Shadow Spies in the Empire

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2002-12-02 11:18pm

How long can these cloaked figures go about the starwars universe, trying to bring it down from within before being detected?

I'm thinking not very long, either a bio scanner is going to pick them up, or a droid with special optics (so many in SW)

But some think other wise, and say that they are extremely hard to detect,

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-02 11:19pm

Shadow as in B5? Sooner or later some Force-user is gonna pick them up.

Or if the SW do some full-spectrum scan like Sheridan did, they'll pick up the Shadows too.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-02 11:22pm

Elaboration please?

About the Shadows I mean.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-03 12:26am

Remember that Imperial Intel had agents and spying droids on every ship, even the pissant Carrack at Bakurra. Then factor in that they have the Inquisitors.

Morden would have to stay on the move, but I doubt he would be truely effective (the loss of a Grand Admiral didn't do a whole heck of alot), and he would be pursued in short order.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-03 12:42am

Also Shadows infuenced people in great power... Who would that be in SW besides Palpy and Anakin?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-03 12:55am

Crown wrote:Also Shadows infuenced people in great power... Who would that be in SW besides Palpy and Anakin?

Tarkin? Some of the other commanders? Thrawn?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-12-03 06:27pm

Omega-13 wrote:How long can these cloaked figures go about the starwars universe, trying to bring it down from within before being detected?

I'm thinking not very long, either a bio scanner is going to pick them up, or a droid with special optics (so many in SW)

But some think other wise, and say that they are extremely hard to detect,

If they were the same kind of snarling bad guys Mr. Morden
always was, they'd never get close to anyone with influence
within the Empire.

Think about it. How is some creepy guy going to approach
a high-ranking military officer onboard an Imperial starbase
or Imperial warship? Is he simply going to WALK into Tarkin,
Thrawn, or Vader's quarters?

Not bloody likely.

The best the Shadow lackeys could probably do is mess
with the minds of small-scale gangsters, like the Hutts.
It's possible a Morden-type could get close to Jabba, for
instance, though how long he'd last at J's court is anyone's
guess (I seem to recall most humans in Jabba's palace
were on chains or were served as food...could be wrong there,
though).

Getting close to Palpatine, let alone even on BOARD ANY
Imperial warship, is a totally ridiculous proposition.

Besides, the whole thing is a cheap cop-out some people
cooked up to avoid the direct pounding the Shadows would
take at the hands of the Empire, something we CAN readily
measure.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-12-03 07:08pm

I agree with the previously stated comments about how the shadows would never be able to get one of their agents on board any imperial ship. However, I think they could open up a very lucrative business on the fringe worlds.

However, upon further thought I don't think it's absolutely impossible for any shadow agents to get close to high ranking imperials. Some of the technology used by the army described in the third book of the technomage trilogy would no doubt be of use to at least some Imperial officer.

While I haven't actually done any calcs on the plasma beam of the plasma weapon the army was supposed to use, I'm guessing that it's somewhere within the blaster range of fire power. I'm not sure though, it's been a while since I've read that chapter...mostly because I lost the book. But I'll go looking for it later.

Well anyways I say taht it would be of interest to some imperials, or at the very least some half assed crime lord is that unlike blasters, it's a continuous beam, so it could be swept on to a target.

So IF the imperials show any interest in acquiring any shadow tech, there's the possibilty that they could at *try* to corrupt a high ranking official

The emperor would probably like to acquire the plague, but the shadows would more likely than not try to use it against him since they know they can't beat the imperials in space.

So while the imperials might show some interest in some select pieces of shadow tech, The majority of the shadow tech will really only be useful on the rimworlds if a war lord wants some nice new toys.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-03 09:26pm

Keep in mind that most of the chaos created by the Shadows was a result of asking people what they wanted and delivering it. While the Shadows might have some capabilities to ask SW people 'what do you want,' the fact that Shadow ships would be nothing more than target practice for SW technology means that the Shadows would ve very much unable to deliver. It really doesn't matter how long the Shadows run around because their ability to committ major acts of chaos would be extremely limited at best.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-04 12:08am

The shadows wouldn't try to go right to the top. Thats not how they work. They go in the back door. But given the empire being badass, I doubt the shadows would have much problem with openly cozying up to the empire. The shadows were about chaos and evolution through conflict, not domination (except in the end). They would love the empire. They'd befriend the empire, learn as much as possible, and set out to fuck with people back here in our little galaxy.

But, hypothetically, if the shadows wanted to infiltrate the empire, they'd start small. first theyd capture a few random people, preferably young. then theyd make them their slaves like Mr Morden. Because theyre young, they can enroll in the imperial navy. The shadows would see to it that the chosen person or persons rise through the ranks and eventually becomes captain of a ship or even an admiral or something. once they have high enough pawns, they can have their minions introduce the shadows to real higher ups, offering favors and the usual (granted, the technology isnt up to snuff, but the ability to bypass shielding and get right into a planet under the shield would be a great advantage). They could wreak havoc, and upset the balance of whatever. Eventually the emperor would die, the sith would vanish, and all thats left are the admirals, who just happen to be shaddow puppets.

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2002-12-04 12:51am

kojikun wrote:But, hypothetically, if the shadows wanted to infiltrate the empire, they'd start small. first theyd capture a few random people, preferably young. then theyd make them their slaves like Mr Morden. Because theyre young, they can enroll in the imperial navy.

agreed, besth method

The shadows would see to it that the chosen person or persons rise through the ranks and eventually becomes captain of a ship or even an admiral or something.

problem here is getting them into the navy and having them pass all the tests, including bio-scans which can detect foreign objects in a person, aswell as an advanced screening procecss (they are also looking for rebel spies, and they find a lot of them : ROTJ for instance)

once they have high enough pawns, they can have their minions introduce the shadows to real higher ups, offering favors and the usual (granted, the technology isnt up to snuff, but the ability to bypass shielding and get right into a planet under the shield would be a great advantage). They could wreak havoc, and upset the balance of whatever. Eventually the emperor would die, the sith would vanish, and all thats left are the admirals, who just happen to be shaddow puppets.[/quote]

The Emperor might know something is up, considering he gives force energy to his military,...
so honestly, i don't think the plan is possible, considering the emperor can feel each and everyone of his men.
[/quote]

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-04 01:01am

I like Morden. He's cool. What do you want?

Although him asking Vader that would be most amusing

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-04 09:47am

Shadows dont have to stick something in your brain to make your theirs. If I'm not mistaken, shadows are all, in part, telepathic so they can mess with your mind easilly.

And as for the emperor emparting force power onto the navy.. i dont know about that.if you use absolute canon for both then it would be difficult to claim this.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-04 09:51am

Except that it's not limited to absolute canon.

Although I never was too keen on the idea personally ...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-04 10:09am

Enlightenment wrote:Keep in mind that most of the chaos created by the Shadows was a result of asking people what they wanted and delivering it. While the Shadows might have some capabilities to ask SW people 'what do you want,' the fact that Shadow ships would be nothing more than target practice for SW technology means that the Shadows would ve very much unable to deliver. It really doesn't matter how long the Shadows run around because their ability to committ major acts of chaos would be extremely limited at best.

You know that this thread should really have stoped after Enlightenment's post.

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