Degrees of wankage (Crimson Empire spoilers)

[Edward Yee]

Is it really "fanwank" if there is an upper limit set in addition to the high 'lower' limit, to give at least an upper range of where the object thereof stands?

(For example, Crimson Empire shows a particularly effective Royal Guardsman -- whoops stormtrooper ass, actually shoots down a TIE Interceptor with a hand blaster, outsmarts the crew of the Emperor's Revenge -- but it is established that he's but a survivor; his comrades were pwned by Vader, Luke Skywalker and finally by hordes of stormtroopers, as many as it took to bring the Royal Guards down, and the facial scar is from getting pwned by Vader.)

[Manus Celer Dei]

shoots down a TIE Interceptor with a hand blaster

That doesn't really sound like wank. Just extremely stupid.

[Sephirius]

I figured the tie fighter thing was more luck than wank.



also, his other abilities didn't seem like wank, I mean, the guy is a force adept, probably on par with some of the old republic Jedi Knights...

[Jack Bauer]

Are we talking about Kir Kanos?

[Tiriol]

I figured the tie fighter thing was more luck than wank.



also, his other abilities didn't seem like wank, I mean, the guy is a force adept, probably on par with some of the old republic Jedi Knights...

I agree on TIE Interceptor part. But where has it been noted that Kir Kanos would be a Force adept or even Force-sensitive? Lord Carnor Jax was adept in the ways of the Force (New Essential Guide to Characters even notes that likely Shira Brie - our Lady Darth Lumiya - trained him) but so far as I recall, Kir Kanos was not.

[Edward Yee]

Specifically, despite having only a hand blaster and TIE transparisteel windows being used for cover in the novels, in the comic (and hence prolly not checking with one another) Kir Kanos was indeed able to shoot his hand blaster at the viewport, hit and the beam actually punched through -- killing the pilot.

I was wondering if Kir Kanos was wanked in any way, considering that at least on three occasions an upper limit is set on who pwned him.

Honestly, the only source I know re: Kir Kanos and Force adept is the WOTC Star Wars RPG free adventure Nightsaber, where he had a few levels of it. Then again, this build included Thug levels, since statistically a stormtrooper (the source of Royal Guard candidates) are Thugs...

[Ghost Rider]

Specifically, despite having only a hand blaster and TIE transparisteel windows being used for cover in the novels, in the comic (and hence prolly not checking with one another) Kir Kanos was indeed able to shoot his hand blaster at the viewport, hit and the beam actually punched through -- killing the pilot.

He has a blaster strong enough for the job and given the range he did it at, is not enough to go "It's wank!".

I was wondering if Kir Kanos was wanked in any way, considering that at least on three occasions an upper limit is set on who pwned him.

Honestly, the only source I know re: Kir Kanos and Force adept is the WOTC Star Wars RPG free adventure Nightsaber, where he had a few levels of it. Then again, this build included Thug levels, since statistically a stormtrooper (the source of Royal Guard candidates) are Thugs...

You do understand that upper and lower limits are measure that are used as the thought of maximum and minimums it take for a transfer to occur, correct?

Using this applied to a person is silly unless you are talking about specfic actions.

[Edward Yee]

You do understand that upper and lower limits are measure that are used as the thought of maximum and minimums it take for a transfer to occur, correct?

Using this applied to a person is silly unless you are talking about specfic actions.

I did not know but now I do, so I concede the point. I meant to speculate on the level of wankage in stuff in Star Wars, considering for example the Royal Guards are elites, but CE shows that they can and are beaten.

To make this topic less Kir Kanos-specific, does anyone else have ruminations on the levels of wankage in Star Wars? (Yes, I remember the term "Wankatine" and the Galaxy Gun. )

[VT-16]

I only really disliked "Wankatine" and his Force-Storms. He's got a planet-shattering Star Dreadnought, yet goes around opening up storms in Hyperspace or something? WTF?

And the usual "Only Luke, Han and Leia out of all Rebel operatives can go on a top secret, galaxy-at-stake, guaranteed suicidal mission!!!11"

[General Soontir Fel]

And the usual "Only Luke, Han and Leia out of all Rebel operatives can go on a top secret, galaxy-at-stake, guaranteed suicidal mission!!!11"

And Kyle Katarn.

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

Wookies. I remember in one of the Wraith sqad books it talks about how a normal human, no matter how well trained, would lose in a fight with one. Yet we see on several occasions a Noghri using simple leverage/joint manipulation techniques to incapacitate one. I see no reason a normal human couldn't use the same techniques. Then in TTT they talk about wookies guarding the entrance to the Coruscant defense command center, and how no one, not even a determined military force, would be able to get past these two wookie. I don't mind the idea of wookies being strong, feirce fighters. Invincible however I don't like.

[The Grim Squeaker]

And Kyle Katarn.

Bt Katarn is cool, and not as dull as the ridicolous "time and time agains" rebel family stories

[Stark]

Katarn is FEARSOME wanked. I don't know why he doesn't bother all the 'zomg better than LUek!' purists. I find his character (to say nothing of his origin as a faceless Doom-avatar) more offensive than ... that EU guy that's BETETR T3HN LUEK and stole the Starwanker. But I've never read those books.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Wookies. I remember in one of the Wraith sqad books it talks about how a normal human, no matter how well trained, would lose in a fight with one.

Since SDN has no problems with the idea that a human has just about no chance unarmed against say a gorilla in combat, that shouldn't be the problem.

Yet we see on several occasions a Noghri using simple leverage/joint manipulation techniques to incapacitate one.

Perhaps that just means their speed and strength is also above human norm, so at least skill comes into play?

Then in TTT they talk about wookies guarding the entrance to the Coruscant defense command center, and how no one, not even a determined military force, would be able to get past these two wookie. I don't mind the idea of wookies being strong, feirce fighters. Invincible however I don't like.

Let's test this theory with gas masked trooopers hitting the Wookiees with poison gas or thermal detonators

[Vympel]

Katarn is FEARSOME wanked. I don't know why he doesn't bother all the 'zomg better than LUek!' purists. I find his character (to say nothing of his origin as a faceless Doom-avatar) more offensive than ... that EU guy that's BETETR T3HN LUEK and stole the Starwanker. But I've never read those books.

Kyle Katarn was never a faceless avatar- the original Dark Forces featured his face in a cutscene- the only difference between that face and later versions was that he had no goatee (because he was younger then of course).

And there is no EU guy better than Luke. KJA can go fuck himself.

[The Grim Squeaker]

And there is no EU guy better than Luke. KJA can go fuck himself.

I don't understand the problem with a Jedi with almost as much experience as Luke and who has tapped into a massive power locus being a better fighter than Luke (Weaponsmaster of the NJO).
Luke might be better at non combat skills same as Yoda but Kyle is apparently a better straight up fighter, (As Windu was), doesn't mean he would beat Luke in a no holds barred fight, the games cut scenes seem to make Luke out as more dangerous over all even if in game:
Kyle boss>Kyle tutor>Desann>Luke>Tavion(New)>Tavion (old)

[Stark]

Kyle Katarn was never a faceless avatar- the original Dark Forces featured his face in a cutscene- the only difference between that face and later versions was that he had no goatee (because he was younger then of course).

Really? I remember there being brooding, enourmous-chested art associated with Katarn in DF, but I don't remember any of the cutscenes at all. Were they engine-cutscenes, or animated like TIE Fighters?

A remember playing JA and thinking 'well, killing god must make you a hell of a lot thinner'.

[Chris OFarrell]

No. World Devatators are wank.

Huge glorified factories which somehow are able to defeat line warships in slugfests. Then spit out droid fighters which are now completly leathal to human pilots...planatery defence ion cannons don't even annoy them...

Then later fighter squadrons attacking them manage to punch through and cause damange, but Star Destroyers still can't. I mean it just boggles the mind. The Imperials didn;t have a large fleet screening the World Devestators and the NR fleet came out of hyperspace all guns blazing, taking out many of the ships including the Alleigence.

Then the World Devestators activate their OMG Ti3 Dr0n3s and the Rebel fleet is cut appart. Then instead of doing something like calling for reinforcements and concentrating firepower, Mon Mothma declares their only hope is to find Skywalker and use his '1337 jedi powers' to somehow pull a victory.

It's just....ARG.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

No. World Devatators are wank.

Huge glorified factories which somehow are able to defeat line warships in slugfests. Then spit out droid fighters which are now completly leathal to human pilots...planatery defence ion cannons don't even annoy them...

I don't know the details. But the MCs are also merely glorified space liners according to the EU. Are the planetary defence ion cannons even hitting the fighters?

Compared to the Galaxy Gun, the WD is an eminently practical concept.

[Lord Poe]

Luke might be better at non combat skills same as Yoda but Kyle is apparently a better straight up fighter, (As Windu was), doesn't mean he would beat Luke in a no holds barred fight,

No, not Kyle. Corran (Mary Sue) HORN can beat Luke n a no holds barred fight. (I, Jedi)

[Vympel]

Really? I remember there being brooding, enourmous-chested art associated with Katarn in DF, but I don't remember any of the cutscenes at all. Were they engine-cutscenes, or animated like TIE Fighters?

Animated- the art you're thinking about is from one of the cutscenes, its practically the only one I can remember as well. It's a mission briefing or something.

A remember playing JA and thinking 'well, killing god must make you a hell of a lot thinner'.

Well the thin-ness started with DF2: JK, since they used an actor for that.

[Chris OFarrell]

No. World Devatators are wank.

Huge glorified factories which somehow are able to defeat line warships in slugfests. Then spit out droid fighters which are now completly leathal to human pilots...planatery defence ion cannons don't even annoy them...

I don't know the details. But the MCs are also merely glorified space liners according to the EU.

I thought this had been debunked. But anyway that was probably only the very first generation of MC warships, not these modern ships. And it's not just MC ships, there are also Star Destroyers and others ships weighing into the battle.

Are the planetary defence ion cannons even hitting the fighters?

No I meant the WD's. Given that said cannons can knock out a full blown Star Destroyer, knocking out a giant space factory shouldn't be THAT hard.

Compared to the Galaxy Gun, the WD is an eminently practical concept.

As far as it goes, yes. It's basicly a space mobile upsized construction droid when you get down to it. But Construction droids would last about fifteen seconds against AT-AT's. The things can't possibly have room for huge reactor spaces given how much space the factories must take up inside and the largest one is only a little over twice the length of an ISD.

But they are frigen impossible to destroy via conventional means, THAT is what makes them wank. If they needed to be carefuly protected with fleets of ships or something, well thats one thing. But the other...

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

Let's test this theory with gas masked trooopers hitting the Wookiees with poison gas or thermal detonators.

That's what I'm talking about. The other points could be argued, but this is just sad. Zahn specifically says that these Wookie are one of the last lines of defense for the NR leadership. After them it's just some transparisteel(sp) doors. Yet thes Wookie are such a threat that no sentient would even contemplate attacking them. I mean come on that's just stupid. Any clandestine paramilitary unit worth their salt ought to be able to tear through a Wookie or two without too much trouble. Blaster bolts to the head kill Wookies just like everyone else.

[Chris OFarrell]

Funny thing, I just checked my copy of The Last Command where Leia enters Courscant’s planetary defense command centre and when she passes between the Wookiee guards....and it says absolutely nothing about them being indestructible killing machines.

ALL it says is:

“Leia cleared herself through at the duty station, passed between a towering pair of Wookiee guards, and stepped through the blast doors into the war room”.

And in reference to the Noghri V Wookiees, the Noghri can’t come close to matching a Wookiees strength and they are *much* stronger then the average human. The techniques we saw them use against the Wookiees in the Thrawn Trilogy were purely defensive and Leia IIRC thought to herself that they were not going to work a second time when one of the Noghri managed to send Chewie flying across the room and he got right back up.

That said, Shalla in Wraith Squadron was so competent in HTH combat that she was able to convince a senior Imperial HTH combat specialist that she actually had a chance.

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

Funny thing, I just checked my copy of The Last Command where Leia enters Courscant’s planetary defense command centre and when she passes between the Wookiee guards....and it says absolutely nothing about them being indestructible killing machines.

ALL it says is:

“Leia cleared herself through at the duty station, passed between a towering pair of Wookiee guards, and stepped through the blast doors into the war room”.

Dang coulda sworn there was more. Ah well conceded, and I apologize for wasting anyones time on this. Thanks though, teach me to shoot off my mouth when I can't find my copy.