Apollo (oBSG) vs Mal (Firefly/Serenity) vs Han (SW)

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2005-11-22 02:25am

In a quick draw competition who wins? (Or anyone else you would like to ad in a popular sci-fi series setting.)

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2005-11-22 02:26am

Wrong forum, admin please move. Thanks.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-11-22 03:24am

Done. Personally I like Mal's chances.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2005-11-22 04:29am

I don't think Solo actually did a quickdraw in the films?

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-11-22 04:33am

GuppyShark wrote:I don't think Solo actually did a quickdraw in the films?

He managed to get a shot off at a Sith Lord, despite having zero prior warning that there was anything was wrong. Not that it did him any good.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2005-11-22 04:33am

Mal. he is quick to shoot first and ask questions later.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-11-22 04:43am

Han is walking towards the door with Lando and friends, thinking he's simply on his way to dinner. On the other side of the door is Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, whose powers include precognition and telekinesis. When Han walks into the room, Vader pulls Han's pistol away. But not before Han has brought it up and capped off a shot at him.

Instantly going from a complete non-combat situation to getting off a shot at a precog is no small matter. That said, I'm totally unfamiliar with the other characters, so someone might want to post details about them.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2005-11-22 07:26am

Mal consistently draws his weapon in the <1 second area when he's prepared.Examples are when he outdraws the Operative in Serenity, I can't think of any from Firefly off the top of my head.. Han is in the the same category there, such as when he shoots Greedo.

They're both the same when they're surprised.

And since I don't know anything about Apollo I say its between Mal and Han who's the most accurate with their pistol.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2005-11-22 08:05am

I've only seen Apollo actually draw a weapon (as opposed to already having it out) once, on Col. Tigh, and that was pretty slowly.

Turin · Post by **Turin** » 2005-11-22 10:28am

Saithis: Han actually manages to get off more than one shot in that scene where he quick draws on Vader. I believe it's two, but I haven't seen the film in a couple of weeks... I'm remembering the sound well but Vader's deflecting the blaster bolts so there's a richochet sound there too.

Xess wrote:Han is in the the same category there, such as when he shoots Greedo.

But that was actually a slooow draw. He slowly readies his pistol and then fires under the table.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2005-11-22 10:42am

Metrion Cascade wrote:I've only seen Apollo actually draw a weapon (as opposed to already having it out) once, on Col. Tigh, and that was pretty slowly.

From the original, not the new. The show down with the cylon "red eye"

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-11-22 10:53am

Han's quick draw scenario is his biggest moment. Though the fact that he got a second shot off isn't too big as no one was really trying to stop him. Both shots were on an extremely large target.

Mal on the other hand, in the very beginning, shoots the law man right in the head from his quick draw. (as evidenced by the guy's head pulling back and the fact that he was using River as a shield).

So I'd say Han and Mal are about as fast as one another, but Mal is more accurate.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-22 10:58am

Solo was shooting at a guy on the other side of a long table and doing so accurately. If we draw in the "Han Solo" series of books by Brian Daley, Solo has a reputation as a gunman before ANH. A professional gunman recognizes his name as a fellow bad ass and looks forward to fighting him (Uhl-Rass-Rashan). In "Han Solo's Revenge" he is confident enough to match his skills against a professional gunslinger and it is only after a display of extreme speed and marksmanship that Han realizes he's outmatched.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-11-22 11:21am

LordShaithis wrote:Han is walking towards the door with Lando and friends, thinking he's simply on his way to dinner. On the other side of the door is Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, whose powers include precognition and telekinesis. When Han walks into the room, Vader pulls Han's pistol away. But not before Han has brought it up and capped off a shot at him.

Instantly going from a complete non-combat situation to getting off a shot at a precog is no small matter. That said, I'm totally unfamiliar with the other characters, so someone might want to post details about them.

While the speed is admirable, Vader's various powers have bugger all effect on Han's perfomance. He could be a cardboard cut-out and Han's performace would be the same.

Anyhoo Mal has consistant accuracy and speed through out Firefly an Serenity. In the film aloe we see consistant long range accuracy when:
First when he shoots the guy beig eaten by reaver from the mule, and secondly when he shoot the survivor of the Alliance ship that Book shot down.

Thirdly in the quick draw constest with the operative, he exceptionally quick off the mark.

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2005-11-22 11:55am

Crazedwraith wrote:
LordShaithis wrote:Han is walking towards the door with Lando and friends, thinking he's simply on his way to dinner. On the other side of the door is Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, whose powers include precognition and telekinesis. When Han walks into the room, Vader pulls Han's pistol away. But not before Han has brought it up and capped off a shot at him.

Instantly going from a complete non-combat situation to getting off a shot at a precog is no small matter. That said, I'm totally unfamiliar with the other characters, so someone might want to post details about them.
While the speed is admirable, Vader's various powers have bugger all effect on Han's perfomance. He could be a cardboard cut-out and Han's performace would be the same.

Anyhoo Mal has consistant accuracy and speed through out Firefly an Serenity. In the film aloe we see consistant long range accuracy when:
First when he shoots the guy beig eaten by reaver from the mule, and secondly when he shoot the survivor of the Alliance ship that Book shot down.

Thirdly in the quick draw constest with the operative, he exceptionally quick off the mark.

I'm not doubting Han's quickdraw abilities, but I always thought that Vader knew Han would draw and let him just to show them how fucked they were.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-11-22 11:56am

Just took a quick look at an outline for the Firefly class ship and doing some off the handle calcs give me the Cargo bay being between 12 to 16 meters long. We'll go with the average of 14.

Serenity is 190 feet long. In case you can't read the bottom numbers there.

Anyway, taking a look at the shot Mal takes in the openner, 'Serenity'. The law man is just about under the catwalks, maybe 3 meters from the door to the infirmary section of the ship. Mal takes his shot as he is stepping into the cargo area from the Air lock. So he had a headshot from a quickdraw at about 9-10 meters out. A distance I think is further than that of Han when he shot at Vader.[/url]

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-22 12:10pm

Captain Cyran wrote: Anyway, taking a look at the shot Mal takes in the openner, 'Serenity'. The law man is just about under the catwalks, maybe 3 meters from the door to the infirmary section of the ship. Mal takes his shot as he is stepping into the cargo area from the Air lock. So he had a headshot from a quickdraw at about 9-10 meters out. A distance I think is further than that of Han when he shot at Vader.[/url][/i]

It's been a while since I saw ESB, but that seems to be about the same distance. Vader is at the other side of a long table. In any case, it doesn't prove any superiority by Mal. It proves he's deadly with a pistol and fast within a 10 meters, which no one is contesting. We have ample evidence that Solo is also deadly within a similar range.

Now, Mal is a tough son of a bitch as anyone who has seen Serenity can attest, but Solo's blaster packs more of a punch so I would give Solo the edge in firepower, but that doesn't mean much considering how good of a shot Mal is.

Fortunately for them, they would probably come up with some kind of crooked scheme to make them both money if they actually met.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-11-22 12:27pm

As for oBSG Apollo, he was NOT the quickdraw of the show. Starbuck was, and there was an episode where Starbuck had to have a showdown with a reprogramed Cylon. (Hero won, of course)

Considering the size of the Colonial pistols of that time (larger than Luke's blaster), Starbuck would have a problem clearing his holster before Han and Mal got their smaller, lighter pistols out. So, BSG is out of the running, unless someone wants to find something from neoBSG to compare.

Han vs Mal would be interesting. Both have military backgrounds, although Han simply went thru Imperial training, never serving. Mal is a veteran "Browncoat" and seems to have found on ground as well as space missions.

Both have been playing the wrong side of the law for their living, but Han's less likely to kill.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-11-22 12:46pm

[quote="Imperial Overlord"It's been a while since I saw ESB, but that seems to be about the same distance. Vader is at the other side of a long table. In any case, it doesn't prove any superiority by Mal. It proves he's deadly with a pistol and fast within a 10 meters, which no one is contesting. We have ample evidence that Solo is also deadly within a similar range.

Now, Mal is a tough son of a bitch as anyone who has seen Serenity can attest, but Solo's blaster packs more of a punch so I would give Solo the edge in firepower, but that doesn't mean much considering how good of a shot Mal is.

Fortunately for them, they would probably come up with some kind of crooked scheme to make them both money if they actually met.

[/quote]
I assure you that Han Solo was not standing 9-10 meters from Vader when he shot at him. The rooms wasn't even close to that big.

Besides, firepower doesn't matter. Han Solo doesn't wear body armor, so his overpowered blaster won't matter much if Mal ventilates his chest cavity first. It matters who actually shots first, and frankly, Mal is a faster draw and most likely a better shot. Hitting someone in the head from a quickdraw from nearly 30 feet isn't exactly a small feat.

It's not like it's actually a suprise. Keep in mind that Mal went from being an infantryman to a space cowboy, while Han Solo was IIRC in the Navy before he became a smuggler. Mal is no Spike Spiegel, but he's very likely shot at things a bit more than Han has.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-22 12:52pm

The distance was at least six meters and firepower does matter. Mal shooting Solo in the lung isn't going to stop Solo from shooting and one shot fry Solo's blaster fried Greedo.

You haven't even come close to showing that Mal is faster or a better shot. You've just claimed that a long table in a dining room isn't ten meters long.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-11-22 02:22pm

I'd have to give this to Mal, to be honest. Yes, Solo drew his weapon and got a shot off at Vader, but he also got another 2 or 3 shots off. I've always thought it was clear that Vader was just toying with him, not that Solo was a faster draw than Vader's precognition advance warning time. Solo's a good shot without question, but I haven't really seen an example of a really fast draw from him.

Mal has shown himself to be an expert marksman from the hip. He scored a head shot on the Alliance fed without any aiming adjustment, and he showed himself to be a quick draw in Serenity against the Operative.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-11-22 02:35pm

LadyTevar wrote:As for oBSG Apollo, he was NOT the quickdraw of the show. Starbuck was, and there was an episode where Starbuck had to have a showdown with a reprogramed Cylon. (Hero won, of course)

Nope, that was Apollo. It was the episode where he crashed on one of the cowboy planets.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-11-22 03:55pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:As for oBSG Apollo, he was NOT the quickdraw of the show. Starbuck was, and there was an episode where Starbuck had to have a showdown with a reprogramed Cylon. (Hero won, of course)
Nope, that was Apollo. It was the episode where he crashed on one of the cowboy planets.

No, it was Starbuck, because he'd won the gold star that made him the Sheriff of the town, and therefore the one that had to stand up to "Ol' RedEye', the head thug of the local 'cattle baron'.

Of course, it's been near 30 years since I've seen it, so maybe Apollo did take the star from Starbuck.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-22 04:46pm

Mal is good, I'm not denying it but the fact that Solo was shooting at six meters doesn't mean he would have missed the target at ten. His skill as a gunman is elaborated on in Daley's series and I'm inclined to believe that he is very, very good. With the blaster's superior firepower I tend to give him the edge, but in my opinion it's a close contest.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2005-11-22 06:23pm

Apollo has no chance. I'm of the opinion that Han, in his prime circa ESB, is faster. He's filed down the front sight of his blaster to give him a faster draw, and as mentioned in the the Daley books, he's only been bested by a professional gunman. However, it would be neat to see him and Mal draw down on each other.