is there enough evidence to prove that it is likely that Mohommed actually existed?

No. The earliest writings about the life of Muhammed were drawn up a hundred and thirty years after his alleged death. 1. So, there is some question about how much of Mohammed's life is truth, and how much of it is embellishment tacked on by later scholars going off of the traditions of the time (especially as there seems to have been some considerable disparity among the assorted traditions.) Worse still, the Mecca of Mohammed never appeared in classical Greek and Roman accounts, even though both of the former engaged in extensive trade with the Arabian tribesmen of the time. 2

2. Assuming that he actually existed, would he have been considered Jewish before his conversion to Islam?

The peoples inhabiting the Asia Minor may have been Semitic, but they weren't all Jews. The accounts of Muhammed have him as a member of a tribe that venerated several different deities. So, technically, he was originally a pagan.

3. How does Islam view the Torah? It sounds like the do use at least some hebrew figures.

Muslims consider themselves to be descended from Abraham by Ishmael. The Judeo-Christian prophets, including Jesus, are thusly seen as prophets of Allah, though what they say is not as important as what Allah's last prophet, Mohammed said.

4. Does a strict interpretation of Islam conflict with Evolution?

Yep. The Qu'ran parrots the same scientific thoughts that the Judeo-Christian texts do (i.e. all people descend from a single man, the Earth is fixed and flat, and other similar nonsense.)

[spongyblue]

It's interesting that God always has to utter something when he creates the universe in the Abrahamic religions. Who is he speaking to? What's the point of saying anything if there's no one to hear?

Maybe it's like going to the fridge in the middle of the night and stubbing your toe and saying 'fuck'

[Koolaidkirby]

It's interesting that God always has to utter something when he creates the universe in the Abrahamic religions. Who is he speaking to? What's the point of saying anything if there's no one to hear?

i doubt he/it "literally" said it, as most monotheistic gods seem to have no "physical" forms per say. It was more of an equivalent to thinking "i wanna make a sandwich, lets make one"(i think)

[wolveraptor]

Then why would they speciffically say the word "said" rather than thought. Besides, no one ever thinks in complete words like that.

[SirNitram]

It's interesting that God always has to utter something when he creates the universe in the Abrahamic religions. Who is he speaking to? What's the point of saying anything if there's no one to hear?

It basically stems from the ancient idea that words hold power. I'm not sure where it comes from, or when it sprouted, but it probably has to do with recignizing how important language is. There's alot of it in mythology; the concept of 'true names', or magic words.

Basically, the idea is that he's not speaking to anyone; the act of speaking creates. As if describing something, in the right words, calls it into being.

[Sarevok]

1. Is there enough evidence to prove that it is likely that Mohommed actually existed?

Yes. Even ignoring other major pieces of evidence he had wives and children. Some of their descendants still exist today IIRC.

2. Assuming that he actually existed, would he have been considered Jewish before his conversion to Islam?

No. Duchess is right on this one.

3. How does Islam view the Torah? It sounds like the do use at least some hebrew figures.

The torah is considered a distorted version one of the 4 main books Allah sent to men. There is many passages about events in the Jewish faith in the Koran such as their history and their prophets who the muslims recognize too.

4. Does a strict interpretation of Islam conflict with Evolution?

Depends on your point of view. Islam never went into details. The Koran was metaphorical in describing the natural world. If one ignores the evolution of humans I suppose one could assume Allah created the universe billons of years ago and then let it evolve on its own. This is my personal view and one most people I know seem to share.

Interestingly while Bangladesh is the 3rd largest muslim nation in the world there is no intelligent design vs science debate. At school only science is studied in science class with no mention of religion whatsoever. Religious theories and ponderings are left to religion classes.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

[quote="GrandMasterTerwynn"

No. The earliest writings about the life of Muhammed were drawn up a hundred and thirty years after his alleged death. 1. So, there is some question about how much of Mohammed's life is truth, and how much of it is embellishment tacked on by later scholars going off of the traditions of the time (especially as there seems to have been some considerable disparity among the assorted traditions.) Worse still, the Mecca of Mohammed never appeared in classical Greek and Roman accounts, even though both of the former engaged in extensive trade with the Arabian tribesmen of the time. 2[/quote]

Meh. The fact is that an army of fourty thousands appeared on the Yarmuk river to challenge Byzantine control of Syria, part of a state let by the Caliph Abu Bakr, direct heir to Muhammed as leader of the Islamic community. We therefore know as absolute fact that Abu Bakr existed, led the Islamic nation in a series of major wars during his brief reign, and all agree that he was the direct heir of Muhammed. If he had himself simply taken a preexisting minor movement of various compilations and led it to power, why go to the length of creating a prophet? Why not be the prophet? Abu Bakr has no motivation for lying in a way which makes his own reputation less than it otherwise could have been, and definitely existed, since obviously the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires no longer rule the Middle East.

At any rate, you completely ignore the fact that there are other sources than the Greco-Roman historiographical tradition; there is an extant document in ancient Yemeni detailing an oath sworn by Muhammad before the angels of God regarding a trade agreement with the ancient Kingdom of Sana'a, which provides direct evidence of his existence. Less reliable but still possibly genuine is a letter discovered in the 19th century in Egypt containing a message from Muhammad to the Byzantine governor thereof at the time.

Though Muhammad is probably NOT the author of the Quran--it was most likely written down by Abu Bakr or Omar in Aramaic and only later translated into its supposed "pure" Arabic form (since it contains a huge amount of details of governing an Islamic state, which simply never was important under Muhammad, but became very important under Abu Bakr and Omar, giving them the reason to produce a codified document essentially serving as a law-book for the Caliphate, which was first in Aramaic and then when translated into Arabic became the Quran as we know it)--it is quite plausible and indeed likely that he did in fact exist.

Yep. The Qu'ran parrots the same scientific thoughts that the Judeo-Christian texts do (i.e. all people descend from a single man, the Earth is fixed and flat, and other similar nonsense.)

This is simply false. The Koran was written with several thousand years of additional scientific knowledge which was in fact incorporated in it. The Earth is described to be shaped "like a turban wound around a man's head", and has always been universally interpreted as a description of an imperfect sphere. Islam does, however, subscribe to the bizarre Ptolemaic model of the universe, and has no actual knowledge beyond what the Greeks discovered a couple centuries earlier.

[lgot]

It basically stems from the ancient idea that words hold power. I'm not sure where it comes from, or when it sprouted, but it probably has to do with recignizing how important language is. There's alot of it in mythology; the concept of 'true names', or magic words.

Simple from the fact that until writtings showed up all the knowledge/wisdow of the society was in the oral words. Thus the oral sages from traditional societies holding so much power.
Their relation with the word as different also, The Word was "sacred", lies not welcome (they had no register to check out it, so they had to live under some philosophy - religious - to combat it)...African societies are still like this and the Islam was strongly like this, so the jews, hence the name relation.

[Hethrir]

Maybe it's like going to the fridge in the middle of the night and stubbing your toe and saying 'fuck'

I would have likened it to finishing building a PC and saying "Voila!" or "power!" when turning it on for the first time. Vocalising an action makes you part of it. Also, faith is the spoken word. In order to believe something, you have to read it, say it or something like that.

[Molyneux]

Maybe it's like going to the fridge in the middle of the night and stubbing your toe and saying 'fuck'

I would have likened it to finishing building a PC and saying "Voila!" or "power!" when turning it on for the first time. Vocalising an action makes you part of it. Also, faith is the spoken word. In order to believe something, you have to read it, say it or something like that.

To paraphrase some Discworld book or other - "words have power". We think in words, hence we tend to think that the world structures itself around words - and that without a word to tie it together, a concept cannot stand.